Curse

Claymore · Jun 13, 2006, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Now talk about assassins sticking together, Good form Vecte.

Killmur · Jun 13, 2006, 06:16 PM // 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vecte

well killmur, i realise your distress in not being able to afford a nice pair of daggers, imo, any assassin should have a good pair of daggers. let me know what mods you like, and ill get you a pair.

Thanx for the offer Vecte. Through trial and error I will hopefuly make a stellar assasin out of my A/Mo. Never give up on a class. If it looks too hard to play then don't play that class. However if it does seem like a fun class then try playing it again. Same way with the assasin class.

Vecte · Jun 13, 2006, 06:22 PM // 18:22

well mate, the offer still stands. be cool to see some of you in game. my assassins name is Sektor Xiang. maybe ill see you sometime.

Human1 · Jun 14, 2006, 02:15 PM // 14:15

I just started one and I'll admit that I've died quite a few times. It's tough, even the lvl6 Kappas can own you forever. But I enjoy playing the class and am getting better at it.

namkey · Jun 15, 2006, 06:48 AM // 06:48

Hmm, just checked the statistics of my assasin.

Age: 25 hours
Deaths: 243

Tartarus1040 · Jun 15, 2006, 09:06 AM // 09:06

Age: 102 Hours 51 minutes
Deaths: 591
Result: I rarely die now.

I haven't finished the game yet because of the damned error 007's I keep getting. But I know how to survive in PvE, and I've been PvPing a lot with my Assassin/PvP Assassin. So I've been learning quite a bit about the class, and lemme tell ya, it's got some serious potential.

Xaero Gouki Kriegor · Jun 16, 2006, 07:04 AM // 07:04

completed the game on my assassin, gotta say i am still glad to be alive and not be dead from a furious heart attack from the pain and anguish i had to go through to get groups. i ended up teaming up with 1 mm from my guild and rest henchies just to get raisu palace done, and yes it can be henched fully, mm just makes it alot easier, make sure you take danika and talon

dfscott · Jun 16, 2006, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

Do what I did.
Make your assassin for now and grab the zealous daggers with one of your other characters when you get your green option at the end of factions. It makes all the difference in the world.

I did the same thing. My mesmer finished the game and didn't see anything she was interested in, so I picked up the Ceremonials for my 'sin. In fact, I still have an unused amulet since my rit wasn't interested in anything either. I was thinking about getting Shiro's Blades just because they look cool.

Spura · Jun 17, 2006, 01:05 PM // 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilebill

Many assassins do die a lot. I did at first. The assassin has a steep learning curve. The most important lesson is get in, do what you can, get out at the first sign of trouble.

You end up doing way less damage than a tank. I don't see how people can't figure this out. If you just port in and out and most of the time don't fight, then your impact on fight is gonna be small. You can't outdps a tank if you keep avoiding fight. And in the end that tank will do more damage than your constantly retreating assassin AND at the same time keep enemies away from casters. So any tank > assassin in pve. The only pve builds worth anything are AP builds, because they have higher DPS than tanks.

WildmouseX · Jun 17, 2006, 03:03 PM // 15:03

why can't people comprehend that assassins and wars play compleately different roles. there is no point in continueing to compare apples to oranges.

tanks, by definition stand there in the front lines like idiots and get pounded on by other tanks and enemy casters. assassins stay back by your casters and mop up any foes that the tank lets run past him (*which they all do, in every fitght), then chases down the foes casters 1 at a time.

if a slow as hell war goes running around his back lines to defend his casters, or going after the enemy casters - all he does is open up his casters to being slaughtered by the other sides wars. just as if an assassin tries to take on a group of war's he dies.

tanks take the least ammout of intelgence to play, and due to this the majority of people playing them tend to believe that they can win a fight all by themselves, and don't give a rats arse about group stragity with the exception of haveing a monk to keep them alive.

the ability of the assassin to drop single targets faster then anyone (with maybe the exception of the mes), combined with a stragity of defending their casters, and takeing out enemy casters, makes quick work for the party as a whole.

an assassin defending the back line keeps monks alive to heal the tanks... an assassin teleporting into the enemy back lines and droping casters 1 at a time, keeps the tank from being hexed to death and stops their monks from healing the guys the tank is pounding on.

in short, the tank stands there takeing hits while the rest of the group kills the enemy, the assassin runs around defending the group and helping them take out the enemy. - two compleately different roles.

