Curse

LordLucifer · Jul 06, 2006, 06:24 PM // 18:24

im with deathknight here, either give them those buffs (making deadly arts actually useful...) or at least give them decent equipmet...
7-17=butter knives ffs
70 armor is NOT a melee armor.... rangers have better armor and they are...rangers! (if your gonna talk abt touch rangers then make assasins drain 75 HP when they attack too...)

wilebill · Jul 06, 2006, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Thou shalt not tank, and with player groups you do not need to tank.

But solo with henchies, it is sort of hard to avoid staying in combat, call it what you want. I've got, fully leveled up from Tyria, a warrior, a monk, a ranger, and an ele/mo. Fully leveled in factions, a mesmer, and my assassin. Of all these, the assassin with daggers is the most tricky to solo with henchies, at least at the higher levels.

Get the henchies to engage with ctrl-shift spacebar, or initiate combat with a longbow, then switch to daggers, get the healers and the most dangerous of the casters before attacking the warriors breaks down with henchies because they come right after you bringing the enemy melee with them. Random teleport and try to get your hp back to full before entering combat again is all you can do.

Oh, yes, Mobius and Assassin's Promise are lifesavers.

Shendaar · Jul 06, 2006, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by hated

Well you're only supposed to use it when you're attacking, so you teleport in, hit flashing blades, do your spike, and then get out. Problem is new players come to the game and go; OMG HAXX I TANKZ GOOD NOW, wherein lies the problem with sins trying to tank.

Why would I use a stance that last for 21 seconds and can be maintained forever only to get in and out?

hated · Jul 06, 2006, 08:06 PM // 20:06

I was just saying that is the general application to using it. As it has no use if you're not attacking, keeping it maintained forever would be a waste of energy.

tivaan stormbringer · Jul 06, 2006, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Couple other wrongs that need to be righted...........max health on daggers is +30 all other classes can get up to +60 with extra mods on those items like staffs or sword and shield etc...... daggers are extremely light used by a ver y lightly armured fighter swords arent should be much faster

Celab · Jul 06, 2006, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle

agreed. ONE hammer does up to 35 dmg.

and TWO daggers do 17.

you should be able to take TWO eyes out. Dagger base dmg needs to be upped a little bit

You do have a chance to double strike, increased chance with increased dagger master, so if you get it high enough you could do 14 14 with a regular attack, and at 16 mastery, 14 14 often every 1 second, thats ~28dms without any *direct* skills (maybe a enchantment or stance). Much more than a hammer, but you do need to invest heavily on dagger mastery though. (at 16 mastery, you hit every 1 second)

I agree with most of the changes you have suggested.

Also, making AoD available much earlier, would be better. Maybe making a non elite version which is available when you start, to encourage sins to use it, and its idea. Maybe something which is like/replace death charge, but costs 10 energy, same cool down as death charge but it has the effects of AoD + is a enchantment.

Shendaar · Jul 06, 2006, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by hated

I was just saying that is the general application to using it. As it has no use if you're not attacking, keeping it maintained forever would be a waste of energy.

If all you are gonna do is 3-4 combo someone and get out, why waste 10e for 4 seconds of slight protection?

FB defeats the purpose of what people want to make out of the assassin, no matter how hard you try to make sense out of it.

Helll is for Heroes · Jul 06, 2006, 10:05 PM // 22:05

I think your AoD tweak is a tad too much.

You are effectively saying byebye NPCs under 2 ins in GvG.

Lord Deathknight · Jul 06, 2006, 11:01 PM // 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by hated

Throw dirt is listed in the expertise line of rangers making it unuseable for other classes, also it has a recharge time of 45 seconds.

Blinding flash has a cost of 15 energy making it usuable by anyone but casters.

Now both of these abilities only work well with their base professions more or less, any changes would make them overused and overpowered.

Blinding powder at a measly 5 energy and 20 second recharge gives assassins a defensive and offensive (unseen fury) ability that only they can use because of off-hand requirements.

All these skills work very well for the class they belong to, and if done right are very powerful.

Your right, but I was not out to break down every skill down to what aspects the energy cost would be for each tweak, how much it should recharge should be for every skill that was listed.

