Curse

Gabs88 · May 12, 2011, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Just took a quick peak on it but does anyone have any good ideas for an Avatar of Dwayna imbagon variant?

I figure the normal imbagon with spear only deals minor damage anyhow so being able to push out major team healing at the same time as maintaining SY! easily keeping yourself alive (Earth Prayers block) and being able to easily clear Blind from yourself as well could make for a very potent build but haven't been able to work out the details just yet. Anyone got some good suggestions on bars?

loopysnoopy · May 12, 2011, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Asking for builds is a general NO NO NO!!!

But why don't you just make a build test it post it so we can see where you are going with it then we can give suggestions on the said build.

Calista Blackblood · May 12, 2011, 03:58 PM // 15:58

I have yet to see anything like this build so rather than close the thread,I'm going to let it stay open and see what the results are.

Tip:you really should throw your own build together and post it.

Gabs88 · May 12, 2011, 04:02 PM // 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calista Blackblood

Tip:you really should throw your own build together and post it.

Haven't been able to fill in all the skills in the right spot so figured that could do more harm then good if people used an unfinished build as reference. The 4 skills that are completely "obvious" to me might not match up with the ones someone else would be using.

loopysnoopy · May 12, 2011, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Since this has been left open, I've had time to do some build testing and keeping SY as a dervish is really easy compared to imba,d-slash 3 wacks of the scythe soon gets SY pumping.

My 1st test was with grenth which is really good fun but I then switch to the avatar you mention it works well not high damage but good dolid healing condition removal .

Well here's my test build it's no where near finished still needs tweaks regarding the tear down.

Skills as follows
1. Aura Slicer
2. Twin Moon Sweep
3.Heart of Fury
4.Dust Cloak
5.Conviction
6.Avatar of Dwayna
7. "Finish Him"
8. Save Yourselfs

Build Code
( OgGAQWgPXibZXEYvXxkxg )
Now we can have a proper discussion on the concept of your idea.

Gabs88 · May 12, 2011, 04:52 PM // 16:52

TBH I did think of a spear + shield based build in order to maintain it more easily at all times. Probably would have been a good idea note that down in first post

There is already multiple scythe wielding SY! + Dwayna Builds.

loopysnoopy · May 12, 2011, 04:56 PM // 16:56

The general concept of A imba/ SY spammer is protection but to have SY you need to be warrior secondry so lobbing a spear is a poor imitation of the power you could do. And the only other benefits a paragon has is his shouts.

EDIT: You are able to keep SY up while wielding a scythe permanently with only r4 in kurzick

FoxBat · May 12, 2011, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Avatar
FGJ!
Heart of Fury
SY!
Whirling Charge
Fleeting Stability
Mirage Cloak
Lyssa's Haste

Two possible specs:

13 wind/0 earth; party heals on demand. Do not use enchanting stick.

11 wind/9 earth, near constant blocking, use enchanting stick.

Energy is tight over time, swapping to zealous spear is a must.

The main downside of this build is the 25 seconds without adrenaline. Dark Fury or Infuriating Heat are needed in your team, although you could try swapping an enchant for Air of Superiority. Aside from that it plays pretty well.

Gabs88 · May 12, 2011, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by loopysnoopy

The general concept of A imba/ SY spammer is protection but to have SY you need to be warrior secondry so lobbing a spear is a poor imitation of the power you could do. And the only other benefits a paragon has is his shouts.

EDIT: You are able to keep SY up while wielding a scythe permanently with only r4 in kurzick

And given enough targets even less, but the point of an imbagon approach is to keep SY! up permanently without gaps. So the time it takes to run inbetween two groups can potentially result in a downtime which in turn can result in death.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

Avatar
FGJ!
Heart of Fury
SY!
Whirling Charge
Fleeting Stability
Mirage Cloak
Lyssa's Haste

Two possible specs:

13 wind/0 earth; party heals on demand. Do not use enchanting stick.

11 wind/9 earth, near constant blocking, use enchanting stick.

Energy is tight over time, swapping to zealous spear is a must.

