Curse

unholy guardian · May 28, 2006, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

I wonder, would it be fair to force assassin class armors to be all 60 AL but then double all skill damage?

well it would be truly a sin then i guess, although people would scream overpowered... be a cool idea, and i guess it would help in pve a bit.. but it would also get you killed a bit more.

It be a fine idea with me personally, although i dont have AoD, which would be really important then

glass cannon ftw lol

moriz · May 29, 2006, 12:16 AM // 00:16

here are some observations i've made so far with my assassin:

critical hits:
-they drop off rapidly after reaching the jade sea/echovald forest areas, which means my energy management and a significant part of my damage output is no longer there.
-suggestion: make putting points into the critical strikes attribute innately cause the character's critical hits percentage to be independent of levels. an assassin with 38% critical hits percentage should get 38% critical hits, vs that poor level 1 mantid and vs that level 40 giant squid.

self healing:
-the only true self heal spell, shadow refuge, is too short and too conditional, which will cause more healing pressure on the monks.
-suggestion: either make the +hp at the end of shadow refuge unconditional, or make it last longer.

self defense:
-utterly lacking.
-suggestions: add a slight chance to evade to viper defense. increase the duration of critical defenses to 10 seconds, and lower its casting time to 1/4 seconds. make dark escape NOT end when you successfully connect an attack.

damage:
-not quite high enough: cannot truly take out a target in one combo
-suggestion: boost combo skills damage slightly (3, for example), and make the attack animation shorter for each successful combo hit (example: first hit is 1.33 seconds, second is 1.25 seconds, third is 1.13 seconds, etc, until it reaches 1 second), so the assassin does really high damage for a few seconds, and then drop off.

sinican · May 29, 2006, 01:15 AM // 01:15

wow i dont think anyone mentioned anything about how asn doesnt even have a Speed boost for attacking...

make dbl strikes either occure a lot more or work with attack skills or simply increase the speed they attack at

daggers swinging no faster than a sword is BS

LaserLight · May 29, 2006, 03:56 AM // 03:56

Phades: I fail to see how that increased teleport range impacts PvP whatsoever. The Assassin is still well within radar range - we're not flashing in from the Badlands here. I simply want teleport range to exclude aggro range, so an Assassin can engage with true surprise, perhaps doing a better job of...assassinating...targets in PvE. Please explain how adding a bit of range to teleports would completely break them in PvP.

Shar, what Phades meant was that using the +5 armor Handle and the armor that grants a +15AL base bonus while attacking would give you exactly what you wanted. Would get up to 90AL while attacking the enemy, which should give you more than enough armor to get out of scrapes and finish targets badly mauled by your primary attack stream through autoattacking. Tos /W on there, grab "Watch Yourself!" and you're up to 110.

110 not good enough?

Phades · May 29, 2006, 04:47 AM // 04:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord_shar

Can you please elaborate? Using the +5 armor weapon suffix pretty much excludes the +30 hit point option, which does not sound reasonable. I'm not certain about "+AL while attacking" mod or skill either (I've seen -10 AL while attacking, but not +10). If you're referring to Flashing Blades (50% block while attacking), it seem to be a waste of an elite slot. Also, this does not address why certain other classes get 100+ armor levels vs. specific attack types, while assassins get no such defense bonus.

Your armor has a mod that is +15AL while attacking. Nightstalker's i believe is the prefix.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaserLight

Phades: I fail to see how that increased teleport range impacts PvP whatsoever. The Assassin is still well within radar range - we're not flashing in from the Badlands here. I simply want teleport range to exclude aggro range, so an Assassin can engage with true surprise, perhaps doing a better job of...assassinating...targets in PvE. Please explain how adding a bit of range to teleports would completely break them in PvP.

Never being able to target someone who employs any kind of teleport comes to mind, in addition to being able to teleport directly to the guild lord on a few different maps as well. Right now its about neutral with players being able to affect a assassin that comes into range to teleport.

LaserLight · May 29, 2006, 05:34 AM // 05:34

I've targeted players well outside the aggro range Phades, I have no clue what you're talking about. As for the Guild Lord, point, but as it stands teleports are so much garbage in PvE and that's just not good. Even 110% aggro bubble would work, but for Bob's sake Anet, do something.

