Curse

just rude · Jun 16, 2006, 03:50 AM // 03:50

It's you who are unskilled, period. I don't mean the assasins. I completed the whole game with henchies, when I was on my assassin.

I have since run my mesmer through and my warrior, and I have to tell you most of you people are unskilled, period. It's not the assassin who are unskiled its you. I went through this game(factions) faster with my assassin( and the henchies) WAY faster than I did with a mesmer and warrior.

Sin hate is a joke. It's not the assassins that are unskillful, it's you, you just suck.

Here, Here its about time this was said

BigTru · Jun 16, 2006, 06:27 AM // 06:27

You do realize how many people (other professions) have gone through the entire game with henchman, no?

Assassins bring nothing special to the table. If they do deal more damage than a warrior, it's marginal, and not worth giving up a spot that could be filled by a tank.

lord_shar · Jun 16, 2006, 06:29 AM // 06:29

Hmm, smells like a troll who hasn't been to Urgoz's Warrens or the Deep

Claymore · Jun 16, 2006, 01:20 PM // 13:20

Ummm you may think its about time that this was said, but the fact is it has been said already, months ago.
Just to let you know, the band wagon left.

WildmouseX · Jun 16, 2006, 02:04 PM // 14:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTru

You do realize how many people (other professions) have gone through the entire game with henchman, no?

Assassins bring nothing special to the table. If they do deal more damage than a warrior, it's marginal, and not worth giving up a spot that could be filled by a tank.

ummmm yes it is... the tanks job is to stand toe to toe with their tanks and just sit there swinging his weapon forever. the assassins job is to run around in the back lines and take out casters, or the wars that rush your casters.

without an assassin, the tank has to break his agro and drag more foes into his caster lines to save them from being killed by the guy he let run by. furthermore, he has to stand there pounding on war's while getting smacked around by the other sides casters, if he runs at their casters he opens his casters up to allthe guys he should be fighting.

they play 2 compleately different roles, a tank can't fill an assassins position anymore then the assassin can tank. knowing the difference between the two is how you put together an effective group.

DeathWise · Jun 16, 2006, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTru

You do realize how many people (other professions) have gone through the entire game with henchman, no?

Assassins bring nothing special to the table. If they do deal more damage than a warrior, it's marginal, and not worth giving up a spot that could be filled by a tank.

Really, just shut it. I'm getting fed up with people constantly claiming Assassins don't bring anything to the table. Why did you think Arena Net created the character, for no reason whatsoever? Think again.

Assassin actually do bring something special to the table. First off, their damage output higher than those of warriors. This is mainly due to the fact that Assassins have to do combo's, which require a certain sequence of attacks which in the end results in a very powerful combo. Why do you think Warriors would have higher damage if they aren't even obligated to execute Attack Skills in some order. Warriors do not need to perform a combo, which obviously makes their damage output a tad bit lower. I have played Assassin vs. Warrior often enough to know that Assassins are superior. (this is different in PvE though, since they serve other purposes) Also, it greatly depends on percentages, namely Critical Hits and Double Attacks. (note to also take a higher attack speed into consideration) Thus damage output is higher to that of a Warrior when correctly used.

Secondly, Assassin have hunting and chasing abilities superior to any other class. The have a many easy crippling abilities such as Leaping Mantis Sting, Caltrops, Crippling Dagger, etc. And while chasing a foe, you can still perform and maintain your maximum damage output. (perhaps even more if an opponent is running with his back turned to you due to the increase of Critical Hits) Ofcourse any other class has crippling abilities, but another aspect that distinguishes the Assassin from every other class is their unique ability to perform a wide variety over TP's. With this, they can easily outrun any opponent in hunting and chasing which is much more lethal than any other class.

In PvE however, places are much more crowded and filled with mobs. Obviously it will become harder for Assassins to do their job correctly. But this absolutely does not make it impossible, especially not if you spend time with this class and get to know it and learn how to use it.

