Curse

The Only Warrior · May 18, 2011, 04:54 PM // 16:54

an alarming number of newbies Ive seen have been using D/A VoS for FoWSC. this is a fault. The D/A build is alive only because Deaths Charge is noob-proof, while Ebon Escape does the exact same thing, people are rly too fail to press T after jumping to MT? D/W opens up the option of bringing Whirlwind Attack, the desc shows how over powered it is combined with VoS.

|Sand Shards|
|VoS|
|Staggering Force|
|IAU|
|Ebon Escape|
|FGJ|
|Eremite's Attack|
|Whirlwind Attack|

compare this to the wiki build, if you say D/A is faster you're lieing.

signed~Smoke[dth]

scratchdude · May 18, 2011, 06:30 PM // 18:30

You may be able to bring more damage as /W, but what's the point? A VoS can already spike all mobs in one shot with the D/A build on PvX (HoHF before Staggering Force for undead mobs).
Don't call people noobs when they already do the job right. VoS doesn't need WWA.

IronSheik · May 18, 2011, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Lul.

Ebon escape-Ally

Death Charge-Enemy

Sin may not always target something adjacent.

cheape arie · May 18, 2011, 08:22 PM // 20:22

What is the point of going D/W?
I understand that you do more damage, but a D/A can still K0 a mob in 1 swing.

Is it faster because you can shadowstep to other alies while running from mob to mob? That running would save you... a few seconds?

As far as I know manly spike is more made for pugs, not for very coordinated teams.
If you want coordination between members and fast runs, you should try mesmerspike.

Nijntjuh · May 18, 2011, 10:36 PM // 22:36

ebon escape can make you fail spikes as you will not be shadowstepped near to the MoP'ed target but rather to the place MT is standing. (yes it should be a ball and not matter but lets say not evry ball is perfect) Deaths charge on the other hand shadow steps you in melee / hitting range of the target you death's charged to always insulting in an easy spike. Also why bother with taking whirlwind when stuff dies in 1 blow anyway.

Siver · Jun 24, 2011, 10:47 PM // 22:47

Am I the the only VoS who thinks that that 2nd VoS is not needed? Or if there is 2 VoS.. i don't see a reason for a mop. FOW Manley spike has been the same for a while now...I think its time to change up the meta. With the Derv update things have changed. I know as a Derv I have personally solo spiked large groups by myself with no MoP ( or a MoP who is too slow to keep up). The way I see it the only reason they're are 2 spikers is because the MT did not ball tight enough. Admittedly that happens allot in pugs, but with balls not being perfect I don't see a reason for a mop at all.
But on topic: yeah unfortunately U need Death Charge ( I prefer EE) Sometimes U have to make a judgment call on what side of the ball to jump... mostly cause MoP targets closest person to him leaving the back of the ball alive after spike.
Diarrhea of the mouth finished

lucaa_tlw · Jul 02, 2011, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronSheik

Lul.

Ebon escape-Ally

Death Charge-Enemy

Sin may not always target something adjacent.

This and not only this.
With EE, an MT doing 360 in forge would not give the VoS a target to jump on the groups of 2 mesm/2 monks at the bottom.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siver

Am I the the only VoS who thinks that that 2nd VoS is not needed? Or if there is 2 VoS.. i don't see a reason for a mop.

Agreed, when I do T3-way I'm often the single VoS spiker, if the coordination with MoP is good you dont need anything else.

The Only Warrior · Sep 27, 2011, 04:45 AM // 04:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siver

Am I the the only VoS who thinks that that 2nd VoS is not needed? Or if there is 2 VoS.. i don't see a reason for a mop. FOW Manley spike has been the same for a while now...I think its time to change up the meta. With the Derv update things have changed. I know as a Derv I have personally solo spiked large groups by myself with no MoP ( or a MoP who is too slow to keep up). The way I see it the only reason they're are 2 spikers is because the MT did not ball tight enough. Admittedly that happens allot in pugs, but with balls not being perfect I don't see a reason for a mop at all.
But on topic: yeah unfortunately U need Death Charge ( I prefer EE) Sometimes U have to make a judgment call on what side of the ball to jump... mostly cause MoP targets closest person to him leaving the back of the ball alive after spike.
Diarrhea of the mouth finished

