Curse

Nightwish · Jun 22, 2006, 12:58 PM // 12:58

Being an assassin, the two most important aspects that need to be met are mobility and quick damage.

I am not dissing other elites but in order to maximize an assassin's mobility and surprise ambush, I cannot see anyway other than the elite AoD. The other shadow steps are either random or long recharge or too conditional.

Unless you using AoD, it means most of the time your sin will do the normal walking/running, which hampers the class's ambush/escape capacity, especially in gvg (80-90% of the assassins in top guilds seem to be still using AoD, which is the best mobility skill for them in solo duties)

Anyone here use any other elites to good effect in gvg?

P.S. Imo, the nerf to AoD is more of because its just too useful rather than overpowered.

misled · Jun 22, 2006, 01:55 PM // 13:55

Personally, I'm using Temple Strike as my elite, works against both casters and melee characters alike. As my mobility skills I'm using Death's Charge and Dark Escape or Dash. Seems to be working out pretty well for me so far.

Isileth · Jun 22, 2006, 08:02 PM // 20:02

AoD is by no means needed. The fact is if you run towards someone they will either kite or throw up enchants before you get to them. AoD gives you the element of suprise allowing you to get off a full combo before they can react!
There are some other very nice elites that can replace them, Temple Strike is one of the more popular ones as not only is it versatile but it also puts some of the more powerful conditions on people!

twicky_kid · Jun 22, 2006, 08:12 PM // 20:12

If you do not use AoD you will need a shadow step to the target skill and a shadow step to ally skill.

Recall to get out of the flay and death's charge/running skill to get in. AoD can do this with 1 skill slot instead of 2. Since its a no attribute line skill it can be fit onto any Assassin build. This also gives you more freedom to work with your attribute points.

No other Assassin skill allows you shadow step IN and OUT with 0 points into that attribute line.

Temple strike was dead for me when they added a 25 recharge. It was ok at 15 because the energy cost was so high for a short term affect. Rangers can inflict dazed better than a sin can.

Sarevok Thordin · Jun 22, 2006, 08:19 PM // 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

If you do not use AoD you will need a shadow step to the target skill and a shadow step to ally skill.

Recall to get out of the flay and death's charge/running skill to get in. AoD can do this with 1 skill slot instead of 2. Since its a no attribute line skill it can be fit onto any Assassin build. This also gives you more freedom to work with your attribute points.

No other Assassin skill allows you shadow step IN and OUT with 0 points into that attribute line.

Temple strike was dead for me when they added a 25 recharge. It was ok at 15 because the energy cost was so high for a short term affect. Rangers can inflict dazed better than a sin can.

AoD if shattered sends you right back where you were, your attack was just gooned.

Recall isn't vulnerable to this. Also, if your recall buddy is getting hammered (usually a monk, who really cannot be distracted), you can recall to him and lay into his attack quickly and with the element of suprise. This is AMAZINGLY effective and your monk's antagoniser will be at a loss for what do to.

Also, Death's Charge provides a sorta heal so you aren't waiting for your HP to Regen if you are ever in that situation.

The attacking elites of a sin are GREATLY underestimated (Mobeius Strike.....) and should get some more love.

TheOneMephisto · Jun 22, 2006, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Unfortunately, the attacking elites basically make you need to run or use shadow steps that aren't optimal (45 sec recharge anyone?). Recall can be good but you still telegraph your attack when you run up.

AoD is a great skill. Even if they do shatter/drain it, they only took down one chain, you can do another one once it recharges. Also, most people don't have fast enough reflexes to get off a drain/shatter when you suddenly pop up beside them, and also they are usually busy with the rest of your team.

Also, AoD can be put to great use for harassing the enemy base. I was watching WM the other day, and their A/Ws are amazing at just spending the entire game tying up resources and harassing NPCs. Not many other skills can do that.

Sarevok Thordin · Jun 22, 2006, 09:19 PM // 21:19

When you aren't shadow stepping offensively, play defensively.

Stay at a distance with recall on a teammate, when you get those silly bunnythumpers trying their luck with your monk, shadowstep in and let rip. Their non-war armor will cause them to get torn to pieces if you are fast enough.

A thought just occured to me, using Mirror Stance on them for extra fun..

