Curse

Dahl · May 08, 2006, 10:01 PM // 22:01

If anything, assassins are overpowered. If you don't believe me, you aren't playing right.

I NEVER have energy problems, you just have to learn how to control it.

I hardly ever die.

I have almost as much defence as a warrior, but people fail to realise that assassins arent really that fragile... they're just a primary target! Like monks, assassins get targetted more than usual in pve. Monsters AI have a high assassin-killin priority.

Say a warrior runs up and attacks, they won't care, they'll just run after your casters, hence why warriors are considered "tanks" they don't even take any damage, because they're low on the priority list.

What if a monk went and overextended? he'd be dead in 2 seconds, because he's high priority, so everything would dive for him. it's the same with an assassin, he's high on the AI priority list, so he gets nailed as though he were a monk. If you're using nightstalker armor, you have almost as much defence as a warrior.

Katari · May 09, 2006, 12:57 AM // 00:57

I'm not really sure what you're talking about. My monk is rarely targeted unless I approch the frontlines.

Sins do not, and cannot have more AL than a war. If the get more AL than a war has fr base AL, well, the war can use the same number of skill slots and have even more AL. Like a sin with 70 armor using WY! is not almost within range of a warrior, because a warrior can us WY! too (And a fair number of warriors do use that skill in PvE).

If a monk over-extended, he would die because his armor is so low, and he has no shield, no absorbsion, and besides maybe guardian, no block/evade skills. Oh, not to mention that the idea of a monk over-extending is rather silly, because over-extending is getting out of range of your monks. Doh.

Warriors are not tanks because they're low on the priority list. It's backed by nothing at all. A tank that is a low prioirty targt for the AI, would be a useless tank. Warriors are tanks because they have the hightest AL, a shield in most cases, and absorbsion.

If you're using nightstalker armor, you have 85al vs all, where a warrior has 100 vs phys, 80 vs ele, a shield, and absorbsion.

prencher · May 09, 2006, 01:16 AM // 01:16

Not sure what they're on about..

Defense:
There's plenty of defense for assassins.. Ever tried flashing blades? 50% chance to block, and you can keep flashing blades running constantly, depending on your build. Then add on shadow refuge and you got a 60ish heal with an initial 8ish heal regen for 4 sec. Or add in shroud of distress for 63%+ evading below 50% health..

Just because we don't get it for free in our armor doesn't mean its not there. And thats not even considering the vast amount of other defensive skills available, or even warriors WY.

Offense:
Several good all 5 energy builds exist, add on critical eye (also 5 energy cost), high crit strikes and a zealous dagger mod.. Whats energy management when you regain enough for your next skill in 2 hits?

Theres also builds to allow you to stay and fight an entire battle without running, as well as get-in-get-out major spike builds to lay down a monk in 8 secs flat. Try doing that with your warriors

Movement:
Aura of Displacement, Return/Deaths Charge, Dark Escape, the list goes on..

Str0b0 · May 09, 2006, 01:16 AM // 01:16

I hardly think assassins are overpowered. Not by a long shot. I still maintain they are broken. If it wasn't for the chaining of attack skills their skills would have no synergy to them at all. That indicates a broken profession to me. I'm glad some of you have had success with your assassins but it's still weak in my opinion. Shadow skills are crappy with short duration and long cooldown and there are most of your defensive moves. Sure you can get in there and kill that one target with ease and while you're busy recharging a ranger or caster has taken you out. Why? Because you blew your defense skills trying to remain in close to your target while under aggro. It does happen, mostly because of the strategy involved when facing assassins, which is let them come in behind your lines then make sure they never leave. I have yet to face an assassin that isn't as easy to take out as a lone, undefended monk and that's because the nature of their skills means they often have no support once they get to their target. Now this would say, to me, that they need higher armor but apparently the devs decided not to. I mean ranger equivalent armor? Please. I don't get up close and personal with my ranger because it's suicide. I can certainly see the rationale behind the lower AL because assassins are supposed to be stealthy and quick. Guess what? They aren't in this game. An assassin is about as overt as you can get. I can certainly see them being fantastic Ghostly Hero killers but against real opponents I see them falling short of expectations. I'm just unimpressed with the profession as a whole. It just seems like to get any utility out of them you would have to spread your attribute points thinly across the attribute available just for the assassin, forget the secondary profession which in turn would make a broken character, able to do everything but not any one thing particularly well. To me assassin will always be a secondary profession, same with ritualist.

prencher · May 09, 2006, 01:23 AM // 01:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