Assassins are a very versatile class that can perform diverse actions. I admit they are more limited (especially in PvE) than Warriors because of their higher defense and health, but their damage output is higher and their chasing abilities are superior which makes Assassins unique and actually do makes them able to bring something special to the table.

Priest Of Sin · Jun 16, 2006, 04:37 PM // 16:37

<--Message Edited Out Due To Words Not Fit For This World-->

Barkroot Bonecrunch · Jun 16, 2006, 04:48 PM // 16:48

To me assasins are a bunch of ninja wannabes, and they dont add anything better to the game. There armour is weaker than warriors and so is there damage. That is my opinion flame me all you want i dont care but this will be my opinion and always will be.

fallot · Jun 16, 2006, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathWise

their damage output is higher and their chasing abilities are superior

Prove it.

Their damage output is not higher, their ability to do large amounts of damage immediately (as opposed to a warrior who must charge up adrenaline) is their one unique trait.

As for chasing abilities, there is nothing inherent in the profession that makes them better at catching up to fleeing targets. Both Warriors and Assassins have skills that perform these functions equally well. If anything, you could say a hammer warrior makes a better "chaser".

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathWise

their unique ability to perform a wide variety over TP's.

You must have got Chapter 3 early. Teleport skills are extremely limited. There is only one you can use to good effect and the variety leaves a lot to be desired.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathWise

Really, just shut it. I'm getting fed up with people constantly claiming Assassins don't bring anything to the table. Why did you think Arena Net created the character, for no reason whatsoever? Think again.

They do bring something to the table (which I have mentioned). However, what they bring is neither wanted nor needed in PvE (higher end PvE, you could do all of the missions with 7 henches easily, no one refutes that).

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathWise

But this absolutely does not make it impossible

You've pinpointed the problem yourself. Yes, it is not impossible. However, it requires more effort and maintainence than any other profession. This leaves no good reason for a serious PvE group to take you for anything. How many places have you seen where people have asked for an Assassin in their party ? Their unpopularity in higher end PvE is not because everyone is stupid, its because they just aren't made for that kind of play.

Quote:

Originally Posted by just rude

It's you who are unskilled, period. I don't mean the assasins. I completed the whole game with henchies, when I was on my assassin.

So did I, more power to me. I still agree with the people you made your post against. What would your Assassin contribute to say... an Underworld group ? An SF group ? A group for the elite missions ? Assassins are more of a liability than anything else in these areas. I personally believe this to be a flaw in these locations rather than the Assassin class itself, but I admit that something is wrong.

Francis Demeules · Jun 17, 2006, 10:39 PM // 22:39

This thread is like pure flaming against others for nothing.

gobla · Jun 17, 2006, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathWise

Assassin actually do bring something special to the table. First off, their damage output higher than those of warriors. This is mainly due to the fact that Assassins have to do combo's, which require a certain sequence of attacks which in the end results in a very powerful combo. Why do you think Warriors would have higher damage if they aren't even obligated to execute Attack Skills in some order. Warriors do not need to perform a combo, which obviously makes their damage output a tad bit lower. I have played Assassin vs. Warrior often enough to know that Assassins are superior. (this is different in PvE though, since they serve other purposes) Also, it greatly depends on percentages, namely Critical Hits and Double Attacks. (note to also take a higher attack speed into consideration) Thus damage output is higher to that of a Warrior when correctly used.

*cough* knockdown + crushing blow combo *cough*

ow sorry, i seem to be having a bit of a cold... ow dang! another one coming up!

*cough* sever artery + gash *cough*

ai! it's quite bad! ow dear! another one!

*cough* dismember + axe twist *cough*

ow my! im sneezing quite a bit today!

*cough* shove + lacerating chop *cough*

hey! just look at that! i accidentally sneezed out a whole bunch of skill combo's that warriors have!

oh oh! i feel another bunch o sneezes coming up!

