Curse

Flash Dilithium · Apr 10, 2012, 02:02 PM // 14:02

Skills:
Wearying Strike
Aura Slicer
Heart of Fury
Aura of Thorns
Fleeting Stability
Double Dragon
Conjure Flame
Resurrection Signet

Attributes:
Scythe Mastery: 12+1+1
Mysticism: 8+1
Earth Prayers: 5+1
Fire Magic: 9

Usage:
The whole point is to run two of these Dervishes that chain Double Dragon on each other almost indefinitely. For best results, also bring this...

Skills:
Ray Of Judgement
Reversal of Damage
Smite Condition
Castigation Signet
Smite Hex
Strength Of Honor
Smiter's Boon
Waste Not, Want Not

Attributes:

Smiting Prayers: 12+1+1
Divine Favor: 10+1
Inspiration Magic: 8

Usage: Maintain Strength Of Honor on both Dervishes and manage energy with WNWN and Castigation Signet.

Try these builds out for yourself. Also note that these builds are generally Hero friendly so you can throw them on your heroes and watch things explode.

Olle · Apr 10, 2012, 02:28 PM // 14:28

2 DD+RoJ=too much aoe, foes will flee.

Flash Dilithium · Apr 10, 2012, 04:02 PM // 16:02

You also have two copies of Aura of Thorns and DD is a mobile AoE. Fleeing doesn't do them very much.

Taevion0 · Apr 10, 2012, 04:09 PM // 16:09

i tried double dragon on a zm one day but it was between me and melonni and a pug team. I had to micro her, i found the eye candy to be 10/10 but the constant casting and downtime of the skill was 2/10 for me. I gave up on tyring to make something out of it

Not New · Apr 10, 2012, 04:11 PM // 16:11

DD does not cause scatter..but RoJ will...but that skill does not last terribly long anyway

I like the idea as a concept,,but having only 9 in fire magic, and having attributes split in 4 lines worries me.
I'm almost certain a better combination can be found, or for that matter having DD on 2 ele heroes.
With 2 ele heroes, both dervs can have DD on them at 16 fire magic... plus you'll have 2 DD's in the back line for when the melee breaks and goes after them...which they will.
That way the dervs can spec more into earth prayers and have much higher survivability.

Without testing I imagine something like..

2x VoS Dervs 11 earth 10 Mysticism 11 Scythe
2x DD Eles 16 fire 13 ES
Panic
Emo with Prot Prayers
Emo with Smite (SoH) for Dervs or 15/15 Smitter monk (Side Note: Shield of Judgment on Smite monk would be a better choice than ROJ, cause it stops damage from happening)
HB hero straight healing

Still don't think any combination of any permutation of Dervs and DD,will actually beat having more Mesmers heroes.

Flash Dilithium · Apr 10, 2012, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not New

DD does not cause scatter..but RoJ will...but that skill does not last terribly long anyway

I like the idea as a concept,,but having only 9 in fire magic, and having attributes split in 4 lines worries me.
I'm almost certain a better combination can be found, or for that matter having DD on 2 ele heroes.
With 2 ele heroes, both dervs can have DD on them at 16 fire magic... plus you'll have 2 DD's in the back line for when the melee breaks and goes after them...which they will.
That way the dervs can spec more into earth prayers and have much higher survivability.

Without testing I imagine something like..

2x VoS Dervs 11 earth 10 Mysticism 11 Scythe
2 xDD Eles 16 fire 13 ES
Panic
Emo with Prot Prayers
Emo with Smite (SoH) for Dervs or 15/15 Smitter monk
HB hero straight healing

Still don't think any combination of any permutation of Dervs and DD,will actually beat having more Mesmers heroes.

Your idea is to replace 3 people with 5 people and conclude that, because it does more damage, that it is a better build. The point of having DD on the dervishes is that it not only effects the person you cast it on, but the person who casts it as well. Dervish A casts his DD on Dervish B. Now both Dervishes are spewing AoE Fire damage. When it ends, Dervish B casts his DD on Dervish A. Again, both Dervish spew damage. Repeat the process for constant DD. If you put DD on separate eles, you will have DD up on the dervishes only half of the time, plus you will be taking up 2 party member slots unnecessarily.

The attribute spread is not an issue. Earth Prayers has absolutely nothing to do with survivability. It's only purpose is to supply cripple and that doesn't need to last very long regardless. If you are certain a better combination can be found, why not present one? Your idea of bringing two DD eles certainly isn't better. You would see that it's not if you actually tested the build.

2 DD Dervishes
1 smite monk
4 discord necros
1 Ether Prod Prot Ele

The team build listed above is BY FAR superior to the one you suggested which demonstrates my point.

Azazello · Apr 10, 2012, 07:58 PM // 19:58

I like the idea but when something runs to the backline, derv 2 is gonna blow his DD on them.

Kunder · Apr 10, 2012, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Conjure + SoH is good, but VoS is much better than DD. VoS will do approximately the same damage as r9 DD against 1 foe, 2x as much damage against 2 foes, etc etc.

Transforming it into a D/E PR build would also perform significantly better, but the math is a lot more complex so I'll just leave it at that.