I hardly think assassins are overpowered. Not by a long shot. I still maintain they are broken. If it wasn't for the chaining of attack skills their skills would have no synergy to them at all. That indicates a broken profession to me. I'm glad some of you have had success with your assassins but it's still weak in my opinion. Shadow skills are crappy with short duration and long cooldown and there are most of your defensive moves. Sure you can get in there and kill that one target with ease and while you're busy recharging a ranger or caster has taken you out. Why? Because you blew your defense skills trying to remain in close to your target while under aggro. It does happen, mostly because of the strategy involved when facing assassins, which is let them come in behind your lines then make sure they never leave. I have yet to face an assassin that isn't as easy to take out as a lone, undefended monk and that's because the nature of their skills means they often have no support once they get to their target. Now this would say, to me, that they need higher armor but apparently the devs decided not to. I mean ranger equivalent armor? Please. I don't get up close and personal with my ranger because it's suicide. I can certainly see the rationale behind the lower AL because assassins are supposed to be stealthy and quick. Guess what? They aren't in this game. An assassin is about as overt as you can get. I can certainly see them being fantastic Ghostly Hero killers but against real opponents I see them falling short of expectations. I'm just unimpressed with the profession as a whole. It just seems like to get any utility out of them you would have to spread your attribute points thinly across the attribute available just for the assassin, forget the secondary profession which in turn would make a broken character, able to do everything but not any one thing particularly well. To me assassin will always be a secondary profession, same with ritualist.

I bet you were one of those people calling rangers useless until the people that played them came up with some truly useful builds and then rolled your own...

Kodoku67 · May 09, 2006, 01:42 AM // 01:42

A bit lengthy but after so much success with the class I had to say all I could.

Pro's:
Personally, I love the Assassin class.

Currently running an Aura of Displacement build called True Assassin...its posted. The name is exactly how it plays. I watch the enemy movements and position myself where I shadow step though terrain...like a bridge or cliff. Soon as I see that the monk is out of healing range or is low on energy, I shadow step in and pull off a 5 combo attack that usually kills the target if they havent gotten any healing support.

Then I either A) stick around and keep fighting or B) shadowstep back to my original position out of harms way.

Anyone saying the Assassin skills have too long of a recharge are probably referring to the regular shadowsteps or skills that are meant to recharge at length. Notice how they also give you a bonus other than the step? Thats why theres a longer recharge! Aura of Displacement is 15 sec recharge and you can undo it at will, step in step out.

Also, I see alot of people complaining about energy. Try reading up on the class first. For each critical hit you get energy to boot and it only increases as you increase your crit strike lvl till 13. The only problem you have is if you miss with your attacks or use a few 10 energy skills in a row. Your damage comes from a successful combo so you need to plan accordingly.

My assassin is great for chasing people down and taking them out from fullhealth in a matter of seconds. Only a warrior can do that but they need to charge adrenaline first. Assassins are meant to strike when the opportunity presents itself.

Cons:
Seems like theres a majority out there that hates assassins. Ive been in many RA games where people leave just because they see A/W on the party list and assume Im the prebuild noob with no idea what to do with my new class.

I dont blame them. Honestly, there are many assassins out there that just plain suck. They just run in thinking "gotta kill the monk gotta kill the monk" without even checking what builds the other team is running. Easy kills for me cause self heals for assassin arent all that great in a pinch. (EXCEPT Way of Perfection thats great because it gives constant health for each crit you do)

Lower Armor...not really a con because its expected with the class. You arent a warrior, get over it. Youre basically the flame savant build from the betas but better.

Getting targetted first. Sometimes a con but I tend to turn it into a pro. Draw the attention of the enemy warriors and flee the battle with low health(make sure Aura of Displacement is active). If they follow just keep on going, your monk will get pissed if he doesnt know whats going on but the point is to let the warriors think youre an easy kill. Once across the map simply cancel displacement and zap, youre back at the main fight with one of their members missing.

Fast attack and dual hits. Con? Only bringing this up because I also play Ineptitude Clumsiness mesmer alot. Faster you attack, harder it is to avoid triggering these hexes.

Anything that slows your attack speed totally kills the assassins ability to do anything well. Obviously, gives more time for them to get a heal in. Faintheartedness is the devil.

Extreme reliance on energy. Not to be confused with not having enough energy. But if you meet up with an edenial mesmer you are pretty much screwed for the beginning of the fight. Good luck trying to pull a full combo while the burns are going.

Conclusion:
Id say the Assassin is a great class with its balance of pros and cons. Excellent at taking targets down fast but is easily countered; ie miss an attack or slowed. He cant take a ton of damage if focused but if ignored he'll deal a ton to you. The only way to run a successful assassin is to know when to run and when to strike.

