Curse

floplag · May 08, 2006, 04:03 PM // 16:03

ok, ive read alot about assasins and thier issues.. and #1 enough with the complaining, we get the point. #2 give people more than, oh... 10 minutes to learn to play the class ? not all of us had 24/7 after release to play the game.

the good.. high spike damage

the bad, low armor

the ugly, a large number s of leeroy jenkins closes running around thinking they are tanks

on that note i have a word of advise to my fellow ASS's (no that wasnt a typo) ... think about defending yourself as much as you do spiking. your a melee class with casters armor, act accordingly. hit and move. if your not carrying defensice stances or skills on your bar and are loading with attacks, your already screwing up

KvanCetre · May 08, 2006, 04:12 PM // 16:12

This type of post has not been covered on these forums yet.

/usethesearchfunction

Str0b0 · May 08, 2006, 04:16 PM // 16:16

To me the assassin profession is broken. High energy skills, low energy management, low armor and yet it requires you to be in close to do the spike damage. The only way an assassin is effective in my opinion is to take the Ranger primary and the assassin secondary. At least then you have expertise. I don't think it is so much the players as it is the profession itself. I really wanted to believe that it was just stupid people but now that I've examined the assassin profession I have come to the conclusion that it is a pointless waste of time. I know there will be a group of people that will always be die hard assassin players and mroe power to you but I don't see the utility of the profession. The only thing assassins are good for is unloading all the assassin crap I've found in the game and to unload black dye so you can all get your ninja look on.

floplag · May 08, 2006, 04:31 PM // 16:31

ok so note to self, never post anything cause im sure its already been posted before, got it, thanks Kvan

as to the broken part .. not sure i agree, its just being played wrong by most that thinks they are warrior equals, when logic and understanding tell a different story

Str0b0 · May 08, 2006, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Well even aside from people playing them like tanks there are problems with them that go deeper than bad players. An assassin is more like a melee support character which in my eyes is just stupid. Even with the defensive and damage mitigating skills at their disposal, most are such short duration that you get no practical use out of them. Insanely long cooldown times on some of the attacks bug me too. An assassin would be more effective if they could throw their chains faster. To me the point of an assassin is to go in, target a specific character behind the aggro lines, hence the shadowstepping, and throw down their chain and either kill them outright or throw a group of conditions and severely hurt their life bar. As it stands now with the energy management problems and the cooldown times involved there is nothing than an assassin can do that another class can't do better. Their utility is limited. Conditions? Rangers and necros can do that better without putting themselves in harms way. Spike? Again rangers and necro's can do that better without the potential of getting themselves killed. It just seems thrown together to me, like they had to come up with another profession and couldn't really decide on anything good and so they made the assassin.

Traps · May 08, 2006, 05:54 PM // 17:54

im going to have to agree with you Str0b0. Assassin's deffently seem to be a broken class NOT only because they have Low health and armor but because they cant cause undetected DPS. Im in a group for a mission tank starts to tank i come up behind and start throwing moderate amounts of Dps at the target, then i get aggro from not only the tanks target but 3 targets.

I dont like the way they set up this class, for Example the Rogues of World of warcraft have "stealth". The major part of that classes role is High Undetected, fast and vicious DPS But theres a catch most of the DPS can be done from the first attack of stealth. this class also works with "combo points" Repersenting 5 total points that do high damage or some other effect required by how many points you have. Another thing that bothered me was that assassins dual weild...so why cant We attack faster or twice!! Ive noticed that my assassin only attacks with ONE sai, i mean if you have two you should use both of them, right?

I do know that assassins are probly the best Anti-casters around, possibly as well as anti ranger class as well, who knows.

Although your all going to tell me "This isnt world of warcraft you stupid Noob, go back to playing that game if you dont like this game!" or something like that. I get that its just im disapointed, I expected more from the assassin class.

I DONT have a level 20 Asn (seeing that i dont want to waste my time), i have a level 12 one but i still think thats enough to tell that a class is going to be rough if u die on avarage about 7+ daily, this is just the PvE comparison.

Unless they fix something idk what im going to do.

Yukito Kunisaki · May 08, 2006, 06:28 PM // 18:28

I'd have to say the people who see the sin as broken must be kind of hypocritical...

The Ranger can do everyone's job, just not as good, I suppose that makes them 'broken' too eh?

"jack of all trades" is what they're described as anyway...

I think a sin is like a warrior on steroids. Very powerful, but falls short in the end... after it the steroids wear off... wtf is this?

Well, a warrior can do tons of damage in both dps and spike, this is true, however to spike, a warrior needs to build adrenaline, this takes time, time in which a sin has already unloaded a full combo on your face and you've lost 60-70% of your hp bar... A warrior can do more but NOT in less time, time needed to build adrenaline.

Energy problems? Critical at 8 or 13 solves that problem easily. Run critical Eye if you're in need of energy and blam, no more critical issues. Critical strike counts as a double crit so... yeah...

