Curse

troyismyname · May 19, 2006, 07:34 AM // 07:34

ur making it seem like an assassin has to be doing something all the time, i really dont think that anet made this character to be played that way, and if u dont like an assassin doing hit and run, the way its supposed to be played, then your just missing out on something that could really be good for a team.

warriors constantly tank//attack because thats what anet made them for, frontline head mashing and taking damage, and getting healed by the monk

rangers constantly attack with barrage because that is a pretty decent build right now especially for pvp, i guess....

monks idle when no1 is really in need of heals.

maybe eles never idle and they constantly attack, but thats so easily countered and theyre really just like any other ranger or warrior do dmg and sit there in like one spot...

see assassins are made to assassinate casters, softies w/e... the good part about them is that they can kill in one chain if they chain right and what not its better than having an ele nuke, and mis... assassins also hae speed to their advantage... i play my assassin a lot in 12v12 and missions and quests and if you ever see me idle for more than 10 seconds then i give you the right to scream at the top of your lungs at me flame me, w/e... unless im actually afk and like using bathroom etc... lol the assassins u see idling for 30 seconds are really noobish bcuz taking that long to pick a target is just not right... its wrong... too long and like they probably dont know what char is more important to kill... in that case the team should call a target or the assassin should just attack, of course carefully howewver....

but seriously... i think you're exaggerating the 30 seconds thing, but if you really do see assassins like that, then i dunno....

anyway thats my response to your claims and stuff, hope to get more out of this.. ttyl

~TROY

PS no character class can ALWAYS be buffing/casting/attacking/doing wahtever theyre supposed to do due to energy restraints and adrenaline etc... recharge time of skills

EDIT:
but the reason i editted and leave this ps is that if the other team recognizes that the assassin is actually a very big threat and is "idling" in the back, he/she is probably drawing fire that would otherwise be directed at another important character in the team. anyway hope to hear from more of you guys, and just tfor the record easyg this isnt about pvp and waht assassins do or do not do compared to other classes, just the fact that people discriminate against assassins and dont give them a chance to partake in a mission and automatically assume they suck; not preferrences as to what character type you have in your group, thanks again guys and gals

A_Muppet · May 19, 2006, 12:53 PM // 12:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by troyismyname

assassins WHEN USED THE RIGHT WAY, are a valuable asset....

Therin lies the problem. There are alot of ninja wannabes who think assassins can/should be able to tank, and do. So for every competent player (and this isn't just limited to the assassin class) there are tens, hundreds, even thousands, of stupid prats. It gets people jaded.

ps. You think assassins have it bad? One word: Mesmer.

Nights Death Dealer · May 19, 2006, 01:32 PM // 13:32

i have a A/mo, ive played it in PvE and PvP, im yet to have anyone call me a n00b 'sin because i dont consider myself a tank, i consider my self a whammos friend on the battlefield. im not first one to reach enemy (big nono, 'sins dont have armour for blunt attacks even with the vanguard armour), i let the tank take first hit, im right behind, i hit with jagged strike, leave them bleeding, fox fangs, unblockable strike, and then finish with twisting fangs....im in there, tanks is absorbing dmg, and ive provided the enemy with HUGE health degen, as backup i use vipers defense to telport ou (only used when away from other groups so as not to agro others). Now a lot are thinking, fox fangs and twisting fangs are slow to recharge, this is why i have the elite skill seeping wound, which when enemy is bleeding or poisoned (perfect for after jagged strike), the enemy is suffering an extra -3 health degen. the rest of my skill bar includes, resurrect (so monks can keep energy for healing), healing breeze, and orison of healing, to 1. heal myself after vipers defense, or two, when i know im out tanked, and pointles running in, i can offer a tiny amount of extra healing, all of these done with the ceremonial daggers (originally had zealous), which constantly keeps my energy high where it needs to be. Im no pro, but i know that a 'sin is not for tanking, and it sucks that others are degrading the sins, to me, they are condition dumpers, not tanks!

Edit: My first character btw was a monk from prophecies, so i kinda know what its like being a healer/prot, hence why i took monk as secondary, so i could help relieve the burdon of the hard done by monks.

quickmonty · May 19, 2006, 01:41 PM // 13:41

Just got my assassin up to level 20. Still playing with the build but I find it to be deadly against the squishies. The only problem I have is being idle for a while waiting for my tele skills to recharge. Any suggestions?