and yes, assassins drop enemies 1 on 1 faster then any war tank - even when takeing on wars... in the short time an assassin is attacking, he can do 200 - 300 hp of damage in 3 hits, something that takes the tank about 60 seconds of low dmg auto swinging to build adrenlyn for... in that same dmg spike, the assassin also add's 12-18 seconds of bleading, posion, deap wound, and with the right teleport even cripple. thussly imobiliseing and increaseing his dmg after he has disengaged his target. - the majority of the guys i kill with my ass fall over well after i've teleported away and started after someone else. in fact the only time i even get hit by the death nova from an afflicted i kill, is when i sacrifice myself on a monk to ensure that he drops, and i tend to kill twice as many afflicted as my teams tanks do.

bottom line is, if your only smart enough to sit there and watch your character auto swing for a min untill you can use a skill - stick with a tank. -if your smart enough to be able to watch the fight, pick stratigic targets, and exicute an actual well thought out attack patern, then you can do more for the group then any tank could posibly achive.

DieInBasra · Jun 17, 2006, 03:37 PM // 15:37

Quote:

do 200 - 300 hp of damage in 3 hits, something that takes the tank about 60 seconds of low dmg auto swinging to build adrenlyn for

An eviscerate war can do 250-300 damage in two hits, and that takes 10.5 second to build the adren for that, shorter then the recharge on almost all assassin combos. Don't post crap like that. If people played tanks well, that is, with one or two tanking skills and then damageing skills, they would completely outclass the assassin damage-wise as well as being harder to kill.

Spura · Jun 17, 2006, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildmouseX

why can't people comprehend that assassins and wars play compleately different roles. there is no point in continueing to compare apples to oranges.

tanks, by definition stand there in the front lines like idiots and get pounded on by other tanks and enemy casters. assassins stay back by your casters and mop up any foes that the tank lets run past him (*which they all do, in every fitght), then chases down the foes casters 1 at a time.

if a slow as hell war goes running around his back lines to defend his casters, or going after the enemy casters - all he does is open up his casters to being slaughtered by the other sides wars. just as if an assassin tries to take on a group of war's he dies.

tanks take the least ammout of intelgence to play, and due to this the majority of people playing them tend to believe that they can win a fight all by themselves, and don't give a rats arse about group stragity with the exception of haveing a monk to keep them alive.

the ability of the assassin to drop single targets faster then anyone (with maybe the exception of the mes), combined with a stragity of defending their casters, and takeing out enemy casters, makes quick work for the party as a whole.

an assassin defending the back line keeps monks alive to heal the tanks... an assassin teleporting into the enemy back lines and droping casters 1 at a time, keeps the tank from being hexed to death and stops their monks from healing the guys the tank is pounding on.

in short, the tank stands there takeing hits while the rest of the group kills the enemy, the assassin runs around defending the group and helping them take out the enemy. - two compleately different roles.

and yes, assassins drop enemies 1 on 1 faster then any war tank - even when takeing on wars... in the short time an assassin is attacking, he can do 200 - 300 hp of damage in 3 hits, something that takes the tank about 60 seconds of low dmg auto swinging to build adrenlyn for... in that same dmg spike, the assassin also add's 12-18 seconds of bleading, posion, deap wound, and with the right teleport even cripple. thussly imobiliseing and increaseing his dmg after he has disengaged his target. - the majority of the guys i kill with my ass fall over well after i've teleported away and started after someone else. in fact the only time i even get hit by the death nova from an afflicted i kill, is when i sacrifice myself on a monk to ensure that he drops, and i tend to kill twice as many afflicted as my teams tanks do.

bottom line is, if your only smart enough to sit there and watch your character auto swing for a min untill you can use a skill - stick with a tank. -if your smart enough to be able to watch the fight, pick stratigic targets, and exicute an actual well thought out attack patern, then you can do more for the group then any tank could posibly achive.

As dieinbasra pointed out, you numbers are mostly bull. I play assassin practically all the time, ever since factions got out, so I am not bashing something I don't know. And oh, I don't just autoattack and tank with assassin. It is also the reason why I don't buy this "different roles" crap. You are desperate to find a role, a reason for other players to take you along. And your reason is some kind of surgical strikes or something.

The whole reasoning is flawed, because you claim you take out opposing casters, something slow warrior can't.
- Well a warrior can sprint just as easily and do that, not to mention warrior with assassin secondary can easily use AoD.
- Also unless they are healers it usually doesn;t make much difference in pve who you kill first in a group.
- The problem of adrenaline is easily adressed by Auspicious Parry or Dragon Slash.
- Precision strikes can be carried out by casters. A simple Backfire will work on monk monsters just as well as your attacks.