Showtime · May 29, 2006, 06:03 AM // 06:03

Starting to hate playing an assassin-ranger because no one wants to group. I have been stuck in Nahpui for 2 days waiting to get a team for the mission. I leave the game running and every so often spam or directly request to join parties and no dice.

What anet needs to change is how the damage is set up. Up front damage should be about the same as a war except that assassins can't take damage as well, but backstabbing damage should be upped 20-30% imo. It would force people to learn how to play the assassin properly by using stealth and waiting for wars to engage first. Groups would seek assassins out for the potential damage they could do. Otherwise the assassin has nothing to offer.
I know this is a valid idea that would fix a lot of things about the assassin, but I also know that they won't impliment it because it would probably take a lot of programming to get it to work right.

Phades · May 29, 2006, 07:00 AM // 07:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaserLight

I've targeted players well outside the aggro range Phades, I have no clue what you're talking about. As for the Guild Lord, point, but as it stands teleports are so much garbage in PvE and that's just not good. Even 110% aggro bubble would work, but for Bob's sake Anet, do something.

Target~affect. It would be a rather pain in the but to cycle target through past the backline monks just to have any assassin targeted in the event that they might teleport into the mid to backranks. Even then, you still could not affect them with anything.

Spoony · May 29, 2006, 01:05 PM // 13:05

I wonder , when will we get to a compromise.

...

Perhaps we could get a single list of what we problems do assassins have, and 1 or 2 (or more) ideas how to solve that problem and what do we actually want. The thing is, i have no idea which ideas to take , and which not, when you all argue all the time what to have, and what to not have. The thing is, when i sign your idea, the next day someone says that's not the way it should be solved and it should be solved other way, or not at all.
Just please ,at least try getting me a list of what each of you would like. Doing that, don't try to give ideas that simply can't be solved, or which takes lots of time to make by the programmers, the Anet.

Chikara · May 29, 2006, 01:58 PM // 13:58

Ì do not think there are so much problems with sins. Actually i'm playing one everyday and i really enjoy my char. I can kick some ass, and be killed too... thats the way a game goes. Do you want to be the most powerful guy?
We're just about damage dealing
They must wear light armor ( 70 ) , they are sins... not tank or whatever.
I sure deal lots of dmg in pvp, in one combo you can kill someone. Only problems are guys with evade/block, but youve skill to counter those.

If we need some improvment i would say its about Shadow step...
AoD, etc... are nice and useful skills but not enough. We have to get into the fight with full life, like all sins have to.
So i'm more for a improvment of shadow step cast range.
Like we could teleport as far as a long bow can fire.
Do not forget some roleplaying stuff, i really dont want to have heavier armor etc...

unholy guardian · May 29, 2006, 02:31 PM // 14:31

well heres a couple that i can think of, also people said

1 pugs think we suck, so maybe on the "rebalance" they could hype of the sin

?

2 the damage should be up'ed, in pve i have yet to see an occasion where killing something faster was better than the warrior way of killing, espcially vs those afflicted with flesh of my flesh.

3 Critical strikes should no deminish the chances on higher, or decrease on lower levels, you don't see soul reaping lessen when a level 28 dies..

4 Shadow steping, increase the radius, people think it might on balance things, but guess what, shadow step in too early and guess where your party is? Yeah, so it would overpower anything.

5 shadow refuge, it is equal to junk, at least remove the while attacking part, anet should want us to not attack, or at least make it so you don't want to wait around for like 50 health, which is sometimes tempting, but very very bad

6 horn of the ox, in pve the mobs aka blobs, are a lot of times not knocked down, they should remove that condition, its just a stupid one.

well thats all i can think of for now..

sinican · May 29, 2006, 03:19 PM // 15:19

first off one of the problems we have here in this board is PvP vs PvE...

In PvP the general consensus is that Assissins do just fine... i concur to that and personally I can relate to why... it has everything to do with the assassins abilities to land critical strikes and how effective they are all the way up to and against lvl 20 creatures/players...

at lvl 20 everything is fine their defences their dmg their critical strikes...