Grandmaster · May 21, 2006, 12:55 AM // 00:55

the assassin hate is rediculous, ive been waiting at gyala hatchery for 2 days now, no one will let me in. (and im one hell of a sin, got the prof down perfectly)

moriz · May 21, 2006, 03:02 AM // 03:02

the skilled assassin, aside from being deadly and not die, will sometimes do "nothing at all".

by "nothing at all", i mean not actively doing their jobs. this could be caused my many reasons. the biggest one is when the pull is bad, and the group being attacked is not far enough from nearby groups. the skilled assassin will not actively gank the backline in that situation, because doing so will aggro all the nearby groups, creating a big problem. in that situation, the skilled assassin might strafe arrows, take out a few assassin monsters who got past the warrior, and might even chip in a bit on the frontline.

anyways, the fastest recharging shadowstep spell is Aura of Displacement {e} at 15 seconds. that's tied with Recall, but AoD is far more useful.

[FnG] Lazz · May 21, 2006, 03:34 PM // 15:34

As fun as an Assasin is to play, its certainly not fun trying to get into a group. It annoys me that so many people try to make the 'perfect' group and accept and reject people, especially Assasin's, like yesterdays trash.

Ive been in groups where we've been waiting for 10 minutes because the leader wants to find that extra 1 monk, and I decide to wait considering how hard it is to get a group, then when the monk joins, he/she tells the leader to kick the Assasin (me), and the leader does it in a heartbeat.

Other times I have been with another player looking for a group which started from scratch, then 10-15 minutes later managed to work our way up to 8 players, only for someone to say "too many assasins" (some people regard 2 as too many) and Im immediately kicked.

/rant

troyismyname · May 21, 2006, 06:31 PM // 18:31

EDITTED...again
~TROY

EDIT the real reason for this post:

ive found that what you guys have been saying is true, for the most part, and im glad to see that as you get farther into the game other players really see that the assassin can be a real asset to the team. and lately its been a lot easier getting into groups. also i followed the advice of what some of you said, and not to my surprise its really working. i understand (now) that constantly saying a/mo lfg without any specific description as to waht i can do is pretty much not going to get me into a group, so ive changed waht i say... anyway i think most of the issues have been covered on this thread already so i'll be not be coming back as often as i used to, to check on this thread. thanks again to all who replied.

fallot · May 21, 2006, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Can we please stop calling them "sins" ? It isn't that hard to spell the entire name. Sin sounds like a name some myspace kiddy with a cheese complex would come up with. Hell, even ass is better than this.

Evilsod · May 21, 2006, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by A_Muppet

ps. You think assassins have it bad? One word: Mesmer.

Hehe, ickle assassins can't take been left out of groups? Am i suppose to be sympathetic to your cause? Double damage ele bosses can waste people at melee range in seconds from what i've heard, doesn't go well with the assassins crap armour.

People really don't care if you can play the character, 3/4 of people who have Mesmers can play them, that doesn't mean they get groups. Same thing for Rangers back in the days before Ranger Spike hit PvP.

moriz · May 22, 2006, 02:10 AM // 02:10

double damage ele bosses can waste just about anyone at melee range, crappy armor or no. when that happens, i prefer to blame the ritualist for allowing shelter to fall, or the monk failing to get protective spirit up.

and i really don't understand the argument about assassins not being a valuable part of the group. once i was doing nahpui quarter on my AoD assassin. for one battle, as i was waiting for a good strike, i saw my party was slowly being rolled over. i had to help the warriors finish off the star blades, because the blades were in the process of chewing through the warriors. it appears that without my assassin's damage output, they could not keep up. the group consisted of me (the assassin), two henchie monks, two warriors, a ranger, a necro, and an ele. if they replaced me for another one of those characters, i think the situation would be the same: without a good assassin, the party's damage output was cut down drastically.

Cymmina · May 22, 2006, 05:03 AM // 05:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by easy

I mean would anyone want a healer in your group who spent 30 seconds out of every minute picking and choosing when and whom to heal?

*Cough* healer henchmen.

I've played all of the misfit classes. My main and oldest character is a mesmer, my ranger turned 1 year old last week, and my necro is close to 11 months old now (I was curses before curses was popular). I tried rit first and just didn't like it as much as I thought I would, so I started an earth ele and an assassin. I really like it, so close to mesmer. I love being able to ignore terrain obstacles to get to my target and back. I just wish my internet and computer didn't suck so I could run interrupt more reliably.

Assassins are at a huge disadvantage for most of the game because of the afflicted soul explosion. Not exactly friendly to a profession exclusive to Cantha. One boss dying takes half your health and the ele boss with Star Burst absolutely destroys you with Sliver Armor. But, I have the lvl 1 survivor title thanks to all the easy 3k exp quests (died [email protected] exp during Vizunah, and I was never afk or a leaver -- not that the henchmen would care). I currently have only 19 deaths and I'm picking out which 15k Kurzick armor I want to get (that's 3 Cantha missions left to complete). I henched the whole way or went with one other person.