But (just to narrow down to Blinding Flash skill) out of 7 playable only 3 are not of the casting class, 2 of those could handle the energy cost of casting Blinding Flash with out that much hindrance as they have the ability to compensate for that energy loss, even the later one could cast that spell at 3/4 for his energy reserve assuming that an off-hand was not provided to compensate. But then most playable character classes need maybe two of their primaries disciplines filled with attribute points and then you can throw some in to your secondary attribute,

As an Assassin you may have to throw attributes points in 3 or all 4 primary disciplines as they are devoted to attacks that are there to form a combo, Yes you can form a combo chain from a single discipline but I found that most I have tried for me do not do that much damage to anything that is fair level to the Assassin. To put some into a seconday profession and to make them effective, would mostly but not always weaking your attacks and chances making you more weaker. Most of the secondarys I have seen are non attrubite.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilebill

Seriously, and purely from a PvE perspective out solo with henchies, the assassin is usually very good.

Of course anyone does, after all the henchies all attack the same target as you do, even if you call one target and attack another they will go to the one that you attacking,. Making it very hard to do what a Assassin but making the killing really easy as you have more than one attacking that target. Heck if you stop attacking and have killed the target while in the middle of the fray the some henchies do also, until you call another target or attack one. Its much different with an all human or part human teams.

Sadly this only adds to the illusion that a Assassin can tank

Legendary Battousai · Jul 06, 2006, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pick Me

Lol Legendary.

At first I thought you were serious about your tweaks to the Palading build. That was until I read Sever Artery.

If you are in the slightest serious about your tweaks on skills, then ANet would no doubt put them into effect and say, "all W/Mos automatically cannot attack unless they themselves attack." Thus all the paladin can do is heal or protect and never attack until he/she is the last one standing.

Every skill you mentioned automatically becomes an elite as well. Restore Life will require X amount of energy per allie ressurected. Which could mean that your Paladin could in fact be at a negative energy for minutes.

I'm not sure what you meant for Galrath's Slash; make it like Flesh Golem?

Yes, increase sword damage, but then increase all weapon damage (bows, wands, rods, axes, hammers, etc.)

As for Running, yes, I agree that Spring should give you 200% faster movement, however I also believe that the ritual spirit that hinders movement by 10% or so should not affect Primary Rangers.

Adrenaline should not however, start at full in beginning of matches. I do believe however, there should be a way(s) that warriors can gain adrenaline before a match starts. Sort of like psyching up before a big game.

Im surpised that you didn't figure it out by just reading healing hands...if it took you that long to figure it out, you should talk to someone named Lord Deathknight, I am sure you two will become close friends, or even more than that. And for galrath slash, look at lord's suggestion for death charge.

Lord Deathknight · Jul 07, 2006, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendary Battousai

look at lord's suggestion for death charge.

Well let me explain it to you cause it is apparent you are failing to comprehend what I am portraying.

Now this would be with in the limits of a Assassin/Necro Skill set up

Death charge if you max out your attributes to 16 (that’s is with runes incase you didn't know) Shadow step to target foe. That foe has more health than you, you are healed for 136. This will cost you 5 energy to use, 1/4 time to initiate it and 45 seconds to recharge (that means time before your allowed to use it again.)

Cool huh, I hope you’re still able to follow this....

Good boy

Shadow strike if you max out your attributes to 12 (you cant use necromancer runes cause your an assassin silly) Target foe (that’s the person your attacking) takes 41 shadow damage, if that target foe has more than 50% of their health you steal 41 health his will cost you 10 energy to use, 2 time to initiate it and 8 seconds to recharge

I didn’t make this up, its really in the game but come along now the fun part is coming up

Now this how I would change it

Death charge shadow step to target foe. Target foe takes 30 shadow damage, if that target foe has more than 50% of their health you steal 30 health his will cost you 10 energy to use 1/4 time to initiate it and 30 seconds to recharge
Now wasn't a neat Idea??

Good, now here is your cookie..

