Curse

Spoony · May 26, 2006, 08:14 PM // 20:14

In this topic, i would like to discuss and know other people's opinion on a certain topic. Many assasins happen to be rejected by classical teams, as they havent got that something that would make them as good as any other class. Id like you, to say what would You like to be changed in assasins.

In your posts, dont write stuff like, how should assasins behave, or some other stuff that Anet can't change. Write what changes would you like to welcome in an update for an assasin. That could be many things such as:

- Assasins armor stats or/and look
- Assasins Skills
- Anything else that you think should be changed, and can be changed, that is all about assasins

When this thread wares off, i shall take the best ideas and post it in sardelac sanitarium, to save Forum masters the time.

EDIT nr 4!
The ideas already posted both here, and on Sardelac, if you'd like to leave a comment then go this way -> http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?t=3043557

If you know about anything else that haven't been mentioned here in the post, please write a reply

.

sinican · May 26, 2006, 10:56 PM // 22:56

i blame it all on the dependancy assassin have on critical strikes and how the critical strike chance lessens dramatically after lvl 20 because of the higher level of the creatures...

retroactively affects the entire class

critical strikes is needed to sustain energy to deliver conditions sustain defence and to supply health regeneration... there are quite a few nice skills that depend on landing a critical strike that all become pretty much useless half way through cantha because its harder and harder to land the strikes

the class is very dependant on 3 of the 4 stats way too much... which lessens that types of builds and lessens uniqueness from asn to asn...

Critical Strikes should play more part in how often the asn can land a strike... currently Dagger Mastery offers higher critical strike chance...

and to go further something else that could have made the asn more usable is the ability to dbl strike... which is completely null if you use attack skills... and if you dont use attack skills you no longer have that high dmg that asns are good for(THE ONLY THING THEY ARE GOOD FOR)

come to think of it that says it right now the only thing asns are good for is dmg spiking and though they can dish out that dmg they cant maintain that ability because they get chewed up so bad by everything...

its like having a smiting monk without the healing capabilities or the range...

the asn needs to be able to sustain their dmg output and right now the only good defence for the asn is to retriet

what good is the dmg if you cant stay alive long enough to deliver it

lord_shar · May 27, 2006, 12:56 AM // 00:56

70 armor is perfectly fine for a ranger or other long range damage dealer, but not a primary melee class like an assassin. This is why the current assassin gets so little or no love from the general GW PUG's. Yes, they are great at delivering damage but can never perform sustained melee combat without a warrior secondary.

I would suggest ANET raise base end game assassin armor from 70 up to 75 or even 80. This would allow them to be a little more survivable without being over-powered.

JMHO...

LaserLight · May 27, 2006, 01:57 AM // 01:57

Armor's fine. Damage isn't.

All Dagger Mastery skills should recieve a +10 damage boost, minimum. Assassins have limited defenses and armor barely above caster levels and as has been pointed out, are typically reliant on three of their four attributes to be effective. Their attack skills aren't as flexible as a Warrior's either, though I do like the combination system. Still, these guys should be hitting like the Wrath of God whenever they unload, and they just aren't. Yes, a proper Dagger stream can out-punch most Warrior's attacks, but they require an extra attack to do so (GPD->Horns->Spider->Twisting vs. Evis, Exec., Pen.) and a good deal more delicate preparation. And even then, it only works because we get six attacks to their three with aformentioned combos.

A shot of steroids please, Anet.

LaserLight · May 27, 2006, 02:05 AM // 02:05

Crap, double post. Pardone moi.

*Self-immolates in shame*

Lambentviper · May 27, 2006, 02:37 AM // 02:37

In PvP i think the assassin is way to powerful. Not that i mind, as killing monks wthout them casting is quite fun...but today i made 4k faction in RA in 2 hours....and got about 5-6 complaints of my assassins damage capabilites.

Shroud of Silence, then follow through with a 2 dual-attack skill set and the monk it gone!!

Valerius · May 27, 2006, 02:40 AM // 02:40

imo... armor, weapons and attributes are fine

the skills need to be changed tho...

such as having only one DM AoE attack... which is Death Blossom... sure it's a great skill... but it is also a Duel Attack and has a 12 sec recharge... if you miss that offhand attack your even more useless then what you already are in PvE... imo they should add a lead and offhand DM AoE attack

sinican · May 27, 2006, 03:34 AM // 03:34

yea... i know why ppl wont take assassins its because they suck like Noobs toward endgame... even earlier...

crap has been killing me in 2-3 hits...

cant be self suficient because the healing and defence capabiltiies are severely lacking...

you had to expect their would be imbalance eventually since mobs get lvl 20+ all players are stuck at lvl 20 and a lot of the assassins abilities depend on landing critical strikes to sustain energy/health/defence... it just isnt possible to keep up with anything lvl24 or higher...

at the least with the way the assassin is set up they should be able to swoop in to a group take something out and have a chance at the least...