I designed this build right after the update because i said the same thing, 1 VoS+whirlwind combined with MoP is enough to wipe out every spike. I honestly don't see why people would want to weaken their build by bringing a secondary which doesn't help, and can be replaced easily for an enormous DPS boost. And, no D/A does NOT clear every mob solo, that's why whirlwind is there to clean up, it insures you only need 1 VoS. As long as the MT does his job(i always run with the best MT), and the MoP doesn't C+space like a pug, you'll come away with an ~17min manly-way chest. And, no you don't need Deaths charge, the only place you will ever need Deaths charge would be to jump from Forest Floor to the 2 oak hearts in forest, that is the only time you will ever not-be spiking adjacent to the MT(MT has them all 360'd in forge by the time the Rit and monk catch up). I would suggest this build for anyone planning to run manly guild teams(u now have 1 free spiker slot), or T3way(u filled that slot with another SF cause wiki told u to). But hey, dont listen to me, im a noob for not checking PvX as soon as they buff something, how dare i not use "Load Template".

Vanway · Sep 27, 2011, 08:48 AM // 08:48

yeah, if you think you meed WWA then your a noob, im sorry. the current bar works great, and will spike faster than this if there isnt a retard playing it, because t faceroll spends less time in caster range then ee t faceroll, and therefore has a much better chance to spike before empathy, ss or shatter hits you. a second shadow step is much more useful. and like has been said above, assuming the tank will be in the middle of the ball is a mistake.

paranon · Sep 27, 2011, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Only Warrior

I designed this build right after the update because i said the same thing, 1 VoS+whirlwind combined with MoP is enough to wipe out every spike. I honestly don't see why people would want to weaken their build by bringing a secondary which doesn't help, and can be replaced easily for an enormous DPS boost. And, no D/A does NOT clear every mob solo, that's why whirlwind is there to clean up, it insures you only need 1 VoS. As long as the MT does his job(i always run with the best MT), and the MoP doesn't C+space like a pug, you'll come away with an ~17min manly-way chest. And, no you don't need Deaths charge, the only place you will ever need Deaths charge would be to jump from Forest Floor to the 2 oak hearts in forest, that is the only time you will ever not-be spiking adjacent to the MT(MT has them all 360'd in forge by the time the Rit and monk catch up). I would suggest this build for anyone planning to run manly guild teams(u now have 1 free spiker slot), or T3way(u filled that slot with another SF cause wiki told u to). But hey, dont listen to me, im a noob for not checking PvX as soon as they buff something, how dare i not use "Load Template".

I dont see how you can argue that D/W is faster than D/A, there are a few points to clear up i think.

1. DPS doesnt matter as a vos dervish, its about one single block of damage, not damage spread out over a long time, if DPS is involved then it's whats referred to as a "shit spike".
2. Using ebon escape as your jump is mechanically slower than than using death's charge. With DC you use one target and you use your skills in order. Unless you have an ideal key setup and awareness (which trust me, most people don't), targeting the mt, pressing ee and then switching to the mop's target to use eremite's will be slower, especially when you consider the fact that the MT might not be next to the mop target or you might ee in on the wrong side of the ball.
3. There are a number of spikes in fow where it is advantageous for the MT to not be next to the ball (spirit shepherds, shadow mesmers, etc), by taking ee you are either forcing your mt to dc into a ball which puts him into a bad position or could cause death, or you force yourself to run into the ball, adding in the risk of VoS getting stripped or you getting spiked.

There are a few other points i could mention but its not really worth doing. The D/A bar is simple and effective. If you need "more DPS" to do manly spike then you are doing it catastrophically wrong.

AndrewSX · Sep 27, 2011, 04:41 PM // 16:41

^Pretty much.

Just adding: keep in mind that (usually) your role as spiker isn't actually do dmg (ok, sounds weird, but w8..) but just go in the ball and trigger MoP as much as you can, using VoS/100b + whirlind + Splinter (does trigger) for mass application of aoe dmg.
That's what deals the largest part of dmg of the spike. Then all other skills are quite useful to improve the performance (like using thorns for feed eremite and cripple if something goes wrong) but is kinda marginal.

And as Paranon said, even if you do no have mop cause you're confident in 2 dervs alone, jumping on mobs > jumping on mt.

Expecially when pugging then, D/A is the best balance of effectiveness/noob friendly, no point arguing.