Now go play the game as I know your brain is stoked and needs to rest

Bloodied Blade · Jul 07, 2006, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Deathknight

Aura of Displacement: The range needs to be the radius or your radar so that you can teleport to the soft targets, and allowing you to get past the front line. So you can do your job as a assassin

Dark Prison: Need to have duration reduce by half; you could open up a couple of slots on your skill bar with this skill. But with its current duration, I doubt it is used much. Range could use a tweak also.

Mantis Touch: Remove the part where it says "Counts as a off-hand attack"

Scorpion Wire: Increase the Duration of spell or make it 20 seconds like all the other hex's the sin has. Put a 2-5 second pause before you return to your target (it would give time for your combo to recharge).

Blinding Powder: Make it independent, or count as a lead attack

Deaths Charge: Make it more similar to shadow strike the Necro skill

Return: This should be like a panic button, you hit it to get out, it should teleport you to the nearest ally outside of your arggo circle.

Flashing Blades: needs to be increased from 50% to 75%, after all, Rangers, Warriors and Elementals get 75% (Just because it says while attacking don’t make it any better plus its an elite skill) Also I would make it a skill or an enchantment an not a stance.

Crippling Dagger: It should just cripple your target, along with the damage it does.

Shadow Form: The only thing I don’t like about it is the low health at the end of the duration; only because it leaves you to vulnerable at the end and open to an easy kill. With the current skills, it’s more of a suicide attack run. Even if you echo, mirror it. I would have it black out your skills use for a bit or have it like Shadow of Haste, and return you back to the point that you used it. Or both on the latter two, then I would also reduce the duration of its recharge

Two skills that work similar to the two black lotus skills but on conditions not Hexes.

The ability to hit something while you’re blinded with an attack. The Sin is the only one that can’t out of the ones I have tested, test it for your self at the training grounds vs. the Blind Condition Warrior.

(Worth repeating, slightly modified)

Personally I think that all an assassin needs is an inherent evade/block ability that could coincide with the critical strikes.

Have Spells, skills, hexes and attacks that effect that directly target the assassin miss. This would give the assassin a better chance to survive an attack or bypass something that would normally be a defense i.e. throws dirt, blurred vision, blinding flash. The counter would be if the assassin does get hit then it would carry the same effect now, quickly dead. I would have it as a % chance or it would work if it was a hit-miss ratio.

The % chance does not need to be that high as the rangers evade skill either. Like 40% at max with runes (16)

Another thing would be the able to either carry your attack chain to another target or if that target dies have it refresh even it its at an energy loss when it does
Even in most two part attack builds you’re vulnerable as you wait on skill recharge and normal none combo attacks do little damage to most targets.

Of course this defense would not work on things that effect an area even thou it does require a target, i.e. 100 blades, cyclone axe, unholy feast, fire storm, fire ball, Barrage ect. And things that would be cause and effect, i.e. shield bash, holy wraith.

Increase the amount of damage to the daggers, by 2-3 points, if your attacking between skills, your not doing more than 10 points damage if your lucky. This makes you so dependent on your attack skills.

These are my opinions and suggestions, with the hope that someone from Anet will say “hey that’s a neat idea” and use it or add their own tweak to it.

AoD -> Range should be the range of your aggro circle, if rangers can shoot me I should be able to teleport to them.

Dark Prison -> The only problem that I have with it is the recharge time, which in my opinion should be put back at 10 seconds.

Mantis Touch -> Give me a break, you want an instant cripple at range? The skill is fine as it is.

Scorpion Wire -> If there's a pause before you return to the target, then now Falling Spider is useless. The skill is a snare that you use on a runner, you really shouldn't be using it to initiate combat.

Blinding Powder -> ...you want a ranged, 5e, instant blind? It's fine as it is, maybe a recharge reduction is all it needs.

Death's Charge -> ...no. Just no. I would want to reduce recharge by maybe 5-10 seconds at the most.

Return -> What happens if the nearest foe outside your aggro circle is another melee fighter? It's targetted so that you CAN choose to run specifically to the monk if you wish.

Flashing Blades -> Increasing the defense would just mean more people would try to tank with it, thus dying and lowering the mentality people hold towards assassins. Just remove this elite skill all together and replace it with a powerful elite heal or a temporary boost to your daggers that does something like- For 5 seconds your dagger attacks have a 50% chance to blind the target. Just anything but what it is.