Im taking way to much dmg out here....

perhaps shadow arts should passively provide a chance to evade or something...

and assassin should totaly be able to 1 on 1 something... what kind of assassination attempt is this crap... you cant take anything out without help anymore...

yea im ranting but its rediculous how bad we alll suck even if we do have the best "assassin" build if that build still sucks compared to eveyrthing else...

rangers healers warriors have better defensive skills than we do... if we are supposed to be dmg dealers how comes we cant even stay in the fight long enough to kill something without haveing to RUN LIKE A SISSY...

where are the counter attacks throws kicks chokes

LaserLight · May 27, 2006, 05:37 AM // 05:37

We're Assassins, not streetfighters

Still, I agree in theory with that, but I still think the answer is to hit harder, not hurt less. Hurting less is the Warrior's approach, and if we get more and more defenses and better armor, soon we'll just be skinnier Warriors with shorter blades. this is the Assassin here, folks, the master of the single-target kill. We don't need more AoE attacks, we don't need better defenses, we don't need a passive dodge bonus in Shadow Arts (though it would be nice, and broken as hell on a W/A), we need to be able to hit someone like a dump truck on NOS and leave them wondering where their marbles are. That's what Anet promised us with this class, and it's a promise I hope like hell they'll eventually keep!

lord_shar · May 27, 2006, 05:57 AM // 05:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaserLight

We're Assassins, not streetfighters

Still, I agree in theory with that, but I still think the answer is to hit harder, not hurt less. Hurting less is the Warrior's approach, and if we get more and more defenses and better armor, soon we'll just be skinnier Warriors with shorter blades. this is the Assassin here, folks, the master of the single-target kill. We don't need more AoE attacks, we don't need better defenses, we don't need a passive dodge bonus in Shadow Arts (though it would be nice, and broken as hell on a W/A), we need to be able to hit someone like a dump truck on NOS and leave them wondering where their marbles are. That's what Anet promised us with this class, and it's a promise I hope like hell they'll eventually keep!

The problem with the "improved offense" approach is that spike-damage output goes through the roof and takes any sort of game balance with it. As of now, a single assassin can singlehandedly drop any spell caster faster than any other class. The assassin has plenty of offense and condition delivery, so why increase the already-high damage numbers even higher? Yes, they don't do well in direct frontal assaults vs. heavily armored targets, but this was done by intentional design. Assassins are supposed to be able to kill with well placed strikes, stealthy efficiency, and hit/run tactics. They are not supposed to be instant-kill melee-caster hybrids.

Right now, most assassins fold with just a couple monsters hitting them simultaneously, hence my suggestion for minor armor level improvement. Ranger-level armor is not feasible for assassins given the ranger's missle-based offense vs. the assassin's melee skill foundation. The armor should not be as heavy as warrior armor, but it should be better than ranger leather armors.

LaserLight · May 27, 2006, 06:19 AM // 06:19

Anyone else been observing/reading match reports? We're almost always relegated to the roles of NPC hunter and flag harassment from what I've seen, with relatively few people bothering to use Assassins in this squishy-squisher mode everyone paints them as. I'm not asking for two hits to slay God, but I suppose what I want is enough damage capacity to pressure away even the Almighty Gods of Warr. As it stands, the overweight middle-aged men wielding lumberjack equipment scare the average Assassin shitless, and that is Not Right.

Damage boosts, Anet. Give us the blistering hand grenade with feet you promised.

SparhawkJC · May 27, 2006, 05:42 PM // 17:42

I really think we have a problem with armor. Look at the other "non-squishie" characters. Warriors get 80 armor and +20 against physical. Rangers get 70 armor and +30 against elemental. I think the benefits of nightstalker armor should have been for all assassin armors. 70 armor is fine, but no inherent bonuses? Sure we get another pip of energy, but how often does that come into play with zealous daggers and criticacl strikes investment?

sinican · May 27, 2006, 06:12 PM // 18:12

we need one or the other...

obviousely Assassins are fine PvP wise... as has been said they can deliver ample dmg and get their chains off in PvP.... the assassin does accell because of those critical strikes and sometimes though dbl strikes they are what gives us our energy and in some cases out health back

the problem is that in PvE creatures are lvl 20+ and those criticals that make us viable and those dbl strikes are harder and harder to land until it gets to the point that critical strikes and dbl strikes are almost non existant (aka lvl 28 creatures)...

there needs to be some point where creatures lvl 20+ dont have better chance to avoid our dbl strikes and critical strikes that is part of the reason we are useless expecially when 2/3 of Cantha consists of lvl20+ creatures...

critical strikes and dbl strikes perhaps should be relative to how our weapon dmg works... that at lvl 20 we are at fll potential with our skills and the only thing that should be affected is the dmg our criticals do vs creature armor not whether we land them or not...

it affects everything for some of us... i cant get those heals if i cant land a critical hit i cant regen that energy cant refresh my defences cant cause them to bleed with sharpen daggers ...

again i state that assassins are great all the way up to when creatures are over lvl 20 then we can do nothing to stay viable... we cant get better chance of crits or dbl strikes and our armor is that of a ranger(distance) yet we have to be in the meat to do our dmg...

yes we can take out single targets but at the same time we are getting lvl 20+ creatures we are also getting large mobs where is imposible for our assassins to take on a single target without getting blasted to heck by everything...

when ur against lvl 24+ elementalist we cant even solo them they kill us in a few hits before we can get the full chain off... thats obsurd...

if we trully are meant to be backline fighters then yes our armor should have better protection against NON-MELEE attacks at the least...

