Curse

Feero X · May 19, 2006, 12:46 AM // 00:46

Thank You everyone for comments but lets get more!!! KEEP THIS BUMPED !!!

erick5876 · May 19, 2006, 04:53 AM // 04:53

The assassin has been taken straight out of a page of old-skool RPGs. Similar thief classes in other games, it is a type that has found its home more in games that follow the style of Final Fantasy Tactics. In such games, the character moves in, hits extremely fast for a large amount of dmg, then runs away. In other MMO's this class usually has a cloaking ability that allows them to hit the target before the target knows theres anyone around (I just recently created my first assassin, so I don't know if this ability is in Factions or not. I'm guessing the Shadow Step is as close as it gets) . If you apply this mode of thinking to GW, you can play one effectively. No you don't have much armor, but you don't need it. A tank's job is to hold the aggro. An assassin can find a place by finding a good position, dealing a lot of quick damage, then getting out before they draw too much hate. You can also avoid hate by distributing your dmg among targets (Skill, new target, skill, etc.). Plus, as mentioned earlier by Feero X, you can really help out a party by taking out casters in the back lines. A constant melee isn't your best option for this class. As for the skill chain problems, I have yet to have any. It does force you to follow certain guidelines, but they have been imposed on other classes the entire time, just not as blatantly. For example, using an axe warrior, You always use dismember before axe twist. Reversing the order renders axe twist useless. Also, the skill chains don't have to follow each other instantly. You can have recharge time between.

So, thinking in this line of play, an A/N sounds really appealing. Blood magic could help keep you alive while you wait on skills / en to recharge. Or, Minions could draw aggro, and give you time. This class adds to NCsoft's goal of a game based more on skill and tactics rather than numbers. When you get some people that understand how this class should be played, and the new wears off for the newbs that don't understand it, I will wager they become very very feared. Until then, as someone trying the class out, please don't keep assassins out of parties. Let them in, and help them to learn how to exploit their strengths, and deal with their weakness.

EDIT: It might help to mention I am speaking as more of a PvE player... A lot of the mechanics still apply to PvP though. Especially for quickly taking out casters and healers before they know what's happening.

Batou of Nine · May 19, 2006, 05:10 AM // 05:10

Ah!! the age-old debate of Assasin usefulness. Oh? the game just came out? lol oh ya!

Anyway, i find the "i've only played with 2 good assasins in the whole game" comments are just sad, yet true. I played my assasin in FPE and truthfully was dying all the time like everyone else. Now that Factions is out i have been given ample time to test and learn my assasin so much more. I can honestly and proudly say that i now belong to the rare few breed of Assasins that has a clue. It is true they are delicate, and in truth i believe they are some of the more difficult classes to play. Like people say, it is still early in the Factions game, and its Metagame isnt really present yet. This said discriminations will change in time as they did (slightly) for classes from prophecies like mesmers, rangers, necros.

Basics on a good Assasin are super simple... Does NOT aggro mobs (leaves that to the tank), knows when its time to retreat (watches own hp), and understands skills well. These 3 things are prolly THE easiest way to be an effective assasin. Since Assasins are delicate because of lack of melee armor, it calls for better thinking when one makes their build. Things like the most amount of damage with the least amount of time, exit strategy, self heal or defense, condition spreading capabilities, and overal goal of their build. If one takes time to read skills and place complementary skills together they can accomplish really anything from taking out casters QUICKLY (may fav), to conditions spreading, to annoyance builds like crippling, KD, interrupting, even being able to take warriors down quickly, and MANY more things....

All in all, i love playing my assasin and quite frankly PuGs can kiss my @ss for the current discrimination that is present. I know it will most likely die down soon, but for now i own with henchies. I have found the (CNTRL + ALT + SPACE) target feature to be invaluable as an assasin with henchies. This means i can actually send in the fighter henchy ahead of me to get aggro, and then rush in with him as my shield. It's a tactic of beauty =D. As for PvP, all ill say is Tele skills FTW!

The general Assasin population just needs to get more educated on HOW to play the class. When this happens, we Assasins will no longer be the "lepers" of the community. =P

LaserLight · May 19, 2006, 05:45 AM // 05:45

The Mission: Tannahkai Temple (or however that's spelled)

The Group: Three Rangers, three Assassins, two henchy Monks. One Ranger was an R/A using daggers, one Assassin was an A/R using a bow. I was one of the Daggersins.

The Plan: Do your best not to die too much.

The Result: Mission Successful.

With three Rangers, three Assassins, and two henchymonks. And by no means was each player elite.

Just remember this the next time a PuG refuses to let even one Assassin in. Then grab three or four of them, a few stranded Rangers, and have some fun XD.

easyg · May 19, 2006, 06:41 AM // 06:41

Assassins aren't hated. I'm in Arborstone right now and the district is about 1/3 assassins. Obviously, it's the most popular profession in Factions by far.