The main downside of this build is the 25 seconds without adrenaline. Dark Fury or Infuriating Heat are needed in your team, although you could try swapping an enchant for Air of Superiority. Aside from that it plays pretty well.

Heart of Fury expends a few strikes for SY! though so using Pious Fury would probably be better for the teardown effect. Zealous Renewal is kindof a given in the build though, for the energy management problems.

loopysnoopy · May 12, 2011, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabs88

And given enough targets even less, but the point of an imbagon approach is to keep SY! up permanently without gaps. So the time it takes to run inbetween two groups can potentially result in a downtime which in turn can result in death.

If your running that far to get to another group even the imbagon will take a while to get up SY as a dervish in a balanced team of hero's you will find keeping SY is very easy when you are running to the next group.

But hey that's my reasoning to stay with scythe an imitation build will not keep SY up like imba can or even the d-slasher. Same go's with dervish why do you think there is so many SY spamming dervish's around?

Kunder · May 12, 2011, 05:31 PM // 17:31

This was one of the first builds I made when the derv update hit...

Avatar of Dwayna/Sand Shards/Balthazar's Rage/Zealous Renewal/Dust Cloak/Pious Fury/Whirling Charge/Save Yourselves.

FGJ is nice, but in practice since I run dark fury with this build it becomes mostly meaningless. Even without dark fury, once you get into the think of things an IASed scythe + Balthazar's Rage provides enough adren to keep SY going assuming a decent rank. Its a good general PvE build, especially great for pugging when you can't really trust your defense to crappy players but still want to put out a good amount of offense.

Run 14 Earth for the extra sand shards activation. Other stats are at the player's discretion. Outputs about 20 HP/s optimally, still vastly more than even the best party heal focused monk. You can get more if you run a better teardown than Pious Fury, but the lack of IAS then starts to eat into your SYing and blow shit uping, so its a tradeoff. Eremite's Attack is probably the best bet if you go this route (making up for lost adren easily if you are in a good position), but then your enchant stripping is closely tied to being in combat, trying to heal when not hitting something is limited to just Whirling Charge. Meh

FoxBat · May 12, 2011, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabs88

Heart of Fury expends a few strikes for SY! though so using Pious Fury would probably be better for the teardown effect. Zealous Renewal is kindof a given in the build though, for the energy management problems.

Zealous spear should cover it fine IMO, assuming you don't use pious fury exactly due to emanage problems. A 10r that must be toredown on 10r just doesn't synergize with lyssa's haste approach, you can do it for slightly better adrenaline but it will cost some heals.

_Aphotic_ · May 12, 2011, 09:05 PM // 21:05

The biggest advantage of a Dwayna Imba is the fact you can pump out NOT ONLY +100 armor, but +50 healing to the entire party in a reliable (if not constant) fashion as well. One of the reasons why Para Imba is almost always more effective than any other SY! spammer is positioning- they don't have to push/stand at the front of the fight; paras can guarantee EVERY party member is under the effects of SY! by simply re-positioning.

What I'm getting to is that you should try this more defensive-oriented build. It allows you to ram up the defensive with a Dervish and be potentially more effective defensively than a Paragon Imbagon. This build also allows you to consider the positioning factor- that you don't have to be at the frontline of every fight.

This build here:
OgGjomrJLTzXvXoXIYqXEYihxgA

Mysticism 12+1+2
Wind Prayers 9
Earth Prayers 9

Avatar of Dwayna (Elite)
Meditation
Lyssa's Haste
Whirling Charge
Fleeting Stability
Conviction
Pious Fury
Save Yourselves!

Equipment: Zealous Spear of *Anything but Enchanting*
Variants:
Replace Conviction with Eremite's Zeal if you run into energy problems.
Replace Conviction with Mystic Healing if anyone is running party wide enchantments (such as Aegis, Order of Pain, etc.)
Spec 9 Tactics instead of 9 Earth Prayers for Additional armor
Use more PvE-only skills

Usage:
Spam 1-2-3-4-5-6-7
Use 6 + 7 for more controllable party healing (and IAS)
Spam 8 (Duh)
6 makes you more durable than the Paragon Imbagon (condition removal + bonus from mysticism + +10 armor + 8 AL from shield = better than para)

IF you could use cons+blessings+sup rune of Mysticism, you could potentially increase Meditation's energy return to 5 (at 18 specced), allowing you to spam a lot more.