*cough* enervating charge + stoning *cough*
*cough* phantom pain + shatter delusions *cough*
*cough* animate bone fiend + blood of the master *cough*
*cough* spike trap + hunter's shot *cough*
*cough* signet of judgement + holy strike *cough*
*cough* boon of creation + pain *cough*

WOW! i just sneezed out another bunch of skill combo's for wich the second requires a skill like the first to be cast! that's just like dual attacks that have to be followed by off-hand attacks! But instead of a cross in the opponents HP bar you now need a condition, enchantment or knockdown! Man! just look at that! And i was thinking the assasin combo attacks were special, just like warriors having adrenaline! but it shows that they are only as special as warriors using axe skills.

Ilya Khan · Jun 18, 2006, 12:30 AM // 00:30

Assasins do bring something special and unique to the table. They can shadowstep to get up close to the monk and then perform a combo quick enough to knock another opponent out of the game. Also, thanks to shadowstepping, an assasin can escape death better than any other class. As for damage output and skills, the assasin is greater than most classes. Gobla - I am afraid you are an idiot. Offhand attacks precede dual attacks. If you want a better image of an assasin, think of a warrior with less armor and higher damage output+energy. Now throw in the ability to teleport instantly to one's enemy. Ok, you're almost there. Now cross this new warrior class with a caster class and you have an assasin. The assasin has 2x the energy regen of a warrior and more damage output. If you want to think of it in different terms, that's fine. Ok, if the warrior is a tank, think of the assasin as a stealth fighter. You get in, perform your task, and get out. Granted, the tank can take more hits than you can, but you can do more damage more quickly and still be able to get out unscathed.
And to insult those who play assasins is just retarded. I have an assasin because I beat the game on every other type of character and the game got boring so I decided to try this new class which nobody seems to like and, like you, I found playing as an assasin easier than playing as any other class because the damage output and healing capabilities are far greater than a warrior (don't get me started on this).
Oh, and to the OP - go RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO yourself

Maria The Princess · Jun 18, 2006, 05:46 AM // 05:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildmouseX

ummmm yes it is... the tanks job is to stand toe to toe with their tanks and just sit there swinging his weapon forever. the assassins job is to run around in the back lines and take out casters, or the wars that rush your casters.

without an assassin, the tank has to break his agro and drag more foes into his caster lines to save them from being killed by the guy he let run by. furthermore, he has to stand there pounding on war's while getting smacked around by the other sides casters, if he runs at their casters he opens his casters up to allthe guys he should be fighting.

they play 2 compleately different roles, a tank can't fill an assassins position anymore then the assassin can tank. knowing the difference between the two is how you put together an effective group.

ya ok

now, tank is tanking, and the casters, are they there to wach? no they deal damage. so no need for assassin waistin monks ebnergy, when you could have a ranger/ele/necro doin the job from a range

proffbeer · Jun 18, 2006, 06:12 AM // 06:12

wow, this post is silly. very silly. lots and lots of silly people here.

Ok lets see here, the people that apprently haven't played a sin yet, think they suck. monks think they suck becaue they have to heal them. hhhhmmm, well thats just kinda silly. let me let yall in on a little secret. A sin can out damage a war short and simple. If they couldn't, i wouldn't stand toe to toe with em in pvp.

Monks, well, im sorry to say in all the time iv'e played ive come to the conclusion that 50% of ya shouldn't play one at all, just a waste of time, 25% of ya are barely worth the slot you take up, 15% of ya are getting there, just need to work at it a little more, and 10% of ya are excelant at what you do. FYI though, if im on my game, i need a heal about every 5mins, few wars can say that.

What ive read here though, well, im sorry to say most of those people that think a sin sucks, just dont understand what it is we do. We take out single targets in a matter of seconds. I think the best example of what it is a assassin is cabale of is the opening scene of the proffesional, (leon for those of you outside the usa) take a good look at that and then you have a good idea of what it is we do. Course a majority of yall just play pve, so unlees yer seeing whole mobs of enemies gong down, you think something is wrong. Thats ok, just stay out of pvp, cause you won't like the shock of having a sin popping up beside you and then seeing yerself laying face down in the dirt.

