Curse

Avison · Mar 01, 2011, 09:52 AM // 09:52

I've been exploring the relationship of lifesteals armor ignoring damage and an increased attack speed modifier. I was originally trying to combine Avatar of Grenth, Grenth's Aura, and a handful of IAS's to create a super sexy life stealing fast attacking Grenth lookalike monstrausity.

I more recently have been trying Onslaught with Grenth's Aura while combining it with with Mystic Vigor.

The results, for pvp so far, have been me being more or less unkillable by three players all focusing on me.

After experimenting with Grenth's Aura, Onslaught, and Mystic Vigor I'm quite satisfied with the combo. The amount of damage on average dealt to opponents is superior to an Avatar of Grenth and Grenth's Aura build. Mostly because recasting flash enchantments doesn't stop your melee animation early, the only thing you need to worry about is applying Mystic Vigor. I can usually protect Mystic Vigor by dropping a Shield of Force and casting when my opponent is on the ground.

As for pvp, in RA and Jade Quarry I've been using the rest of my slots for different utility. The quarry needs me to be a wee bit faster that 25% to tag the point in the beginning so sometimes I slot a skill just for that. I also need cripple for utility. In addition, I am a Dervish, so I should be taking out archer spawns and capping them while harassing players and carriers... so I needed some aoe as an initial burst when hitting archer spawns.

So far I've been running this in the quarry:
OgCkkmq86wmDCu7rt/ue7070l9C

With:
Scythe Mastery 9+1
Earth Prayers 3+1
Mysticism 9+2
Wind Prayers 12

And full Wind Walkers.

It isn't nearly as efficient as it could be, the runes are just what I happened to have, and almost everything in that build is selective utility for the Jade Quarry as the basic combo more or less covers damage and healing. One problem I've had is killing my opponents but dying after from degeneration, so I threw a Mystic Regeneration in there just for that.

FoxBat · Mar 01, 2011, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avison

The amount of damage on average dealt to opponents is superior to an Avatar of Grenth and Grenth's Aura build. Mostly because recasting flash enchantments doesn't stop your melee animation early, the only thing you need to worry about is applying Mystic Vigor. I can usually protect Mystic Vigor by dropping a Shield of Force and casting when my opponent is on the ground.

What non-flash enchantment are you running on an avatar of grenth bar? None of the meta ones use any, including mystic vigor.

With avatar of grenth your damage demonstrably increases, and with heart of fury + harriers haste you have nearly the same effect as onslaught, plus even more damage from harriers. The healing from grenth can also replace mystic vigor so you don't even need to spend time recasting it.

thetwistedboy · Mar 02, 2011, 05:47 AM // 05:47

I support the idea of experimentation, especially when it leads away from the Meta. The Meta is created by those who are unorthodox and decide to try new things. Case in point, EFGjack. He decided to not use three necros and his team is quite frankly better than Sabway/Discordway/Spiritway. So stamping out new things doesn't actually help anything. Besides, if his build isn't as effective as the Meta one with AoG, then he will realize that. He was asking for suggestions to improve, I believe, not criticism for deciding to not be a sheep.

FoxBat · Mar 02, 2011, 08:15 AM // 08:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetwistedboy

Besides, if his build isn't as effective as the Meta one with AoG, then he will realize that. He was asking for suggestions to improve, I believe, not criticism for deciding to not be a sheep.

Actually, he didn't ask for anything, he outright said that Onslaught + Grenth's Aura was better than Grenth's Avatar + Grenth's Aura on specious or else not fully detailed reasoning, and he's played the new build and likes it better, so it's not clear whether he'd "figure it out" on his own. I didn't say "don't make an onslaught build", I said "don't claim its superior to Grenth's with faulty reasoning."

Avison · Mar 02, 2011, 09:10 AM // 09:10

I've been mainly using this for Jade Quarry and Onslaught was nice for bar compression and never needing to cast an Avatar meant I could bring more utility for the insane crap people bring there.

But yes, I was more or less asking for a way to improve this build. The basic concept was there but I'm not fully aware of the available skill base as I've only restarted playing after I left sometime after Nightfall. All in all, from what I've seen and done, I've had no trouble diving into a lord pit or capping spawns on the quarry while taking fire from 3 players and 4 or 5 npcs.

That in and off itself seems nerf worthy. I guess there is a reason why half the players I see these days are Dervishes.

Kyp Jade · Mar 02, 2011, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Half of the players you see are playing dervish because of the update, its new. Same with the rit and mesmer update. Once the newness dies off only the people who really like the changes will stick with it. But since dervish is more fun than mesmer and rits since its a melee/support class now, I suspect a lot of people will stick with it.