This build is strictly oriented more defensively than other Imba builds, making it less "imba'd" but better than a Paragon Imbagon with essentially a spammable "TNTF!".

SlappedYak · May 13, 2011, 09:07 AM // 09:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Aphotic_

This build here:
OgGjomrJLTzXvXoXIYqXEYihxgA

Mysticism 12+1+2
Wind Prayers 9
Earth Prayers 9

Avatar of Dwayna (Elite)
Meditation
Lyssa's Haste
Whirling Charge
Fleeting Stability
Conviction
Pious Fury
Save Yourselves!

Equipment: Zealous Spear of *Anything but Enchanting*
Variants:
Replace Conviction with Eremite's Zeal if you run into energy problems.
Replace Conviction with Mystic Healing if anyone is running party wide enchantments (such as Aegis, Order of Pain, etc.)
Spec 9 Tactics instead of 9 Earth Prayers for Additional armor
Use more PvE-only skills".

Really like the idea behind this build. Being a frontliner(/tank support I suppose, instead of actual tank

) can get a bit dull, especially in melee hating pve areas... Kind of a like a less offensive, but more reliable Orders D/N.

Thanks for posting it

can't wait to try it out!

Gabs88 · May 13, 2011, 03:14 PM // 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Aphotic_

The biggest advantage of a Dwayna Imba is the fact you can pump out NOT ONLY +100 armor, but +50 healing to the entire party in a reliable (if not constant) fashion as well. One of the reasons why Para Imba is almost always more effective than any other SY! spammer is positioning- they don't have to push/stand at the front of the fight; paras can guarantee EVERY party member is under the effects of SY! by simply re-positioning.

What I'm getting to is that you should try this more defensive-oriented build. It allows you to ram up the defensive with a Dervish and be potentially more effective defensively than a Paragon Imbagon. This build also allows you to consider the positioning factor- that you don't have to be at the frontline of every fight.

This build here:
OgGjomrJLTzXvXoXIYqXEYihxgA

Mysticism 12+1+2
Wind Prayers 9
Earth Prayers 9

Avatar of Dwayna (Elite)
Meditation
Lyssa's Haste
Whirling Charge
Fleeting Stability
Conviction
Pious Fury
Save Yourselves!

Equipment: Zealous Spear of *Anything but Enchanting*
Variants:
Replace Conviction with Eremite's Zeal if you run into energy problems.
Replace Conviction with Mystic Healing if anyone is running party wide enchantments (such as Aegis, Order of Pain, etc.)
Spec 9 Tactics instead of 9 Earth Prayers for Additional armor
Use more PvE-only skills

Usage:
Spam 1-2-3-4-5-6-7
Use 6 + 7 for more controllable party healing (and IAS)
Spam 8 (Duh)
6 makes you more durable than the Paragon Imbagon (condition removal + bonus from mysticism + +10 armor + 8 AL from shield = better than para)

IF you could use cons+blessings+sup rune of Mysticism, you could potentially increase Meditation's energy return to 5 (at 18 specced), allowing you to spam a lot more.

This build is strictly oriented more defensively than other Imba builds, making it less "imba'd" but better than a Paragon Imbagon with essentially a spammable "TNTF!".

Don't have time to properly test it right now but this is definitely along the lines of what I was looking for. Did a very quick test against mr. master of damage on battle islands showing that using a spear the adrenaline for SY! would charge in 7 seconds. But that's while taking zero damage! If you taken even just a little, it will charge in 6 seconds of less easily enabling you to keep it up 100% at R10+. Team heal spamming is also solid. That said energy management seemed very solid even without Meditation. So that one can definitely be removed and replaced with a better option, presuming there is one ofc xD (Probably should be because meditation has aftercast delay)

A short second after that I came up with this bar: Energy management is 100% solid unless facing energy denial and you have Zealous Renewal to cope with that. The highlight would be the 8\10 second uptime on 50% block which again adds even more to your self protection on top of hex removal and heals.