Lord Oranos · Jun 22, 2006, 11:57 PM // 23:57

To be honest, the reason I use AoD at the moment is for the pure element of surprise, it works amazing when used correctly, and the other reason is I have not gone far enough in the pve game to unlock Mobeus Strike.

twicky_kid · Jun 23, 2006, 02:28 AM // 02:28

Mobius strike is an ok skill. Fact is there are non-elite dual attacks that are BETTER than the attack elites. Horns of the Ox and Twisted fangs are both worthy of being elite. During the beta they were heavily discussed as being changed to elite. Horns of the Ox got overlooked. While twisted fangs cost was increased, dmg decreased, and longer recharge.

As for AoD there is nothing that can shadow step IN and OUT while using 0 attribute points. Removing AoD might be able to stop a spike on you if you are fast enough but that doesn't stop the Sin from changing to a closer target and unloading while the AoD is recharging.

There is very little you can do about AoD. The 2nd strike is going to knock you down. By the time you get up you are usually too low in health to stick around. If you do stick around the Sin will remove AoD and he's gone.

AoD is what makes the Sin possible in every aspect. The real question is. If the a Sin did not have AoD is it worth running over a thumper/war?

Legendary Battousai · Jun 23, 2006, 05:38 AM // 05:38

Shadow Shroud and just bring Death Charge, the answer to 90% of the questions asked in this thread.

misled · Jun 23, 2006, 02:19 PM // 14:19

AoD is a good skill imo, for the fact that you can Shadow Step in and out of combat. Though i opt out for a more useful elite upclose, just for the fact that the shadow step range is only your aggro circle, i can easily just dash in after my oponent if i don't bring a shadow step skill. I haven't had any difficulties getting in after the monks or casters with out AoD.

Saider maul · Jun 23, 2006, 04:25 PM // 16:25

the assassin is a broken and thus neglected class by the community in PvE.

being a Melee in casters clothing without the standard 75% evade that every other class with evade/block has.

The only consolation are some like you said random/conditional shadowsteps with extremely unexceptable recharges.

The assassins skill reductuon and 25% less evade and or evade being removed from many skills is a typical situation of bait and switch.

This gave us a taste of the alternative melee class with awsome play ability so those favoring the melee class would buy the game, only to redesign the classes skills to a point it is a totally different character.

Bait and switch is illegal in any country.

But this is the internet and ncsoft has our money.
If they cared what we had to say especially on such a broken/stereotyped class,.. mini pets and celebration events would NOT be the topic of almost all "gaile" has to talk about.

AOD or not its still a broken class.

ubermancer · Jun 23, 2006, 05:09 PM // 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

Mobius strike is an ok skill. Fact is there are non-elite dual attacks that are BETTER than the attack elites. Horns of the Ox and Twisted fangs are both worthy of being elite. During the beta they were heavily discussed as being changed to elite. Horns of the Ox got overlooked. While twisted fangs cost was increased, dmg decreased, and longer recharge.

Moebius Strike is an offhand, which follows a dual. Even if you miss the recharge, you can reliably hit two dual attacks in short order. Thats nothing to overlook.

Fu Manchu · Jun 23, 2006, 06:40 PM // 18:40

My issue with shadow stepping 'to' a target is that the distance is very short.. bubble radius which means when you step out you are in ranger distance and still in caster distance and the aggro from spells follow you..

As I have suggested before Longbow range would be Ideal as a step to target range, then you really can suprise a target and cause problems.

Nightwish · Jun 23, 2006, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Good feedback so far

For me, AoD is the bread and butter of an assasin, pretty much like divineboon on prot monks/IAS,speed stance on warriors/ether feast on mesmers. Not exactly the most/best comparisons, but its enough to signify the influence of AoD in assassin roles, for me..The difference is that AoD is an elite, and a nerfed one at that.

I'm not going to deny that I did use other elites in RA/TA but in bigger battles with larger maps and more players/npcs, AoD is my top choice of an elite. You see a half dead enemy down the bridge? No problem, just AoD yourself to him. Death charge works, but at more than double recharge and an additional return skill.

p.s. If I am only allowed 1 elite on my assassin, AoD will be my pick 100% because of the flexibility+mobility this skill gives. However, in smaller battles, where mesmers can camp on your assassin for enchant removal, AoD is indeed abit weak.