The real question is "why do non-assassins hate assassins?"

I've come to the conclusion that the reason assassins are disliked by a lot of non-assassins ) is that assassins basically add very little value to the group.

I've spent weeks observing how assassins are being utilitized in GvG play, and wow...there's no denying that assassins spend just way too much time not doing anything at all but zig-zagging around looking for the proverbial "opening." The sad thing is that groups are getting really good at responding to assassin attacks, and unless the assassin kills his target outright he usually has to retreat before doing any serious damage.

Compare that to a good domination mesmer. The mesmer doesn't need an "opening." He is constantly harassing enemy casters. Until he's dead, he's a threat.

LaserLight · May 19, 2006, 06:53 AM // 06:53

Nor does a good domination mesmer slay his targets outright. An Assassin does. Incomplete analogy.

Phades · May 19, 2006, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaserLight

Nor does a good domination mesmer slay his targets outright. An Assassin does. Incomplete analogy.

Total or near total shutdown is equivilant to being dead.

Batou of Nine · May 19, 2006, 06:06 PM // 18:06

@ easyg.

Refer to my post above you. The majority of Assasins are still clueless, but i discuss simple ways to BE useful. It all boils down to knowledge of skills in order to be fast and effective. For example, i have several builds for PvE and PvP that fulfill many roles such as quick and huge dmg, kd lock, degen stacking, interruptor, etc.

Do not generalize the class because you dont see or understand their roles. It is true that the majority of Assasins are clueless, but that is slowly changing. The class itself is incredibly useful!!

nohooiam · May 19, 2006, 06:12 PM // 18:12

the assassins are useful in pvp, thus useful in pve argument needs to be scrapped.

the melee assassins in gvg are played by those who have a grasp of the strength/weaknesses of their character. its impossible to expect this from the random pug assassin.

assassins can be useful in niche situations but pve can simply be brute forced with nuking and aoe damage. without a need for strategic play and the likelihood of picking a dead weight assassin, i can see why groups are reluctant to pick them up.

plus, the reality is that most pve assassins couldn't tell the difference between a rock and their health bar. if people had positive experience with assassins, i doubt they would be treated with the same respect of wammos.

Batou of Nine · May 19, 2006, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Another niave statement, nohooiam. To say they are only good in certain PvP situations is wrong; To say they are useless in PvE is wrong. I have said in so may threads now how effective i am with an all henchy group, as i send in the fighter for aggro, then i sprint or tele to back line and tear apart the backline casters. I even have a build for high defense and good AoE in high density mobs. I have constant blocking stance, and do 80-100+ AoE dmg every 10 sec. If im not in this setup i use a KD, high dmg, fast delivery setup to eliminate a target and escape before the mob can change focus.

i have played my assasin with 75% PvE and 25% PvP so far, using both PuGs and henchies. I CONSISTANTLY get compliments about my killing speed, and self awareness, keeping the stress off the healers. I have yet to get a complaint.

My point? STOP FREAKIN GENERALIZING ABOUT THE ASSASIN CLASS!! This happened in Prophecies to Mesmers and changed drastically in the last 6 months before Factions release because the discrimination was unwarrented!! In time many more Assasin players will better understand how to play them. I understand that the mass of them and the comparitively low good to bad ratio of Assasin players is quite bad, but please PLEASE hold your judgements people! I have many friends who are great Assasins. My advice is look for the GOOD ones, and disregard the bad ones. That way you can remember the good ones, and actually want to invite them again!!!

Enjoy.

Sanji · May 20, 2006, 06:11 AM // 06:11

Most Non-Assassins don't have a clear idea of what an Assassin should do (or at least if they do, they don't like it at all) and aren't confident most typical Assassin players do either. This is close to what Rangers had to deal with early on in Prophecies. That is, "Physical Damage with some weird tricks". Because of this Assassins compete for the slot Warriors and Rangers take but are typically at a disadvantage when it comes down to a choice.

If the party wants a Necromancer, Monk, Elementalist or Ritualist, they probably aren't going to substitute that slot for an Assassin.

The fact that there are a metric ton of people playing Assassin hurts a lot. Not to mention because most of them are the same type of people that almost make "War/Mo" an insult doesn't exactly help either.

Until someone figures out a build for Assassin that's generally accepted as good they are bound to only get into groups in the "Hey, you're not a henchmen at least" slot.