Im ok with the dmg i do im ok with my armor im not ok with our survivability... we are force to be up close to deliver our dmg yet we cant take the heat needed to be there...

lord_shar · May 27, 2006, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Another suggestion: please re-evaluate temple strike. 25 seconds recharge seems insane for an elite delivering two short-duration conditions. ANET should consider 20 seconds (still higher than the original 15, but more useful than the current 25). As it is coded now, temple strike isn't really elite-class worthy.

Lambentviper · May 27, 2006, 07:06 PM // 19:06

For now i am just using Temple Strike to scare of warrios when they come to me. They see they are blinded then they leave me alone for a whole 4 seconds!!

Beguiling Haze pretty much owns Temple Strike by way of dealing with Casters, so Temple Strike does need to be fixed.

But i dont think enough people are looking into Critical Defenses. ANet reduced recharge time (im pretty sure) so that you can use it more. Take advantage of it when you can.

But whoever said we cant go 1 on 1 without more help is very wrong. Assassins are THE 1v1 characters. Dropping 400 damage to a monk or mesmer in a little over 6 seconds has something to be said for it.

Yukito Kunisaki · May 27, 2006, 07:18 PM // 19:18

The sin's non-elite shadow stepping skills are ridiculous in recharge.

I'm with Laser Light on this vote though. Stuffing a sin is akin to stuffing a warrior. That said, killing a sin is 10x easier since they don't have the inherent element/physical dmg resistance that warriors and rangers have.

For dying 10x faster, we deserve the chance to kill 10x faster...

Ditch the AoE bullshit skills, only the AoE escape skills like Return and Caltrops deserve to stay.

If the sin's arsenal of offensive moves were to be replaced with point to point nuking tactics, like a more deadly Moebius Strike for instance, that'd be nice.

Also, assassins should be given an armor penetrating skill. Seeping Wound? Degen? We need something that resembles Pentrating X that the other classes have...

Shiro was a warrior style class I believe and Visu [bless her sexy], is an assassin. If Visu can take a Warrior down, a sin should be able to as well. However, even with the armor penetration, a warrior should be able to kill a sin just as quickly if not quicker...

But LET THE SIN'S POWER GROW and his defense shrink.

Shadow Stepping is all the defense you need.

Spoony · May 27, 2006, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Ever tried to kill a Air of enchant prot monk with an assasin? pure waste of energy, and nothing. Assasins are not good in making damage to those that are able to protect themselves pretty well, such as some warriors rangers and little (but still few) monks. I didnt say the dmg on assassins isnt right, the thing isnt right that assasins mostly sacrafice themselves in fight situations. Warriors on the other hand, have heavy armor to deal with any solo opponent. If assasin didnt have so much conditions to give to an opponent, they would be certainly crap. They are always kicked out of teams, they dont have a good use for anything else, than just damage, which imo needs to be changed.

Lamb, consider this. Try soloing any 28 lvl character in pve, like a warrior or a ranger. The diffrence between assasins and any other class that any other class can do it, and assassins cant.

Vincent_v_valentine · May 27, 2006, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaserLight

Armor's fine. Damage isn't.
A shot of steroids please, Anet.

The damage works, its just that you need to make a combo. Anyway the armor is way to low for a close combat character. the attack skills costs from 5-10 energy each, that may work on the paper but not when you fight assasins have 25 energy whith the armor on. and i think they have 32 energy whith the energy-armor. that works on rangers beacous they have expertise which reduses the cost on attack skills. Critical strikes should have a simmilar effect...

Spoony · May 27, 2006, 07:28 PM // 19:28

I cant agree with you on that Yukito. Assasins arent just bombs you need to disarm, or either they will kill you. Assasins shouldnt be the classes killed in just a few hits.

In my opinion, assasins should have defenses similar to a warrior, but other than armor.

In my opinion, Assasin = some sort of Ninja. Like, ever saw a movie involving Ninjas? Theyre defenses are high, but are not placed in armor, it is put somewhere else. When its broken, assasins should have a skill that makes them go out of combat, and regain it. They do have them, return, recall, Aura of displacement does its work.

Imo, thats how the defenses should work in assasins

Spoony · May 27, 2006, 07:31 PM // 19:31

As i said, damage is certainly allright.

a combo of an assasin made of 3 skills should be more powerful than a warrior attack combo made of 3 skills, that way that warrior just does damage, and assasins does the same or a bit more but also makes the foe weaker (for example, conditions or other effects here).