Curse

pve-er · Aug 24, 2006, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karmaniac

Please don't use movies and such as a basis for an argument. There are movies and then there is GW and they are two separate things altogether. Currently I know exactly where assassin is since shadow stepping doesn't break target.

As was pointed out in some other thread assassins are easily countered. Diversion, shield bash, blind, guardian, distortion, cripple, dolyak and warriors just to name a few.
What I'm aiming at is that assassins don't need a specific counter to shut down they have built-in weakness to most things people will be bringing to pvp anyways whether or not they expected facing assassins there. Moreover when assassin players become more experienced most people already know how to counter assassins.
ATM for example if you're a monk and you see an assassin on the other team you simply go stand next to an ally=one useless assassin. Why? Because the pvp assassins has become something of a stereotype. Why? Because most of assassin weapon skills aren't exactly usable. Summa summarum assassins may be fast killers but they surely aren't reliable killers. And that my friends is what needs looking into.

Indeed Assassin isn't that reliable, that is why we need a buff

Take your example of a monk, Assassin in PvP usually use horn of ox build, it is powerful but with tons of flaw. horn of Ox + falling spider is useless in tight courner or smart dude who know their flaw. due to the lack of variation in combo chain, it is harder to be an effactive Sins. this is why Assassin attack skill need some positive chenge.

there are too many skills out there to shut down or counter Assassin's chain combo as mentioned previously. that is why I suggest Criticle Strike should give Sins target reduction of 3% chance to evade or block attack which Pick Me said will be overpowered. I do not see any overwowered here because this benefit don't increase the rate of attack nor it increase the damage from single hit. many evading or blocking skill has 75% efficiency. reduction of max of 48% won't completely turn off these skills and I doubt people will make Criticle strike to lvl 16 when dagger master or markmenship in case of A/R barrager also need to be at certain ranks to be effactive. it just make some skill less effective against Assissin ONLY. blindness and some hex (eg reckless haste) still works in shut down Assassin. So the 3% bonus isn't that unfair consider most people don't make Criticle strike higher then lvl13.

Guild Wars isn't only about PvP, PvE is parts of game as well. a lot of player enjoy PvE too. Infact most people don't step into the game initially for PvP, most of them start as PvE player. Assassin is still hated in PvE situation except killing Shiro. (I am hunting for Protector Title for my Sin, I am 2 mission toward it). yes there are Asses out there ( I might be one cuz I've died for 1100+ times

just to learn to be a Sin

) but player isn't the only reason that Assassin get hated. the class itself are so "elite" to work on. we need some change either to make Assassin better or easier to use in PvE or make the foe dumber against it

BTW, because so Asses just don't know how they get killed in PvE. Do you think we can write an article about "The Art of Assassination in PvE" just like the "The Art of Tank" ? we should teach the new one to grow up faster. so that the hate against Sin can be less

Lord Nibiru · Aug 24, 2006, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Please,DO that!
Please,i read article about tank,i want article about assassin!
It helped me!

Kwisatz_Haderach · Aug 24, 2006, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by pve-er

there are too many skills out there to shut down or counter Assassin's chain combo as mentioned previously. that is why I suggest Criticle Strike should give Sins target reduction of 3% chance to evade or block attack which Pick Me said will be overpowered. I do not see any overwowered here because this benefit don't increase the rate of attack nor it increase the damage from single hit. many evading or blocking skill has 75% efficiency. reduction of max of 48% won't completely turn off these skills and I doubt people will make Criticle strike to lvl 16 when dagger master or markmenship in case of A/R barrager also need to be at certain ranks to be effactive. it just make some skill less effective against Assissin ONLY. blindness and some hex (eg reckless haste) still works in shut down Assassin. So the 3% bonus isn't that unfair consider most people don't make Criticle strike higher then lvl13.

Lets think about this for a sec if you can jack your evade and blocking up to 48% who would not do that?
Thats 48 % always on you, roughly equivalent to a perpetual guardian. Also this is before you add in any stances or skills so pretty much you could be untouchable if you do this build. I can see it now sin monks just for this special built in feature. Overpowered? you decide.

Also thank you for bringing up that horns of the ox flaw. It needs to stay. Give a sin another(mark of instability) combo knockdown and you will be faced with things getting way out of hand. Monks alone would quit once they saw a sin on the other team just because of how quick and painless you could kill them.

The main problem sins have is they dont think properly through their chains. They only think for damage and because of that we are getting this current string of overpowering, overencumbering combo chains. Try to limit yourself to 3 skills and then max out the damage. You might be surprised what you find. I got a 2 skill solo spike from this thinking.

The sins do have a huge problem in the pve realm, and its not noob sins being wamo wannabees. Its a flaw in their focus which is getting criticals. i have mentioned this before and this is just a reminder. Sins cant do squat damage in pve. None. When you get to the high level areas the armor level gets so ridiculous that theres no way can get criticals which equals no damage and no energy which equals either dead or useless sin. Go back to my first post and see my idea how to fix this.