Silent Elvin Ranger · Jun 18, 2006, 04:47 PM // 16:47

So all of u are just comparing a warrior vs and assassin in both PvE and PvP.
Ok, now PvP has been explained. U go in quickly, u attack/kill the week but important components of their team, then get out even quicker. But in PvP u say dont even waste a slot on an assassin. Instead of choosing a side of either warriors or assassin for this comparison for PvE, why not put them together. We take the massive armor and "tanking" abilities of a tank and the high damage output of an assassin and there u got a team! U send in the tank to take all the hits first. The monk focusses on healing the tank. Then u send in assassin to finish off the group. In PvE the AI will most likely start beating on the closest thing that is attacking them. Then send in the real damage dealer (if done right they wont attack the assassin for a while). If the assassin starts getting attacked, they run like hell so the group attacks the war again. Then the assassin comes back.

Assassins aren't better nor worse than any proffession. They actually do add sumthing to the group. Comparing Assassins to Warriors is pointless. The only thing they have in common is the melee factor.
O yeah. BTW. Mod there is sum bad news...UR A DUMBASS!

My Final Heaven Vll · Jun 19, 2006, 02:45 AM // 02:45

sadly its very true assassin hate is a true reality in guild wars. even though an assassin can out damage a warrior they are still a class that needs to be frontline and fact is they dont carry superior absorb.i dont hate on assassins, i have one myself whos completed the game and done AB/FF runs to get 15k armor. however i do feel bad for the assassins who made the mistake of not making them earlier, because no doubt they do have a hard time getting into parties. which is frustrating because right now im trying to get assassin fissure of woe armor and i cant even get into a group when we have favor. its discouraging that i spent so much time in elite missions and KC d1 only to be shutdown in the party grouping that is 1 BIP 1 ss 1 tank 2 eles 2 heal 1 bond for fissure of woe.

maybe one day people will be able to realize intelligent assassins can use flashing blades and pick soft targets. and maybe one day people will realize that if a monk seeds the assassin we wont die as fast.

WildmouseX · Jun 19, 2006, 03:52 AM // 03:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria The Princess

ya ok

now, tank is tanking, and the casters, are they there to wach? no they deal damage. so no need for assassin waistin monks ebnergy, when you could have a ranger/ele/necro doin the job from a range

if the casters get rushed, then their not dealing dmg to the other side, their trying to save their butts.. the assassins job #1 is to take out the rushers so the casters can press the attack unimpaired... the assassin job #2 is to run in and spike enemy casters, then run away so the rest of the team can finish it off quicker.

the assassin not only defends his casters, but he helps them move through the enemies faster. and any good assassin player should never need a heal from the monk, as he avoids being damaged all together by useing hit and run tatics.

ranger/ele/necro don't do as much spike dmg as a sin, thussly takeing longer to drop the enemy monks and casters. an assassin spike, followed up by his casters spells make very quick work of any enemy. just because your too prejudice to understand the role he plays, doesn't change the fact that properly played assassins benifit the whole group, in all the ways they were hurting for b4 the expansion.

S H I N O B I · Jun 19, 2006, 04:34 AM // 04:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildmouseX

just because your too prejudice to understand the role he plays, doesn't change the fact that properly played assassins benifit the whole group, in all the ways they were hurting for b4 the expansion.

QFT

Doomlord_Slayermann · Jun 19, 2006, 04:58 AM // 04:58

Good grief this thread is flame-ridden. Let's get this straight:

Assassins have a higher potential damage output than Warriors, because their attacks are faster and exponentially increase in damage during many combos (Twisting Fangs, for example). HOWEVER (and this is the big problem with Assassins), the initial stages of the combos are weak and any sort of interruption or attack block/miss resets the combo, making the Assassin's damage source a very fragile one.

If you're going to play an Assassin, you need to...