Quote:

2 DD Dervishes
1 smite monk
4 discord necros
1 Ether Prod Prot Ele

Flash Dilithium · Apr 10, 2012, 08:57 PM // 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

Conjure + SoH is good, but VoS is much better than DD. VoS will do approximately the same damage as r9 DD against 1 foe, 2x as much damage against 2 foes, etc etc.

Transforming it into a D/E PR build would also perform significantly better, but the math is a lot more complex so I'll just leave it at that.

I dont know where those number are coming from. Maybe you forgot to add the extra damage from conjure into your calculations. The whole reason why this build works is because, if you want to run conjure on your dervish, might as well go with DD instead of VoS due to attribute spread. The DD Derv does more damage, on average, than the VoS derv assuming you aren't fighting giant mobs of enemies all the time... and even then it's close.

Kunder · Apr 10, 2012, 10:09 PM // 22:09

No, use VoS + Conjure. Sand Shards and Staggering force are also an absolute baller combination. Not sure if Staggering gets removed before Conjure's bonus is applied in the damage equation, but you still work out way ahead either way.

The attribute spread is nothing to worry about. 10/9/9/8 is a balanced setup, though I suspect that 11/9/8/8 probably edges it out. Would have to run a lot of calculations to figure out which is better.

bleh · Apr 11, 2012, 07:37 AM // 07:37

How is the E-management with heros?

Just a thought..

You could replace your ROJ with a DD/Resto or Prot Ele.

And run one Derv with Gust + Whirlwind/Inferno with 9 fire for conjure still.

Just figure that 9 fire isnt making the most of double dragon.
guess its only a potential 3-9 dmg x 8 seconds extra your missing though.

Not New · Apr 11, 2012, 08:48 AM // 08:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash Dilithium

Your idea is to replace 3 people with 5 people and conclude that, because it does more damage, that it is a better build. The point of having DD on the dervishes is that it not only effects the person you cast it on, but the person who casts it as well. Dervish A casts his DD on Dervish B. Now both Dervishes are spewing AoE Fire damage. When it ends, Dervish B casts his DD on Dervish A. Again, both Dervish spew damage. Repeat the process for constant DD. If you put DD on separate eles, you will have DD up on the dervishes only half of the time, plus you will be taking up 2 party member slots unnecessarily.

The attribute spread is not an issue. Earth Prayers has absolutely nothing to do with survivability. It's only purpose is to supply cripple and that doesn't need to last very long regardless. If you are certain a better combination can be found, why not present one? Your idea of bringing two DD eles certainly isn't better. You would see that it's not if you actually tested the build.

2 DD Dervishes
1 smite monk
4 discord necros
1 Ether Prod Prot Ele

The team build listed above is BY FAR superior to the one you suggested which demonstrates my point.

Like i said I have not tested anything...but i love the idea...

question:
Are these two Dervs heroes? or is it 1 hero and 1 player?
I ask because Heroes will recast DD on themselves irregardless if another hero cast it on them all ready.. and in cases like that DD always targets closest Ally. I cant see hero AI being smart enough to know to wait for DD to wear off before casting again. Or the AI to be smart enough to cast the skill ONLY on the other Derv. Of course U can easily micro both Dervs.

Are you the RoJ smitter monk in this team? because it would make since to micro 2 dervs casting DD on each other ...from that particular position. But if say you playing a DD Derv.. your microing the RoJ monk, The other DD Derv, and still trying pay attention to what your hitting... seems tricky and over complicated.

Flash Dilithium · Apr 12, 2012, 02:19 AM // 02:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not New

question:
Are these two Dervs heroes? or is it 1 hero and 1 player?
I ask because Heroes will recast DD on themselves irregardless if another hero cast it on them all ready.. and in cases like that DD always targets closest Ally. I cant see hero AI being smart enough to know to wait for DD to wear off before casting again. Or the AI to be smart enough to cast the skill ONLY on the other Derv. Of course U can easily micro both Dervs.

I've only ever done it as a Dervish. I block my Dervish Hero from using DD and just micro it myself. Since I only have to force him to use it every 20 seconds, it's not that hard. Of course, I would suggest using real people because having a play style that supports teamwork is always fun. I probably wouldn't use it on multiple Dervish heroes because microing it stops being fun and just starts being annoying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

The attribute spread is nothing to worry about. 10/9/9/8 is a balanced setup

That attribute spread is horrendous. It's like saying, "I use 8 healing monks for my team build. The damage is nothing to worry about because each one of the monks can wand people." It's kind of ridiculous.

Kunder · Apr 14, 2012, 11:42 AM // 11:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash Dilithium

That attribute spread is horrendous. It's like saying, "I use 8 healing monks for my team build. The damage is nothing to worry about because each one of the monks can wand people." It's kind of ridiculous.

8/8/9/11 vs. 0/8/11/11. Is losing 2 point in 1 attributes not made up by an entirely new attribute of buffs?

Take a normal VoS build with 11 Earth, 11 Scythe, 8 Mysticism. Losing 2 points of scythe mastery to run 11 Earth, 9 Scythe, 8 Mysticism and 8 Conjure causes us to do ~4 damage less per attack with the scythe (potentially another 1 or 2 damage due to skills, but this is negligible and depends on the build). OTOH, conjure adds an extra 14 damage, making us 10 damage ahead of the no-conjure build. Even more against higher armor enemies since conjure is armor ignoring.