Also when you teleport a lot in and out, you do less damage. It makes you like Air Elementalist that puts his ass in melee range.

The only build that does serious damage is AP one with black lotus strike and twising fangs. Being able to inflict deep wound on every target so rapidly is impressive. But you need to attack attack attack to be useful to the group, no teleporting around.

You see, there are dumb assassins, that die alot because they tank without proper skills. And then there are slightly smarter assholes who think they are godlike because they don't die because of teleports. None of them realise it takes more than staying alive to be useful party addition. And all the various parts of this supposed "role" of assassin are easily performed by various other classes. As much as I love assassin class, I am not blind to it's faults, which are too many(melee spiker with low armor ftl, low crit % on lvl 28 enemies, too many slots spent just to ass around the battlefield with teleports, vulnerable to warrior hate AND energy denial, attack skill chains are conditional, warrior's aren't).

If you wanna play pve with assassin get some kind of evasion on him, AP combo and some necro to give you OoV and no teleport skills.

WildmouseX · Jun 18, 2006, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieInBasra

An eviscerate war can do 250-300 damage in two hits, and that takes 10.5 second to build the adren for that, shorter then the recharge on almost all assassin combos. Don't post crap like that. If people played tanks well, that is, with one or two tanking skills and then damageing skills, they would completely outclass the assassin damage-wise as well as being harder to kill.

and there in lies the problem, most people don't play tanks well, but they get away with it cuz they can soak up dmg. then when they go try to play the ass the same as they play their tank they get burned for it.

and again - the war's job is to stand around fighting large groups of mele fighters.. a well balenced team generaly has 3 foes on each war. so if it takes 10.5 seconds to put that kind of dmg on 1 foe.. the war idealy needs at least 31.5 seconds to deal with his combat responsibilities (provided he only has to use it once on each foe)

now if there's no assassin stoping the rusher that's killing the wars monk, it's going to take him longer, cuz he'll have to be healing himself more..... and if there's no assassin spikeing the hell out of the enemy monk so the rest of the team can finish him off, the guy the war is trying to eviscerate is going to be getting healed more, takeing the war longer to kill him....... and if there's no assassin spikeing the other enemy casters for the rest of the team to finish off, the war takes a ton of armor ignoreing dmg for longer peroids of time.

so what do we see here? without assassins, the war takes more dmg for longer peroids of time, and has to fight for longer peroids of time, and has to worry about his casters getting bum rushed by someone he let run past him.

wars fight groups of wars, casters fight with casters, monks and rits heal and fight when they can, rangers set up ambush's and spread conditions around...and assassins defend their casters from way-word melee fighters and acts as quick spike support for the rest of team (be it helping the casters or helping the war). - everyone has a role they all need to play to be an efective group, be design.

WildmouseX · Jun 18, 2006, 02:57 AM // 02:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spura

As dieinbasra pointed out, you numbers are mostly bull. I play assassin practically all the time, ever since factions got out, so I am not bashing something I don't know. And oh, I don't just autoattack and tank with assassin. It is also the reason why I don't buy this "different roles" crap. You are desperate to find a role, a reason for other players to take you along. And your reason is some kind of surgical strikes or something.

i accussed war tanks of being auto attacking wastes of space, not assassins.

when you play your assassin, do you stand in the front line auto-fighting the large group he's fighting? if not, then you are filling a different role then he is. - (and if you are, you are dyeing alot)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spura

The whole reasoning is flawed, because you claim you take out opposing casters, something slow warrior can't.
- Well a warrior can sprint just as easily and do that, not to mention warrior with assassin secondary can easily use AoD.
- Also unless they are healers it usually doesn;t make much difference in pve who you kill first in a group.
- The problem of adrenaline is easily adressed by Auspicious Parry or Dragon Slash.
- Precision strikes can be carried out by casters. A simple Backfire will work on monk monsters just as well as your attacks.

i didn't claim that tanks are not capible of running around takeing out casters 1 at a time, i said if they did, then the enemy wars will rush the tanks caster line and obliterate his support group, starting with the monk that's healing him. - thussly makeing this perticular stragity a suicide run.