WildmouseX · Jun 23, 2006, 09:32 PM // 21:32

recall can be substituted for AoD to an extent... leave one on your monk, and another on your war, then watch your war rush in, and when he gets to where you want to be drop it, fight, then drop back to your monk. - not as effective as AoD, but it achives close to the same effect with only 1 skill, and free's up your elite slot.

personaly, i've become a fan of Shadow of Haste, for when i run my sin build on my E/A, without haveing to worry about droping an enchant, or picking an ally to target in combat, i can focus more on my combo - since repeating strike leads back into it's self i can throw as many as it take to get them down to a point where death blosoom will finish them off. - and if i can't deal enough b4 the haste ends, then i've definetly done enough to finish them off with a fireball.

of course that's playing her PvE, i'm sure the element of suprise is more advantagious in PvP. - but again that suprise is easily achived just by an el running up and sticking a dagger in your gut.

twicky_kid · Jun 23, 2006, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubermancer

Moebius Strike is an offhand, which follows a dual. Even if you miss the recharge, you can reliably hit two dual attacks in short order. Thats nothing to overlook.

Take the Golden combo right now

Golden Phoenix strike>horns of the ox>fallen spider>twisted fangs.

Add Mobius strike to that to recharge them all. You land all 4 hits and use mobius. Now you have no energy with all your skills recharged.

Mobius is a double edged blade. It does not allow you spam attack skills like you may think. If you are able to land the combo, even phoenix + Dual attack, you won't have enough energy to repeat it again immediatly. That's why it an ok elite. Its not too bad but not impressive at all.

There is a combo right now to maintain Shadow Shroud 100% of the time but that hasn't been abused yet. Since it requires the use of QZ I dought it will ever be abused.

AoD is arrgo range to shadow step IN but the step OUT is unlimited. In RA/TA its not needed because the maps are very small. You can even live in HA without it. In GvG there is simply no other choice. Even after the nerf it didn't make a difference.

In GvG you will use up 2 skill slots to get in and out (bad idea). You will most likely be crippled or slow hexed when you get in close. You must have a way to shadow step out to survive.

This 1 skill does the job of 2 with no attribute points needed. That is why its golden. That's not going to change until the make the recharge around 40 seconds or energy cost to 15.

Ashur4421 · Jun 24, 2006, 02:27 AM // 02:27

Just in case you weren't aware the "old" combo still works quite well.

("old combo" being AoD, GPS, Horns, Falling, Twisting)

Basically just switch around your attributes a little and you're there. I've found that this combo is deadly and I don't think I'd ever use something else. My guild uses a 2 sin gank method (nothing new), but we can kill 4-5 archers and a bodyguard before someone comes back to scare us off (depending on the reaction time of the other guild). I can easily kill enemy monks with this simply because of AoD and Horns of the Ox. All in all I think that AoD is a must have for all assassins.

PS AoD is probably my favorite skill.

Saider maul · Jun 24, 2006, 08:00 AM // 08:00

Can i get a petition for modifing the the assassins evades and and some shadow arts skill recharges/durations reduced/extended?

75% evade on all current evade skills.

50% evade added to shadow refuge.

shadow step range to long bow range.

Can i get a.../signed

Does-it-Matter · Jun 24, 2006, 08:35 PM // 20:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saider maul

being a Melee in casters clothing without the standard 75% evade that every other class with evade/block has.

So don't think of it as a tank. To me, a 75% evade/block would be wasted on most of the builds I see because you're in an out in less than 7 seconds. Raising the evade percentage would only encourage the tank-mentality we've tried so hard to get rid of.

Quote:

50% evade added to shadow refuge.

Let's add 50% evade to healing breeze while we're at it. Don't get me wrong, it would be cool, but you would definately make it way over-powered then. As it stands now, Shadow Refuge is enough to recoop all damage I take during my seven second or less attack phase.

Quote:

shadow step range to long bow range.

No real arguement here. I liked having the old ranges of teleporting.

Then again, I use Shadow of Haste. So I don't have these problems.

Pop shadow of haste far enough away so you have your recall point, pick your target and go at it. If they are "casting all the enchantments/kiting" pick a new one. If you get the whole team to burn energy in kiting/enchanting, well, I usually smile at that, it means I just distracted a whole team, and my team mates are usually capitalizing.

Really, I've never had a statistical amount of problems with it at all.