My mesmer did *not* have any trouble getting groups at all for Cantha missions (people were excited to have me for Boreas Seabed and taking out that pesky ele boss outside of Fort Aspenwood). However, I frequently see people look for group and outright say "no assassins". A few even say they have an assassin, as if it makes the discrimination somehow better.

chrystianek · May 22, 2006, 12:55 PM // 12:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardian of the Light

HOW TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A NOOB ASSASSIN AND A PRO ONE

Ask these simple questions and add up points and you'll have a good idea of if you have a good assassin or a bad one.

Do you have any Tele skills, if so what are they?

4 points: Whats a Tele Skill?
3 points: No
2 points: yes death's charge
1 Point: Yes Recall/Aura of Displacement and/not Death's Charge

Do you have any Defensive/running stances?

4 points: What are those?
3 points: No
2 points: Yes I have one thats only lasts a little bit OR no I just use tele skills
1 points: Yes I have a few good ones

What do you do to attack the monsters?

4 points: I just run in and try and kill them
3 points: I have no stances and stuff but I run away when I'm in trouble
2 points: I run in and use my stances when I'm attacked
1 points: I teleport in kill my target and teleport back before the ememies can attack me.

if you scored

10+ Kick this noob and post in on guru so we all know who the noob is (I don't mean the last part)
7-9 Most likely a noob don't accept in high areas
5-6 This person know what he is doing accepting isn't much of a risk
3-4 THIS IS A MOST LIKELY PRO ACCEPT HIM AND BOOT THE WAMMO!!

yep perfect scoring
if the pve asn dsnt have recal or aura of displacement that=kick from the group on the spot!
i cant stand when i c all the asns runing around just trying to unload the combos-the best when i c one using horns on clump of enemies followed with falling spider(which of course will miss) and than twisting fangs(which will miss again) doh

LOOK AT THE GOD DAMN SKILLS ASNS HAVE
mantis/jungle/blossom=gg thats one of the best pve(and proly tombs-pheonix combo owns in gvg but for toombs criple/eoe is better IMO) combos u can get

my favorite class was alwsys ranger(or mesmer) and when asn came out it just fit my style of playing right from the start-u kite u evade and just wait for right momment to strike,and u always keep your distance(well after u unload the combo

)

and toallasns that cant do it right
switch to bows as your wepons
use maximum critical strike with critical eye and sharpen daggers+barrage-its actualy a more dmging build than regular ranger can ever be

anyway sorry for the small runt
but when i c the asns running around tanking i almost rage quit

ShreeK · May 22, 2006, 04:25 PM // 16:25

I'm probably an "intermediate" player to GW. Most certainly not a noob, but I haven't made fame and fortune for myself. I've tried just about every melee damage class combo (rangers/assassins/warriors and combos therein). I'm currently working on a runner/farming wammo after I finished my assassins PvE stuff. My wife is leveling up a wammo with me; I'm generally sword/axe and she's usually hammer.
I have yet to find a situation where either of our damages can touch my assassins. My assassin easily outdamages my warrior in frontload damage, and (atleast against soft targets) usually has considerably higher maintainable damage. The assassin doesn't wait for adrenaline (usually) and moves straight into high damage output; a good assassin can easily manage power, maintain that state of high damage, and hopefully push it higher as the fight moves on.
While this next statement may get flamed, this is the interweb and not all that unexpected. OMGosh assassins CAN tank!!!1!1uno!shift+1! Does that mean they should? Not when at all possible to avoid. My monk can tank, doesn't mean it is the best thing for the party, but I'd wager my monk can outlast most warriors in a battle of taking damage. Under no circumstances does an assassin come close to the PASSIVE defenses of a warrior. In that case if you are one of the "true assassins" and all 8 of you skill slots are devoted to the attempt to kill a single target.... plz leave my group now. However an assassins "job" is to do damage; not hit 2-3 times and kite for 20 seconds. My assassin can easily tank 4-5 level 20 tanks, and with a single healer manage much much more. Again, not the ideal situation, but any assassin who is scared to take damage needs to rethink their build.
I dislike seeing assassins say "I will not tank" as much as I detest seeing them say "tank lfg". You're an assassin ffs, if you wanted to be a warrior you should have rolled one, stand tall and be proud. Assassin LFG -----es!!!
Aside from the shing jea missions I henched nah pui, and most of the quests between missions. Aside from that the most I had to wait for a group was about 10 minutes, and that was largely due to underpopulated missions like unwaking waters at 3AM EST.