Don't double strike? That's what you get for not packing 16 dagger mastery. I find myself dstriking a lot and Locust Fury only makes it a lot uglier. Heck, doing more dstriking can add up to more damage then high crits.

If you look at the mechanical aspect of an assassin, it meshes together damn well...

Your armor is low, but you can initiate a spike instantly. What's that mean? You get your ass out of there after doing your spike and you wait... Does your spike kill? Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, but that means you're fighting an off target. Logically speaking, assassins are better solo.

If you can spike 3+ different people using yourself and your teammates for 70+% dmg, then their monk is hurting, even if they're a heal party monk [how you make one that's effective is beyond me...]

I'm preferably the open-minded type who likes every class for what they do and if I don't know how to play a class, then I simply leave it... Not bash it...

fallot · May 08, 2006, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Broken ? Not at all, they have some excellent skills.

VGJustice · May 08, 2006, 06:35 PM // 18:35

I'm gonna have to disagree with Str0b0 on the "broken" issue. Their energy and skills are perfectly set up for what they are meant to do: Spike kill one target, then leave.

IMHO, the correct way to play an Assassin is to let a tougher character (like a Warrior) move in first, take aggro, then have the Assassin assess the situation and strike fast and hard on the biggest threat (like a healer). They move in, bring down a target, then shadowstep away to recharge and prepare for the next spike.

This is by no means a simple tactic. Completely new players may not figure this out for a long time, even with help. The Assassin is a scalple, and most players that I've seen seem to treat them like a broadsword. It just doesn't work that way.

sunny dai · May 08, 2006, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by VGJustice

...assess the situation and strike fast and hard on the biggest threat (like a healer). They move in, bring down a target, then shadowstep away to recharge and prepare for the next spike.

Going into the initial mob that the warrior is aggroing is just silly you wanna be nowhere near that, and take out the healer/caster that is peripheral to main mob.

the asses the situation is HUGE, and overlooked.

Traps · May 08, 2006, 07:01 PM // 19:01

I see what your saying, Recall or shadowstep ...Combo (Targeting the opponets caster/monk or most important group member) then get the hell out. makes sence

I guess im kinda low to start pointing the bad assets of the assassin

, thanks for the motiviation.
the only problem now is that there is SO many assassins

Effigy · May 08, 2006, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Well, part of the problem with this quick-kill/getaway mentality is that a lot of the shadowstep skills have long recharges (30-45sec). That's a long time to wait if you want the skill to be recharge for your next emergency evac before going in again. If they shortened the recharge on the shadowstep skills, that would help a lot imo.

Another problem is that if you just go in and spike for a few seconds before evaccing, then it means you're basically useless during the time that you're not in there attacking. A warrior can give out more or less constant dps by attacking targets since they have the armor to withstand a little punishment. Assassins can't do that so they waste a lot of time standing around waiting for an openning (assuming you play assassins in the manner many people are suggesting).

King Henry · May 08, 2006, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Effigy

Another problem is that if you just go in and spike for a few seconds before evaccing, then it means you're basically useless during the time that you're not in there attacking. A warrior can give out more or less constant dps by attacking targets since they have the armor to withstand a little punishment. Assassins can't do that so they waste a lot of time standing around waiting for an openning (assuming you play assassins in the manner many people are suggesting).

True that... But while your warrior friend is chasing a monk through hell's half-acre, getting kited and constantly running into that Reversal of Fortune problem. The 'sin zooms in, kills the monk, and gives him 15dp that he won't soon forget. Sure he has a long re-charge time. But he can do a Warrior's job better. In that he gets the kill and accomplishes it quicker.

Effigy · May 08, 2006, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Well, that may or may not happen. If the enemy monks are tossing out prot, it's likely that the assassin's chain would get disrupted by Aegis, Guardian, RoF, etc. before he can actually kill the monk. Even missing one attack can ruin his chain, forcing him to evac again (if it's recharged) and wait for attack skills to recharge, shadowstep skills to recharge, etc. before attacking again. That's a hell of a lot of waiting imo. I really think those shadowstep skills could stand to have their recharge times lowered.

Weazzol · May 08, 2006, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Assassins are getting a bad rep right now due to the fact that they are the new class, so everyone is playing them. Now for the next fact, not everyone is good at playing every class. So what a while and those that just can't get the handle of playing them will leave them and the good Assassin's will be left.

They can be played different ways too. The get in quick, hit hard and fast, and get out. Or there are builds that can keep a steady (sometimes constant) chain of damage attacks going with little to no energy issues. Both of which must always keep good defensive and escape skills on the skill bar. And know how/when to use them.

I recently changed my secondary to Warrior on my Assassin. And I'd need help from those that do all the nice calculations on skills. But if the Warriors armor level is around 80-85 (not including Absorption runes and shields), wouldn't simple skills like "Watch Yourself" give you the +20 to the current 70 armor level of Assassins (90 total) make them pretty close to Warrior armor? We all know you can pretty much keep Watch Yourself up at nearly all times. I'm not saying this to encourage Assassins to take on the role of a Tank, but just to help you from being killed. Anyone have any experience in using that tactic?