I think one main issue that needs to be addresses is that portion of the character... the character is so highly developed on crtiical strikes and when it comes to that point where the assassin can no longer land them reliably because we max out at lvl 20 and the creatures go lvl 21+ we are screwed...

so my main suggestion at this point is to make critical strikes relative to how dmg is calculated...

through character developement while we meed min requirements on weapons we do a portion of our potential dmg when we reach lvl 20 and once again are still meating the requirements of our weapons we are doing 100% of our dmg potential

the only thing affecting the dmg past lvl 20 is the armor rating on creatures on how much dmg makes it through...

critical strikes should relate the same way after lvl 20 if we have a 38% chance to land a critical strike at lvl 20 creatures that are lvl 25 should not negate that chance it should be the armor of the mob that lowes the dmg our criticals do but not whether we land them or not...

this goes hand in hand wtih how dbl strikes are...we know dbl strikes dont work while activating skills... thats fine but again they drop off the chart when the mobs are lvl 21+

we are using daggers... for the love of... daggers should be swinging faster than swords...

if we are supposed to be soft targets and not hearty at all then their needs to be more escape skills ONE THAT ARE PART OF THE CHAIN... add some dual attacks that active shaddow stepping from the attack...

we have lead/offhand/dual attacks make these escape attack chains a dualoffhand to require following a dual attack or something...

otherwise the problem im having at this point is that whilst fighting lvl 28 mobs even though im not the one agroing and i am shaddow stepping in for a kill i cant even execute an attack chain fast enough to get it off before im targets and SMASHED TO PIECES because againsdt these folks theyare doing 100+ dmg again my shiat armor... so whats up with this...

now again i attribute this to the fact that i can hardly land critical strikes... crits are what keep my defences rolling (the measly 65% block chance i get from crit def) they are what keeps my health from dropping so fast (30health from landing crits with way of perfection) and they are what sustains my energy so i can land my chain one attack after another without pausing

BUT I CANT DO THAT BECAUSE OF HOW CRITICAL STRIKES AND DBL STRIKES NOT WORKING AGAINST LVL 21+ MOBS

and i want to point out something... all classes have their signature methods... and the one chosen for assassins is high dmg low defences... well every other class has methose to break out of the mold... defensive monks... mm necros ss necros etc etc... the assassin doesn't have a setup to become a hearty low dmg attacker they are almost forced into the mold that they are squishy targets and are ONLY GOOD FOR ONE THING... there isnt much playable variaties of the assassin class.. and i agree that deadly arts needs some love... youd thing that atr would be what makes the assassin a DEADLY one yet umm its totally negligable...

Lambentviper · May 29, 2006, 03:26 PM // 15:26

during the FPE, shadow refuge did this:

give the +x health regeneration
heal whether attacking or not at end
take half base damage

ANet needs to put the "recieve half damage" mod back into shadow refuge if its going to be the only really usable heal.

Deaths Charge has a 60 second cast time!! andit only gets you like 120 health!

Heart of Shadow has a 15 second cast time and only provides about 60-70 health! Of course, this is hopeing you dont teleport into another aggro or that you even get hit once you use it.

Way of Perfection is pretty much useless unless you want to solo Last Stand on the tutorial island.

Seraface · May 29, 2006, 04:42 PM // 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lambentviper

during the FPE, shadow refuge did this:

give the +x health regeneration
heal whether attacking or not at end
take half base damage

ANet needs to put the "recieve half damage" mod back into shadow refuge if its going to be the only really usable heal.

Deaths Charge has a 60 second cast time!! andit only gets you like 120 health!

Heart of Shadow has a 15 second cast time and only provides about 60-70 health! Of course, this is hopeing you dont teleport into another aggro or that you even get hit once you use it.

Way of Perfection is pretty much useless unless you want to solo Last Stand on the tutorial island.

I think you mean recharge time.

Karmaniac · May 29, 2006, 05:10 PM // 17:10

The truth IMO is that assassin as a profession is the least thought out. A unique combination of overbalancing and bad design.

1. Survivability: non-existent compared to a ordinary whammo with -7 base damage reduction, 120++ AL and some decent outsourced self heal. You'll be alright if your enchants won't get shattered, stances broken or if you manage to crit hit (and these happen with surprising frequency). And that as long as you are not the target of heavy or medium degen.

2. Shadow stepping: that's cool. Go on and take head start killing that monk. Okay, now you are focus fired by the whole mob how do you plan to get out?