and yes it does make a difference with who you kill first in PvE.... when your war runs up and colects agro, but that one foe war decides to rush the back line, he best be the first taget the team takes out, or ya'll are gunna end up hurting big ( unless of course your team has a smart sin, then the sin has to take him out while the others pick out a juicey squishy)......if your teams got a MM, and is dependent on those minnions to fight front line (team with only 1 war and no ass for example), you best be dropping the necros that blow up the corpses faster then your team can raise....... more then 2 mez's on the other side is going to drop any tank, peroid. - why? cuz they deal dmg through armor, and alternate draining him (just sit and watch them sometime)

just because PvE is easy compared to PvP, doesn't mean that you don't need any stragity, or teamwork.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spura

Also when you teleport a lot in and out, you do less damage. It makes you like Air Elementalist that puts his ass in melee range.

The only build that does serious damage is AP one with black lotus strike and twising fangs. Being able to inflict deep wound on every target so rapidly is impressive. But you need to attack attack attack to be useful to the group, no teleporting around.

well, if you've got a picture in your mind of the ass teleporting away with every hit, then yes your idea of what will happen will become reality, too bad no-one ever has a consistantly clear picture of reality.

fact of the matter is, you fire off your 1st combo fast, then wait for them to recharge for a couple of seconds b4 you can fire them off again.

now you can either:

A: stay there auto attacking, while trying to compensate for dmg you do take by useing alot of secondary healing spells; and hopeing they don't decide to attack you back.

most of the time that's not going to be the case - most of the time they turn and smack you upside the head for half your life bar (provied your not useing runes, and have max armor). and then one or more of his buddies say " hey that looked fun, give me a turn". and then your heals fail to cover the added dmg - Bam - you die. (like most assassins i group with do)

Note: since daggers max at 19ish (17 + posibible +15% dmg mod) the attacks are mostly null anyway.

B: stand there and fire off a second combo, or paird up attacks. but since you hit him with a huge spike already, you are now a glowing threat to him, and those around him. so unless you've used your last 2-3 skill slots for dodgeing. guess what you may drop the guy you doubled combo'd, but you will get pounded by his buddies b4 your skills recharge, (like most assassins i've veiwed useing this stragity). - with caster level armor and health, you get to see how luckey of a punk you are.

furthermore in the generaly large fights, it often times requires at least 3 or 4 stances and steps + the heal - to keep from getting hurt-- with only the 2-3 slots this stragity allows, you can only realy count on your build for small fights only.

(and yes you are correct that there are attacks that charge very quickly, but they do ass for DMG (not refering to a sin this time). and the more attacks you throw, the more foes decide to attack you - takeing max dmg, long recharge; or week dmg, fast recharge combo's doesn't matter, you're still screwed the same way, eitherway)

C: use the remaining skill slots for dodgeing stances and shadowsteps, throw your combo, stand there dodgeing around untill it recharges.. -- this is avoiding dmg, which is what you HAVE to do to keep your assassin alive.

note: unless you are a real lone wolf and are somewhat isolated from your group, its often the case where a caster on your team will finish off your target while your dodgeing around, leaveing you walking around looking for another target anyway.

D: (my choice) run in and throw a spike combo + max conditions. - teleport out b4 anyone decides to agro you as a target, pick another target and watch your last one drop from all the conditions, pluss the rest of your team finishing him off.

A: never works, and is why most people trying to play assassins die - B: only works when you get lucky or use a teleport to leave after dealing 5 or so hits; and is why the rest of them die. - C: works nearly everytime, provided you brought enough stances and shadowsteps to stay dodgeing attacks untill you can use your combo again. - D: works nearly everytime, unless you decide to stick around and make sure you have finished off a monk who has death nova. --- speaking of which, if an ass is standing around fighting the afflicted untill they are on the ground, he will die from death nova's, it's only a matter of time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spura

You see, there are dumb assassins, that die alot because they tank without proper skills. And then there are slightly smarter assholes who think they are godlike because they don't die because of teleports. None of them realise it takes more than staying alive to be useful party addition.

correct, it does take more then staying alive, it takes the assassin playing his role. -- and his role is to defend his casters from the enemy mele fighters, then work in conjunction with them to take out the enemy casters; while the tank stands around getting pounded on untill all the guys hitting him are dead. - however, in order to fullfill your job as an assassin, you must stay alive. (an assassin laying face down in the dirt because he died while trying to double combo an enemy all the way dead is worthless to everyone.)