OgGjomrJLT8FjbihkbIYqXEYvXA

Nevermind the bonetti's defence, using a PVP character to test so thats just a 8 adrenaline substitute for SY! in order to replicate the usage effectively.

_Aphotic_ · May 13, 2011, 09:54 PM // 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabs88

Don't have time to properly test it right now but this is definitely along the lines of what I was looking for. Did a very quick test against mr. master of damage on battle islands showing that using a spear the adrenaline for SY! would charge in 7 seconds. But that's while taking zero damage! If you taken even just a little, it will charge in 6 seconds of less easily enabling you to keep it up 100% at R10+. Team heal spamming is also solid. That said energy management seemed very solid even without Meditation. So that one can definitely be removed and replaced with a better option, presuming there is one ofc xD (Probably should be because meditation has aftercast delay)

A short second after that I came up with this bar: Energy management is 100% solid unless facing energy denial and you have Zealous Renewal to cope with that. The highlight would be the 8\10 second uptime on 50% block which again adds even more to your self protection on top of hex removal and heals.

OgGjomrJLT8FjbihkbIYqXEYvXA

Nevermind the bonetti's defence, using a PVP character to test so thats just a 8 adrenaline substitute for SY! in order to replicate the usage effectively.

That's great. Although, why Zealous Renewal? Do you really need double zealous (unless you didn't have Zealous spear?)?

Also an idea occurred to me-
If you kept Lyssa's Haste and ran Balthazar's Aura instead, and ONLY used BA to fuel Pious Fury, would it be possible to keep up SY! ? 100% of the time at less than r10 (except on rare occasion when you want to lose a condition with Conviction) and still maintain energy/survivability?
FGJ! is also a viable temporary option as well.

Gabs88 · May 13, 2011, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Aphotic_

That's great. Although, why Zealous Renewal? Do you really need double zealous (unless you didn't have Zealous spear?)?

Also an idea occurred to me-
If you kept Lyssa's Haste and ran Balthazar's Aura instead, and ONLY used BA to fuel Pious Fury, would it be possible to keep up SY! ? 100% of the time at less than r10 (except on rare occasion when you want to lose a condition with Conviction) and still maintain energy/survivability?
FGJ! is also a viable temporary option as well.

No, mostly not. Which is why I prefer stripping it right away for instant 5 energy gain + healing. Basically it gives you a free Pious Fury cast which really is all you need. Either way it's a better form of energy management then meditation by afar.

On the Balthazar's Rage side of things, you can definitely swap that in somehow and strip using Pious Fury. Though I'm not quite sure you would actually gain anything from that since the cooldown is way longer then the duration of SY! you wouldn't be able to keep it up permanently.

So in short, the only way of keeping SY! up 100% of the time is to either have an outside adrenaline buff, higher IAS (green rock candy \ BU + Pious for 33% permanent) or simply put take more damage.

I'm not sure why you want to keep Lyssa's Haste though, reapplying enchantments does not trigger Avatar of Dwayna, so Lyssa's Haste opens up for the possibility of messing up the build more then you could possibly gain. Also Lyssa's itself has a long cooldown and a cast time

Mike Jack · May 15, 2011, 02:35 AM // 02:35

How does Lyssa's Haste have a cast time?

Winterclaw · May 15, 2011, 08:11 PM // 20:11

He's probably thinking of the old version.

Our Virus · May 19, 2011, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Call me crazy, but isn't the imbagon build suppose to mainly keep up tntf (which dervs can't use) and sy? Isn't damage suppose to be supplied by the rest of the team? I may be wrong tho, but I think spamming spear of fury and just attacking is faster than having to run up to all of the enemies which may die and have you running in circles this causig u no gain in adrnl an no party buffing will occur.