Figure out some way (either by yourself or in your party) how you are going to make sure your attacks are hitting so that you can realize your damage potential. A basic example is the Necromancer spell Rigor Mortis plus plenty of condition and removal for Blind etc.
Have a way to get out of danger when targeted, because Assassin armor is not thick enough for tanking, by a long shot. A good one to carry with you might be Recall, which can be placed on a Monk with Healing Touch or a similar spell to make you easy to keep healthy.

This is for PvE only, by the way. In PvP Assassins are poor right now because it is way to easy to interrupt their combos. Way to easy. In PvE groups, Assassins do mostly what a Warrior would do, just with more speed and potential risk involved. Each class has its advantages and disadvantages, but ultimately they are all pretty much equal. It's not the character you play, but how you play your character.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildmouseX

if the casters get rushed, then their not dealing dmg to the other side, their trying to save their butts.. the assassins job #1 is to take out the rushers so the casters can press the attack unimpaired... the assassin job #2 is to run in and spike enemy casters, then run away so the rest of the team can finish it off quicker.

the assassin not only defends his casters, but he helps them move through the enemies faster. and any good assassin player should never need a heal from the monk, as he avoids being damaged all together by useing hit and run tatics.

ranger/ele/necro don't do as much spike dmg as a sin, thussly takeing longer to drop the enemy monks and casters. an assassin spike, followed up by his casters spells make very quick work of any enemy. just because your too prejudice to understand the role he plays, doesn't change the fact that properly played assassins benifit the whole group, in all the ways they were hurting for b4 the expansion.

And to the fanatical ninja junkies out there, please take note that the Assassin is not the panacea of group problems. Assassins are very offensive. However, if you want to spike, you can feel free to discover that (1) there are much better spike builds than the "Assassin spike" and (2) that no respectable GvG guild will play a pure spike often because of its inflexibility. Also, there is no substitute for a Tactics-based Warrior in PvE if you want to run interference for the casters. Leave Assassins on the primary target where they belong.

Maria The Princess · Jun 19, 2006, 07:31 AM // 07:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildmouseX

if the casters get rushed, then their not dealing dmg to the other side, their trying to save their butts.. the assassins job #1 is to take out the rushers so the casters can press the attack unimpaired... the assassin job #2 is to run in and spike enemy casters, then run away so the rest of the team can finish it off quicker.

the assassin not only defends his casters, but he helps them move through the enemies faster. and any good assassin player should never need a heal from the monk, as he avoids being damaged all together by useing hit and run tatics.

ranger/ele/necro don't do as much spike dmg as a sin, thussly takeing longer to drop the enemy monks and casters. an assassin spike, followed up by his casters spells make very quick work of any enemy. just because your too prejudice to understand the role he plays, doesn't change the fact that properly played assassins benifit the whole group, in all the ways they were hurting for b4 the expansion.

im not prejudice, im just realistic. i had a sin, i got an idea of how it rolls from his own side and from party's side.

now in a balanced team, it is the rangers job to protect the "backlines". a ranger will never outdamage a nuker, but the reason why its there, is to "controll" the territory around with stuff like traps, spirits etc, be ready to interrupt whatever needs to, and maby drop a few conditions here and there to ressure. all a ranger needs to drop a monk is broadhead arrow with apply poison + some mesmer hex. drop a frozen soil and no more monkey. and what use is from a melee rusher while he is blind, crippled(hehe no more rush) hexed, and interrupted when trying to self heal? and im am not talking about "aggressive" rangers such as spikers, touchers, etc, cuz that kind of a party build will never let an assassin in anywas.

enouth about rangers, how about eles and mesmers? most of them carry some form of self defence, if not, its probably nukers, which should always be very careful anyways. by the time an assassin comes to rescue of a nuker its most of time too late anyways, cuz nuker is interrupted and becomes almost useless. other eles are better set of self defence and whie the rusher is interruted/blinded/crippled, nuker/ele/necro will calmly spike the hell out if it or just kite. so realy, the purpuse left for assassin is to take down "enemy" monk and eles. all we need to take down an assassin is to hit the space barr

and here we go, should i repeat what i said or is it clear what hapens to the assasin?