Great for getting a warrior to follow you across the map, only to shadowstep back to the enemy team leaving him wondering wtf?

-Kod

Lando Griffen · May 09, 2006, 04:10 AM // 04:10

Assassins aren't any more or less effective than any class, that's the way they were designed to be. If they didn't have low armor then they'd be much better than warriors for sure. The thing is, playing an assassin takes tactics, a little bit of planning. Positioning is important in pvp, and that's something the assassin has a lot of control over. In pve there are lots of defensive skills that help you evade the enemy or render them ineffective while you escape to regenerate health. In pvp, you shouldn't be worried so much about defending yourself, I suppose it will get you farther in random arena, but normally you'll be relying on your monk, even with a warrior. Bottom line, You have the potential to deal a lot of damage in a short amount of time, and cause a lot of conditions, but you also have the potential to get killed in a short amount of time. The assassin is quite viable as a primary or secondary class, and they would be over-powered with more defense than they already have.

tc_miles · May 09, 2006, 09:15 AM // 09:15

ok so I am big necro freak as such, I went ass/nec(lol). I also im sure im playing compleatly the wrong way yadda yadda yadda. mostly i hang with henchies or go solo. I've just got off that damn island at a common lvl of 14. drawing on my previous necro experiaces, minnions are used to tank or distrac but with 25 mana adverge ihad to be creative with +15 energy -1 E regentrucron and a simmilar off hand item in weapon slot 2. Vamp minions cost 25 E a pop and i do 2 baby minions at 15 E. Wepon slot 1 gets my dagger o enchnt and i recharge at 4 blips holding those. Crit skill & death @ 8 points rest into dagger mastry.
while its fun to play like this, it is set up like a house o'cards. a front line of minions and my hasting the busy ennimis, getting them to agro on me till i pass by a minion or henchie. when i can work it, it's buetiful. wheni cant, its my butt running away but not dying. like a warriors adrennilen, energy flows when i hit those crits 2 or 3 times outta 10 and 10 hits can happen real quick for me. vamp minnions are my only healing atm. anywayi consider this good and bad and very very ugly

eddycurrents · May 09, 2006, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Funny... my original fear was assassins would be overpowered and everyone would cry and then they would get the nerf bat.

Traps · May 09, 2006, 04:39 PM // 16:39

assassins are a prity balanced class, Went toe to toe with an zin yesterday. Used my Axe warrior, He killed me (not after healing thousands of times

) But the caster picked up and finished the job after

. my group won

i was suprised that zin was able to take all that damage, and i hit prity hard highest hit so far was 99 with out my updated runes and skills.

I also agree with the high assassin AI targeting thing, im not sure that its only that but its the fact that they target the One who pulls the group first ( with henchies it alittle diffrent)

Cymboric Treewalker · May 09, 2006, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weazzol

Assassins are getting a bad rep right now due to the fact that they are the new class, so everyone is playing them. Now for the next fact, not everyone is good at playing every class. So what a while and those that just can't get the handle of playing them will leave them and the good Assassin's will be left.

They can be played different ways too. The get in quick, hit hard and fast, and get out. Or there are builds that can keep a steady (sometimes constant) chain of damage attacks going with little to no energy issues. Both of which must always keep good defensive and escape skills on the skill bar. And know how/when to use them.

I recently changed my secondary to Warrior on my Assassin. And I'd need help from those that do all the nice calculations on skills. But if the Warriors armor level is around 80-85 (not including Absorption runes and shields), wouldn't simple skills like "Watch Yourself" give you the +20 to the current 70 armor level of Assassins (90 total) make them pretty close to Warrior armor? We all know you can pretty much keep Watch Yourself up at nearly all times. I'm not saying this to encourage Assassins to take on the role of a Tank, but just to help you from being killed. Anyone have any experience in using that tactic?

Basically, give the Assassins of the world time to figure out the best way to play it or leave it. It's the new toy, everyone is playing with it. Just think, if we still played our <insert class> the same way when we started however long ago, we'd be horrible I'm sure. It took time to develop the skills/builds needed to be considered "good". I'm tired of the "I'll never group with Assassins again", "they suck", "broke class", etc, comments...It's been just over a week, give it time and development.

Or you could use mesmer and Physical Resistance for +40 armor.

I think the thing that disapointed me is that to me a warrior is a dumb brutish raw power kinda toon... and they are.

The assassin should have been a toon that avoids getting hurt... a few more dodge/block skills may have been nice...

but I was not a beta test so I don't know

And I got my survivor title as an assassin so... you can survive.