I still see too many damn ritualists

Chthon · Mar 02, 2011, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetwistedboy

I support the idea of experimentation, especially when it leads away from the Meta. The Meta is created by those who are unorthodox and decide to try new things. Case in point, EFGjack. He decided to not use three necros and his team is quite frankly better than Sabway/Discordway/Spiritway. So stamping out new things doesn't actually help anything. Besides, if his build isn't as effective as the Meta one with AoG, then he will realize that. He was asking for suggestions to improve, I believe, not criticism for deciding to not be a sheep.

EFGJack's H+H teams may be effective, but "unorthodox" they are not. It's just tank-n-spank, done really, really well.

Steps_Descending · Mar 02, 2011, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

EFGJack's H+H teams may be effective, but "unorthodox" they are not. It's just tank-n-spank, done really, really well.

MIght I ask what setup is that? I don't remember a setup that was proving "better" (at what discord is made to do) than discord. Save for spiritway and a tank'n'spank setup that was made for elite areas I think.

Xenomortis · Mar 02, 2011, 11:36 PM // 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steps_Descending

MIght I ask what setup is that? I don't remember a setup that was proving "better" (at what discord is made to do) than discord. Save for spiritway and a tank'n'spank setup that was made for elite areas I think.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/p...t10434178.html

If you think Discord is the pinnacle of hero setups when H/Hing or even 6hing then you have a fair bit to learn.
I myself would consider Discord a more "unorthodox" setup than what's given in that thread or anything I run myself.

As for AoG+GA vs Onslaught+GA, I want to see some solid numbers and reasoning over anecdotal arguments.

FoxBat · Mar 02, 2011, 11:44 PM // 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

As for AoG+GA vs Onslaught+GA, I want to see some solid numbers and reasoning over anecdotal arguments.

There isn't one? The OP has confessed he didn't take Onslaught for damage but for bar compression, to free up room for added "utility". That's hard to measure objectively.

Xenomortis · Mar 02, 2011, 11:58 PM // 23:58

Serves me right for not fully reading.

Jcpsr · Mar 03, 2011, 09:40 AM // 09:40

I found that in alot of PVE area's grenths aura causes my scythe attacks(at 15 points in scythe mastery) to do no dmg from physical attacks and only lifestealing instead.

Because of this I decided to not even put points into Scythe Mastery since its damage will negated anyways and instead load them all into Wind prayers and Mysticism along with putting "Flurry" into my bar since it doesnt reduce the dmg of lifesteals but increases attack speed to 33% without the need to charge adrenaline for "heart of fury" or use the elite skill "Onslaught".

With Avatar of Grenth and Grenth Aura + Vamp Scythe I do 44 life steal per hit and with flurry its a good attack speed. In addition my enchants cost barely any energy and I built my build into a tanking build based on enchants and rapid lifesteal attacks.

There is a big downside to this, it can be waste in a area's where foes have weaker armor like Faction Campaign VQs where your' better offer using a Vow of strength build.

Our Virus · Apr 16, 2011, 04:45 PM // 16:45

I prefer the OP's build because his elite (Onslaught) is being used instead of three other skills. Opens up the bar with 2 more skills. Plus, you get adrnl faster with onslaught or more skill spam. With the extra skillslots you can bring blocking skills; a dervish that can only be killed by squishy is lol, you will easily kill 4 of them first

thetwistedboy · Apr 16, 2011, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

EFGJack's H+H teams may be effective, but "unorthodox" they are not. It's just tank-n-spank, done really, really well.

I didn't say that the builds were unorthodox, I said that he decided to be. I haven't seen anyone else try to do what he's done and then risked be ridiculed by playing differently by sharing it.

In all honesty, his teams are pretty unorthodox because you don't see a warrior cornerblocking a mob while microing his heroes to kill everything in a couple seconds. Well, with that being said, it's more his play style that is unorthodox...

Axel Zinfandel · Apr 16, 2011, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetwistedboy

it's more his play style that is unorthodox...

If by this you mean Tank n Spank, than I don't know about that. Most people in Guild Wars I've seen nowadays swear by Tank n' Spank and ridicule you for doing anything else.

Me personally, I've never done it, loathe the idea of it, and do not TnS, because if I wanted to do that I would go play any MMO ever.

pingu666 · Apr 17, 2011, 05:49 PM // 17:49

ive been a warrior and asked to go "full tank" and during that dungeon only twice did people actully allow me to tank properly :/

Cuilan · Apr 17, 2011, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Next time point out the game's mechanics without the AI targets and how your group has minions+spirits+Ebon assassins. It's what I do and it almost always works if they don't get a simple "tank builds are worthless."

Mike Jack · Apr 17, 2011, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Not only that, most of the PuG "tanks" run Defy+Endure Pain with random tactic skills. This makes the AI target them even less because of high health and defense.