- an effective team manages their health and plays all of the roles that their individul class's are designed to play.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spura

And all the various parts of this supposed "role" of assassin are easily performed by various other classes. As much as I love assassin class, I am not blind to it's faults, which are too many(melee spiker with low armor ftl, low crit % on lvl 28 enemies, too many slots spent just to ass around the battlefield with teleports, vulnerable to warrior hate AND energy denial, attack skill chains are conditional, warrior's aren't).

name any other class besides the war, that can immobilise, spike, and drop enemy mele fighters that get behind the front line, with eficent speed and with enough skills to still be useible for their regular combat dueties? -- (and i'll add that while the war is capible of defending his casters from the 1-2 guys that rush past him with his normal skill set, in doing so he breaks the agro of the ones that did decide to attack him and unleash's more evil into his suport line then if he would have just stayed put, and again makeing this a suicide move)

sure el's have whirl wind, inferno, wards and so on... but those take space's away from his AOE abilities, and wards do eventually end.----and sure mes's can drop them as fast.... but they don't have anything but interupts to prevent the rusher from severly hurting a teammate or two, leaveing your team's caster line healing each other; instead of healing the tank and attacking the enemy group----and sure the monk has sheild (or sig) of judgement, +their smiteing spells... but again more skills space dedicated to dealing with rusher's means less for healing.----- and sure the ranger can set up traps to do the job, but traps take time to set, and how often does a team sit around waiting for a mine feild to be deployed? (aside from in UW or FoW).

for every skill the other casters have to dedicate to protecting themselves from the rushers, means less elemental AoE dmg: less healing: less mesmer mesmering: and less mass condition arrow barages.

the assassin's normal skill line up, makes him ideal for dealing with the rushers, and ideal for inital strike's on the enemy squishies.-- like everyone else in the group, the assassin isn't a winning machine all by himself. and while yes, the assassin can drop individuals all by himself, at the risk of takeing dmg - he truely shines when he maximises his dmg on a target in conjunction with the rest of the casters, and then bugs out (teleport, dodge, run away whatever) while they finish it off - they all share in a realy quick kill and everyone stays alive enough to work together on the next target imediately.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spura

If you wanna play pve with assassin get some kind of evasion on him, AP combo and some necro to give you OoV and no teleport skills.

evade or teleport, it doesn't matter what you do, the point of both is too avoid takeing dmg. - the style one uses is irrelevent, as long as the outcome is the same.

lansid_drakken · Jun 18, 2006, 10:30 PM // 22:30

If I take a melee henchman... it tanks...
If I take a caster henchman... it casts...
If I take a ranged henchman... it does its ranged thing...
If I take an assassin henchman... it assassinates itself...

Not rippin on assassins or those who have done well to play them right... but even the AI has a hard time playing it right.

Saider maul · Jun 18, 2006, 10:40 PM // 22:40

the assasins abilities lack what ever other stance class has. the 75% evade/block with durations of 7-20 seconds.
the ability to shadowstep is a non atribute skills as is any teleport defense.

making the assassin a better secondary then a primary.

The assassin was poorly designed and misrepresentated in the release from that which we had in the preview.

I still say start a petition to set the evade and % evade/block to all skills and to the equality of the preview.

At this point they are not worth having because getting a group is near impossible due to their stereotype.

isamu kurosawa · Jun 18, 2006, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by lansid_drakken

If I take a melee henchman... it tanks...
If I take a caster henchman... it casts...
If I take a ranged henchman... it does its ranged thing...
If I take an assassin henchman... it assassinates itself...

Not rippin on assassins or those who have done well to play them right... but even the AI has a hard time playing it right.

more like:
If I take a melee henchman... it Over Aggro's...
If I take a caster henchman... it Tanks...
If I take a ranged henchman...It does nothing...
If I take an assassin henchman... it hops around, tries ot tank then like the other's dies...

hench dont do their jobs right either, especialy the new healer hench ressing people AFTER you ressed at a shrine

Saider maul · Jun 19, 2006, 12:46 AM // 00:46

yes the entire AI is BUGGED.
They say they dont make the henchies better because then people wont play together.

Realize alot are children. Alot have not clue. many think they are invincible agroing 3-4 groups then run back die and blame you for allowing it to happen.

The henchie need to be as good as the actual players should be so we do not have to constantly deal with idiots,leeches,agro happy wammo's and excessivly young nieve children.

ubermancer · Jun 19, 2006, 03:36 AM // 03:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pick Me

However, I think the Assassin is one of the best characters in the game, purely for the learning experience.

I agree with that.