Crippling Dagger -> It's fine as it is. Maybe increase the range to your aggro circle at the most.

Shadow Form -> This skill is laughable. Possibly the second worst elite ever (second to Flashing Blades). It's just crap.

Sins can still hit things while blinded, just like anything else can. There is no *attack* skill that cannot *miss*. Everyone can miss through blind, did it just occur to you that they had a skill that wasn't an attack?

With your proposed evasion change to Critical Strikes, Assassins would need to be balanced with lower armor than they already have. Bad idea.

As for Dagger Damage, I thought it sucked...for 2 days. After that I realized that any higher damage would just be unfair to every other class in the game. I can kill almost anything in the game with 1 combo, can you? What if your daggers hit even HARDER?

We're fine, the only thing we really need is maybe a 5-10pt armor boost. I mean, our chest armor already reduces condition duration...many people would KILL for that effect on their armor.

I would enjoy the armor boost though.

hated · Jul 07, 2006, 01:34 AM // 01:34

Whoa whoa easy guys, don't get deathknights thread closed here.

As for the your response to the blind thing deathknight, yah having to put points into other classes is a pain I agree with you. As I've found though classes like the assassin are more like the ranger whereas they are a more self-sufficent class, they don't really need other skills or they can't spare the points for them. So the need to spread out isn't really needed.

Also more and more assassins are finding that the use of a self heal is not needed as the need for enhanced killing is, so points are best spared in more offensive skills. Crazy I know but try it's pretty good.

On the thing about AoD, man that would be so cool to teleport out of nowhere into an enemy, but it'd never happen. It would be widely overused and overpowered and then be nerfed to all hell. Since I know you guys will ask for an example here's a good one:

Assassin targets enemy in the backline well out of sight of the enemy (he's barely on radar). The assassins teamates then target him and cast recall and wait a couple seconds to recharge. Once fully charged the assassin teleports to the targeted enemy, now the teamates cancel out recall and all the sudden you've got a whole team in your backlines...holy..freaking..****.

Now again I really like the idea, but I don't like the idea of losing AoD to another nerf. Hope none of that came off as arrogant or anything, just making a point here.

Kyle · Jul 07, 2006, 01:56 AM // 01:56

The AoD distance can be dealt with. But it is the AoDing out that i feel needs to be fixed.

Example.

At aspenwood on Kurzick side when the luxons break through one of the gates the kurzicks have a ledge that overlooks the area between the outer and inner gates. From there you can AoD to the luxons. Once this happens the gank squad of luxon warrior npcs usually come over to talk to you. Then once they are beating on you you would AoD out because you would soon die. You are aod'd out and back ontop of the ledge. Only to find that all 4 warriors each get roughly 1 more attack on you even though you are no where near them. Which would end in your death or near to it.

That is what i feel needs to be fixed. When i aod out i should be safe unless there is somebody standing there. Not talking about skills such as vamp gaze. Those are just tough luck but warrior attacks deffinatly.

hated · Jul 07, 2006, 02:28 AM // 02:28

Lol I know what you're talking about, but it works both ways. I guess you could try leaving before that huge gank squad ever made it to you, but sometimes you can't.

See the thing is based on guild wars type of pvp an enemies attack hits you unless you do something to say otherwise, be it an evade or block. So even if you leave if he's in the middle of an attack it's going to connect unless you have a skill that says otherwise. Changing this would problably screw assassins and warriors more than anything. Think about it, what would happen if Anet changed the system so that you could only hit something right in front of you?

Well kiting would make it impossible to hit anyone being as how you have to stop and then attack and by the time you do he's already moved from where you were, making every attack miss.

I don't really want to keep disagreeing with everyone here, but I'm just trying to keep everyones feet on the ground.

Lord Deathknight · Jul 07, 2006, 02:59 AM // 02:59

AOD is currently at your arggo circle, and a ranger with a Longbow can shoot farther than that, it is currently the same distance as Shadow form, and many of the time I get ganked by a ranger with one.