Basically, give the Assassins of the world time to figure out the best way to play it or leave it. It's the new toy, everyone is playing with it. Just think, if we still played our <insert class> the same way when we started however long ago, we'd be horrible I'm sure. It took time to develop the skills/builds needed to be considered "good". I'm tired of the "I'll never group with Assassins again", "they suck", "broke class", etc, comments...It's been just over a week, give it time and development.

fallot · May 08, 2006, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weazzol

I recently changed my secondary to Warrior on my Assassin. And I'd need help from those that do all the nice calculations on skills. But if the Warriors armor level is around 80-85 (not including Absorption runes and shields), wouldn't simple skills like "Watch Yourself" give you the +20 to the current 70 armor level of Assassins (90 total) make them pretty close to Warrior armor? We all know you can pretty much keep Watch Yourself up at nearly all times. I'm not saying this to encourage Assassins to take on the role of a Tank, but just to help you from being killed. Anyone have any experience in using that tactic?

I use this, and it helps, but you wont need it everywhere. It actually helps your idiotic henchmen a lot more. It doesn't bring you quite to the level of Warrior armor (shields, absorption) but its reasonable. It also has the benefit of requiring little to no attribute investment.

Vermilion Okeanos · May 08, 2006, 08:16 PM // 20:16

I think it is just because the GW:F culture right now is retarded.

An A is targeted first when there is an IW mes next to him/her.
An A is targeted first when there is a lv 16 guy next to him/her.
An A is targeted first when there is a monk next to him/her.
An A is targeted first when there is an ele next to him/her.
An A is targeted first when there is a ritualist next to him/her
An A is targeted first when there is a .... next to him/her.

You get the picture. People target assassin not because they are deadly OR they are soft target, people target assassin because they are assassin, and a new class in faction.

The point is, there isn't really anything that wrong with assassin, but there are plenty within people's mind.

Effigy · May 08, 2006, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vermilion Okeanos

I think it is just because the GW:F culture right now is retarded.

An A is targeted first when there is an IW mes next to him/her.
An A is targeted first when there is a lv 16 guy next to him/her.
An A is targeted first when there is a monk next to him/her.
An A is targeted first when there is an ele next to him/her.
An A is targeted first when there is a ritualist next to him/her
An A is targeted first when there is a .... next to him/her.

You get the picture. People target assassin not because they are deadly OR they are soft target, people target assassin because they are assassin, and a new class in faction.

???

I don't understand what you mean. I thought this was a discussion of the pros and cons of the assassin class, not assassins being targetted by other players (if that happens).

eddycurrents · May 08, 2006, 08:52 PM // 20:52

My assassin rarely dies now because I figured out how to play her -- as an "assassin". I also sacrifice a little offense for defense.

First I choose my target: a caster at the back of the group that no one else can get to. Then I cast critical eye for energy, shadow step to my target, and unload my attack chain. If nothing comes to the caster's rescue I can usually kill my target fast. I rarely run out of energy.

Sometimes I bring an interrupting skill like distrupting stab. I can warp to a target and stop a casters big spell before anyone else gets close. Sure a ranger or mesmer can do that too, but a warrior can't. Plus I can stick around to finish the job, faster than a ranger or mez.

I changed to warrior secondary so I could spam "watch yourself" for the extra 20 armor. You get all that adrenaline and you don't use it for anything else. Even 1 pt in tactics is enough to keep +20 armor up most of the time. Plus I use +4 armor dagger handles. That gives me 94 armor which is within the range of a warrior. I can tank next to them most of the time, and they can enjoy the free +20 armor too.

Plus I always have some form of protection ready if things get heavy, like flashing blades or viper's defense. I like viper's because it works as offense too -- if the mob hits you it gets poisoned, then you run back and finish the job or run away to regen.

If I'm not sure about healing I'll bring the self healing skill (forget the name) which is excellent -- cheap, fast cast, and massive regen, albeit for a short time. Like troll unguent, only faster cast and shorter duration. It's still long enough to get out of there and save your monk's energy.

If you don't increase your armor and/or protect yourself, and if you warp into a pack of enemies like a fool, you are going to die a lot.

The other problem is when you get a group that's half assassins. A balanced group benefits greatly from an assassin or two. No more.

Saider maul · May 08, 2006, 09:54 PM // 21:54

I think the Assassin is far from broken.
Its as strong as an enchanted melee warrior,is faster then most warriors DPS rate,Hase the armour of a ranger...eh,and lacks in heals and aside from an elite decent stances to evade or block.

I play A/N and switch between SS and Flashing blades but virulance and tainted flesh appeal to me as well.
I feel the assassin could use some work in the way of heals ( SR!!! ) and maybe a slight adjustment to stances.
All in all its a decent nearly balanced character. however for balance dmg and healing it leaves 2 choices warrior or monk for secondary.
So do ya want to be a tank or kill your victim then pray for forgivness.lol

Good class just needs a slight fix to be equil.