Last but not least, learn from your mistakes and move on. Till I started to get a real feel for the class, I ended most missions and harder quests at 60DP. Zen Daijun and to a certain extent Vizunah were tests of patience. I probably would have ended them closer to 200 DP if it was possible. In the end though, I picked up experience at playing the class, and a couple skills at Kaineng and consider myself a valuable addition to any group I offer my services to.

moriz · May 22, 2006, 05:14 PM // 17:14

yes, i can load up on some defensive skills on my assassin, and then i can "tank" with him as well. but guess what, if i do that, my assassin's damage output goes down to almost nothing. shadowstepping around and ganking important targets is the assassin's niche. if you're an assassin who loads up on defensive skills, please leave my group now. if i want a tank, i'll get a warrior.

ShreeK · May 22, 2006, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Reading comprehension for the wins
I merely said that to devote your entire skill bar to the singleminded attempt at killing a single opponent was foolish. People have this "I'm not a warrior so I should need defense skills" mindset when playing their assassins. I haven't entirely grasped if there is any rhyme or reason to agro in guildwars (I come from DAoC where its a strict function of damage/healing/skills specifically designed to hold agro) but generally 1 tank can only hold agro on 1 target. That being the case odds are at some point your assassin WILL get agro... at which point, he can either 1) run (thus making him a wasted place in the group) 2) trade blow for blow (thus making him a burden on the support) or 3) put up a defensive ability and bring down his/her target.
Never in my entire post did I say take a full bar of defense in on an assassin, and in fact stated that if you wanted to tank you should have rolled a warrior. My point is that so many people have a myopic view of the class. "I should be able to kill anything in 3 hits and run away" does not work, and even if it did, generally builds like that have tremendous re-use timers, thus making you a 1 hit wonder, and effectively putting your group at 7 members whilst you wait for your pwn 3-hit combo to recharge.
Furthermore, if there is no tanks available, and your group needs one, you should be more than ample to fill the roll. When my monk joins a group, I assess the situation; if there is another monk I determine if i should be running infuse, boon/prot, bonder, etc. When my assassin joins the group, if I see no warriors, I anticipate to take a certain ammount of beating and plan accordingly, while the assassins who have created this stigma of us being glass cannons keep the same build they've been using since the monastery. The class is highly versatile, with the capacity to run conditions, interupts, tank, permission, or all out raw damage; those that are saying "assassins were designed for xxxx" are limiting themselves and their groups. Which admittedly i believe I made one such comment, but nothing so narrow as to restrict what the class has the capacity for.

Chaos Eryx · May 22, 2006, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrath

Those first few missions with the afflicted seem to do a number on assasins. Multiple soul explosions, or whatever, seem to do a number on their armor. Especially if they're still running around in the starter set(Which I saw a lot of).

That is the exact reason why! The explosions do 74 damage to a sin. If that sin is attacking and just one more target goes down besides the one the sin is attacking , it's over. So they are seen as very weak early on. Most don't put two and two together and automatically assume the sin dies because they are a noob.

As far as dmg from a War and a Sin it all depends on the build. Sins can drop posion and bleeding and so can a W/R which is DOT. I think a Sin can likely do more dmg quicker than a War which makes the enemies recovery tougher. Once War has the adren built they are hard to out dmg. Wars can also stay in the up front battle longer than a Sin. Remember Sins hit and run. Once a War's adren skills are down it can still stand in there and attack.

I think Sins suffer from the same fate Rangers did and Mes still do. It's mainly because your not weilding a gigantic sword or have huge fiery rocks falling from the sky, or 10 beasts to do your bidding.

A few months from now Sins will be welcomed in to parties. Most of the noob Sins will stop playing the char because no one will take them in to a group.

moriz · May 23, 2006, 03:07 PM // 15:07

the assassin is not really a flashy class, once you get past the shadowstep skills. and even that's not all that flashy: if you're doing it right, your own party members won't see you use them. past that, the only thing most people see of an assassin's work is the +##exp as the assassin decks something (which is often mistaken for someone else's kill), or if the assassin's bad/unlucky, the assassin's health going to zero on the party window.

and shreek, my reading comprehension skills are fine. maybe you should write more coherently: your sentences are jumping all over the place.

tda · May 23, 2006, 03:50 PM // 15:50

This thread made me grin a bit yesterday and something really funny just happened, so i figured i'd share this experience with you guys. Zir = myself, red underline = the assassin guy.

Case in point why i personally would never invite an assassin into a PUG which i was the leader of unless either A)They spoke with proper grammar or B)I know them from somewhere else.

Made me laugh though

Silent Kitty · May 23, 2006, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by tda

Made me laugh though

You're just being mean. S/he was just desperate to join someone, as s/he was rejected as 100% assassin.