3. How to defend against assassins attack: surprisingly easy. Assassin is a combination of caster and close combat fiend without sacrificing the weaknesses of either. Your efficiency will drop drastically if you are subjected to the following: diversion, e-denial, backfire, empathy, SS, degen, cripple, blind, block/evasion, enchant/hex removal, kiting, SoJ, elemental damage, physical damage, holy damage, dark damage, funny damage or if foe is being healed.

4. Case sensitivity: You do good damage if you actually manage to deliver it. highly specific conditions are to be met before they go off. It's one thing to have a weakness in your build and another one altogether to have multiple. Come on: to be 3/8 useful for 30 secs just because your lead got blocked, 4/8 useful just because your off-hand condition wasn't met. You get the idea.

Just to name a few. The efficiency and fun of playing pve is sacrificed for the benefit of lore and pvp. Even if the most fundamental problems were addressed the initial damage has already been done: everybody hates assassins.

Lambentviper · May 29, 2006, 05:20 PM // 17:20

PvE seems to be the biggest of assassin's weaknessess.

PvP they are the strongest and most widely worried about classes allied monks and soft targets talk about.

But the PvE engine and way of mob after mob just makes it hard for an assassin to find a place

Spoony · May 29, 2006, 05:57 PM // 17:57

I agree with you, Lambent on your opinions.

Ok, so let's see what do we have here. That's the stuff i'm going to write in Sardelac a bit later.

1) Deadly arts skills mostly unuseful, those needed to be improved

2) Bit higher shadowstepping radius, long bow range should be enough.

3) Shadow refuge, remove the "healed when attacked" to "heals you for" and bring back "take half damage". Since, come on, its only mare 4 seconds, that can save assasins life.

4) Critical defences either take up the duration to 10 seconds, or the recharge to 15 seconds.

5) Daggers should be swinged slightly faster than swords

6) Critical strikes and double strikes are meant to have the same chance vs a 20 lvl foe, and vs higher than 20 lvl foe.

7) Assasins should have an easier life in pve. Almost anything can help.

8) Improve several skills of the assassins so that healers (monks, or rits, or whatever) won't have to heal the assasins so much and be able to concentrate for doing something else (like healing other party members, not only assasin(s))

9) Make several combo skills of assasin to chain with each other better, to remove the opinion that 1 combo is better than another, or that there is one best combo to beat 'em all.
(for example, phoenix->horns of the ox->spider->twisting fangs)

10) More useful mods on armors, so that Assasin armor will be better or equal to Rangers(70 + 30 vs elemental), but of course still worse than Warriors. ( Let's say Sentinels here, 100 + 16 from shields + absorb)

Whoa, i managed a 10:P, mah lucky numba:P

I think that'll do. If you don't like either of those, please just write the number down, and say why you don't like it, or customise it.

sinican · May 29, 2006, 07:19 PM // 19:19

they are all fine individually but if they all went in together i think the asn would be overpowered... don't you???

alot of those could be this "or" that

the asn still needs some downsides...

just for example on refuge bringing back the unconditional heal part may be all the skill needs to be more "balanced"

critical strikes and dbl strikes alone with the faster attack speed may be ample so we could do without uping our armor... same goes if we were to have a larger stepping radius

Critical defence may also not need faster duration time or recharge time if we are swinging faster and actually landing critical strikes like i want to believe we were intended to...but get busted by KD's and stuff that would disallow action for 6 seconds...

it is actually my belief that they unknowling have criticals working the way they are against lvl 21+ mobs because they have to only really worry about making sure everyone is balanced pvp wise at a cap of lvl 20

unholy guardian · May 29, 2006, 08:00 PM // 20:00

maybe they should revamp the deadly arts in the pve arts :P?

fallot · May 29, 2006, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by LambentViper

give the +x health regeneration
heal whether attacking or not at end
take half base damage

That is incorrect. Shadow Refuge gave no health regeneration during the FPE, nor did it do so during the PvP preview event. I don't like the current Shadow Refuge (with its attack requirement for the greater heal) but the previous one was overpowered. I've said otherwise before, but I was wrong, the half-damage part of the skill was just too damn good.

At the moment, Shadow Refuge is a usable heal. Slightly awkward to use, and needs some improvements, but its usable.