On scorpion wire the pause would between the time you get to the 100' mark and the time you would return, the knockdown would still inccure, I had another use for idea on how to use it, and not what been suggested as a way stop someone from running that in turn would could pull you deeper into trouble with a pause.

On Return, could be made to work both ways??

Legendary Battousai · Jul 07, 2006, 08:11 AM // 08:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bloodied Blade

AoD -> Range should be the range of your aggro circle, if rangers can shoot me I should be able to teleport to them.

Dark Prison -> The only problem that I have with it is the recharge time, which in my opinion should be put back at 10 seconds.

Mantis Touch -> Give me a break, you want an instant cripple at range? The skill is fine as it is.

Scorpion Wire -> If there's a pause before you return to the target, then now Falling Spider is useless. The skill is a snare that you use on a runner, you really shouldn't be using it to initiate combat.

Blinding Powder -> ...you want a ranged, 5e, instant blind? It's fine as it is, maybe a recharge reduction is all it needs.

Death's Charge -> ...no. Just no. I would want to reduce recharge by maybe 5-10 seconds at the most.

Return -> What happens if the nearest foe outside your aggro circle is another melee fighter? It's targetted so that you CAN choose to run specifically to the monk if you wish.

Flashing Blades -> Increasing the defense would just mean more people would try to tank with it, thus dying and lowering the mentality people hold towards assassins. Just remove this elite skill all together and replace it with a powerful elite heal or a temporary boost to your daggers that does something like- For 5 seconds your dagger attacks have a 50% chance to blind the target. Just anything but what it is.

Crippling Dagger -> It's fine as it is. Maybe increase the range to your aggro circle at the most.

Shadow Form -> This skill is laughable. Possibly the second worst elite ever (second to Flashing Blades). It's just crap.

Sins can still hit things while blinded, just like anything else can. There is no *attack* skill that cannot *miss*. Everyone can miss through blind, did it just occur to you that they had a skill that wasn't an attack?

With your proposed evasion change to Critical Strikes, Assassins would need to be balanced with lower armor than they already have. Bad idea.

As for Dagger Damage, I thought it sucked...for 2 days. After that I realized that any higher damage would just be unfair to every other class in the game. I can kill almost anything in the game with 1 combo, can you? What if your daggers hit even HARDER?

We're fine, the only thing we really need is maybe a 5-10pt armor boost. I mean, our chest armor already reduces condition duration...many people would KILL for that effect on their armor.

I would enjoy the armor boost though.

I am amazed, this thread became funnier.

His suggestion on mantis touch had nothing to do with the range, but the fact that it counted as an offhand attack.

Why should you be able to teleport to a ranger 200' away? (assuming hes standing on top of a large hill and you are far away and at the bottom). That would make AoD overpowered by far.

You insulted shadow form! how could you! *cries*. I will leave you to believe that it is a horrible skill having no use in this game. Allow me to direct you to observer mode, regional playoffs, war machine game 2. Unfortunately they are no longer displayed... oh well.

If you havent realized by now, our friend lord was trying to use attack skills while blinded meaning that after his lead attack missed, he continued with his combo meaning 100% chance to miss. Basically, he doesn't know what hes talking about, and 1/3 of your post is as bad as his, but at least some of the things you said would be quite nice to see, unlike his.

This forum often speaks of cookies. I invite you to have one.

curtman · Jul 07, 2006, 02:06 PM // 14:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kijik Oni Hanryuu

I think that the dagger damage should either be upped, OR have a faster attack rate than swords, regardless of double strikes, like have the attack rate be .75 while swords is 1.33

agreed. I never really understood how a sword could be faster, because the sword has more mass. Cripple Dagger works well. It is the most useful PVP skill the A has.

Rikimaru · Jul 07, 2006, 03:30 PM // 15:30

I've never gotten any use out of that skill. Every time I tried to use it in PvP the other person would just stop when they saw me casting it, then run again after it hit them.

Lord Deathknight · Jul 07, 2006, 09:29 PM // 21:29

The Student of Blindess is such a formidable foe I had to try to take him out before he could hit me with his longbow attack

Seen that game, gods for about a min, two dead bodies for nearly the rest of the game, pure genious on the build, and they did with zero points in their seconday skills