Maria The Princess · May 20, 2006, 06:19 AM // 06:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightblade

Ranger PvE have Barrage/Interrupt
Ranger PvP have Barrage, Interrupt, Thumper

haha who uses barrage in PVP?!!! u makin me laugh!!! plz never repeat that again

rangers are interrupters/spikers/trappers/cripshoters

LaserLight · May 20, 2006, 08:37 AM // 08:37

Phades: Total shutdown ends. As does death, but total shutdown doesn't leave DP. And even when totally shut down, someone else has to come along and finish you. And if they don't, then you're only temporarily out of service, and that without any harm done save time.

Death > shutdown. if it wasn't, there wouldn't be killing characters in GvG matches, just teams of seven Mesmers and a Monk, throwing shutdown moves all day.

damkel · May 20, 2006, 01:05 PM // 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silent Kitty

..Foes in Factions are incredibly overpowerd. When you are attacked from behind, you have to turn the camera angle, they don't have to do that. You have a bit more lag than they do...

X for the win

Phades · May 21, 2006, 04:56 PM // 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaserLight

Phades: Total shutdown ends. As does death, but total shutdown doesn't leave DP. And even when totally shut down, someone else has to come along and finish you. And if they don't, then you're only temporarily out of service, and that without any harm done save time.

Death > shutdown. if it wasn't, there wouldn't be killing characters in GvG matches, just teams of seven Mesmers and a Monk, throwing shutdown moves all day.

How does the shutdown person res the rest of the team? He doesnt, just like a dead person. It doesnt matter when, but it is equivilant to death, due to being a man down and unable to act will lead to eventual death. Entire party dead typically leads to loss anyway and means to enhance this situations, such as shutdown, pull just as much weight as damage dealing.

The shutdown person can still cause damage in various forms. Persisting shutdown requires someone else to save the target, not having a teammate finish the job for you.

moriz · May 22, 2006, 01:59 AM // 01:59

total or nearly total shutdown requires the dedicated resources of one or two characters, which is merely a 1 to 1 tradeoff: one taking another out of the fight. death does not require much dedicated resources. while the target is dead, the attacker can proceed to attack someone else. the side who just took a death is now shorthanded. even if the target get's rezed, that target is now weakened for the next few minutes at least, which then weakens the entire party.

that's why none of the top guilds bother to have a "total, or nearly total" shutdown of one character in particular. it's simply not worth it. they use shutdown to lower the efficiency of many characters, not one in particular.

anyways, comparing an assassin to a mesmer is like trying to compare a warrior to a monk. completely different roles, and completely different benefits to each. i personally will not choose one over the other: i'll have both. i'll have the mesmer harass one monk, while the assassin annihalate the other. a perfect win-win situation.

Isileth · May 22, 2006, 04:20 AM // 04:20

To keep someone shutdown you have to continue to target them. If you move on to another target they are back again. A dead target is out of the game and isnt using up one of your teams time until he is rezed.

Anyways the assassins suck thing is just weird. Most people who claim this have never picked up a sin but because everyone says they suck they obviousely must suck. What seems to be the biggest point against us is that we cant do what warriors can. We arent ment to... Tanks tank. Thats what they do. (Just a quick note here im sure it will get flames but i dont care. I play a sin i know what they can do. Sins can tank! Not as good as a warrior by any means but that doesnt mean as soon as one mob starts hitting on us we have to run away.) Anyways back to the point at hand. Sins can do what tanks cant, we get right to the backline and can deliver a fatal combo to the casters bringing them down in seconds. And all this while the tank is holding off the melee and protecting the backline. Sins arent ment to replace tanks but they do bring new skills and tactics that shouldnt be shunned.

Phades · May 22, 2006, 04:54 AM // 04:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

total or nearly total shutdown requires the dedicated resources of one or two characters, which is merely a 1 to 1 tradeoff: one taking another out of the fight. death does not require much dedicated resources. while the target is dead, the attacker can proceed to attack someone else. the side who just took a death is now shorthanded. even if the target get's rezed, that target is now weakened for the next few minutes at least, which then weakens the entire party.

Simply stated, you justify my point later in your own post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

i'll have the mesmer harass one monk, while the assassin annihalate the other. a perfect win-win situation.

It doesnt take much to keep someones resources tied up or locked down given the options a mesmer has. Given the nature of many hexes in the game, they can also be wearing down a couple targets at the same time as well.

Just like people stated shutdown doesnt guarentee death, using just an assasin to spike doesnt either. You are discounting the larget picture at work here when you try to disprove the analogy between the two.

Jas D · May 22, 2006, 02:44 PM // 14:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoDiamonds

The hate is strictly because many novice Assassins think they have tank armor. Assassins can't tank. They get themselves killed repeatedly, not defending themselves properly.

That's what I was going to say.

People need to learn how to play assassins.

Lambentviper · May 22, 2006, 04:17 PM // 16:17

if your an assassin and your being attacked, you should either be kiting or stationary due to a self heal.

period.