The problem with buffing the sin is if you dont do it correctly they will have either way to much dps and be able to roll over everything or they will be completly useless. Right now we are on a relitavly balanced leg of buffing except for a few annoying details that just are waiting to be solved, so please keep all further ideas resonable and keep in mind what they might do to the metagame if they are released. Any buff means something has been nerfed

Fargin Scotchsman · Aug 24, 2006, 10:02 PM // 22:02

the whole "get in, get out" thing is a great idea, however, that thing called prot monks seems to come back into my mind. i ask the prot monk to kindly put prot spirit/shielding hands on me, then go WoP+flashing blades, and have little to no prob staying alive. every so often ill swap flashing fo sum other elite, such as promise or palm, but then ill just use crit defense. another good thing (especially with afflicted) is to aggro that ranger, get blinded, then pt the warrior. either way, the trick is not to try and perfect one idea, its to think of others that use the 8 slots in the best possible way. ass is definately the proffesion that req the most thinking, but once you find that build, its great.

as for armor/dag dmg/nrg, i never have a problem with that.
with:
dag mastery- 15
crit strikes- 10
shadow arts- 9
plus dags of enchanting (best thing ever), my WoP lasts 30 some seconds, and flashing blades also lasts 20. anyways, id suggest to ALL ppl to work on different ideas other than in and out. sure its great, but with the few shadow steps skills, they options are limited.

my other problem is that with all the noob ass's out there, they've soiled the rep of all ass's. i mean, i wux in sunjiang a few days ago, and i got picked over a mesmer. nuthing against mesmers, i mean they're great and all, but geez. and when you think about it, if said assassin WAS to get that far, they obviously dont suck. a funny thing that happened during vizhunah (my personal favorite mission), i didnt die at all, whereas the 2 tanks we had each died 3 each, and i tanked more than both of them. o well, ppl's view of the ass has been skewed, and those few decent ppl are suffering immensely. my plea to all those begginners, READ FORUMS AND FIND A BUILD, and also, YOU ARE NOT A TANK, SO DON'T TRY TO BE.

meh, that last statement vastly contradics most of my argument, but thats ok, i found sumthin that works, so im allowed to make myself look like an idiot. HA

edit: i just remembered, does anyone ever use deadly arts? cept maybe for pvp i have never seen anyone use em, lol

Gosu · Aug 24, 2006, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karmaniac

As was pointed out in some other thread assassins are easily countered. Diversion, shield bash, blind, guardian, distortion, cripple, dolyak and warriors just to name a few.
What I'm aiming at is that assassins don't need a specific counter to shut down they have built-in weakness to most things people will be bringing to pvp anyways whether or not they expected facing assassins there. Moreover when assassin players become more experienced most people already know how to counter assassins.
ATM for example if you're a monk and you see an assassin on the other team you simply go stand next to an ally=one useless assassin. Why? Because the pvp assassins has become something of a stereotype. Why? Because most of assassin weapon skills aren't exactly usable. Summa summarum assassins may be fast killers but they surely aren't reliable killers. And that my friends is what needs looking into.

Great post, some great points in there, the only thing i want to draw you up on is that assassin actually have the only stance in the game i think of that can hit through characters block's and evasion techniques regardless of class. That skill is called Unseen Fury, the stance isn't that bad and in an orgainsed team with voice com might actually be quite deadly.

blind is a spell which can easily be spammed by blind bots with simple ease, despite the fact that it can be removed quite quickly it can also be re-applied quite quickly.

I mean come on any one of those skills you mentioned like guardian and distortion as well as blind can counter a warrior for heavens sake.

At this present time i am trying to construct a build which makes use of unseen fury in an organised team, i feel if i can make it successful.

The only problem that Assassins have is as you said in your post that, they only seem to have one main spike, it also seems at this point in time that this spike seems to be the only viable attack chain to take for a sin.

pve-er · Aug 25, 2006, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kwisatz_Haderach

Lets think about this for a sec if you can jack your evade and blocking up to 48% who would not do that?
Thats 48 % always on you, roughly equivalent to a perpetual guardian. Also this is before you add in any stances or skills so pretty much you could be untouchable if you do this build. I can see it now sin monks just for this special built in feature. Overpowered? you decide.

Eitehr you didn't read my word careful enough or my English really sucks. The bonus here is not to increase the ability for Assassin to Evade or Block. read my previous post carefully. it is the REDUCTION of chance for ASSASIN'S TARGET to Evade or Block assassin's attack. Assassin itself has no benefit defensively. but the TARGET's EVASIVE SKILLS get reduction against that Sin's attacks

Kwisatz_Haderach · Aug 25, 2006, 12:19 AM // 00:19

And at that high rate? If you want to avoid blocking or evading grab way of the fox or expose defenses, much easier much simpler than making it a whole extra part of the main attribute line

A better idea might be to make just criticals unblockable and unevadeable

silverwyng · Aug 25, 2006, 12:55 AM // 00:55

an assassin guide for pve is kinda moot. since cantha isn't assassin-friendly and all. but if the more experienced players should want to write one, i can always offer my insights. anything to help the assassin community!

pve-er · Aug 25, 2006, 12:55 AM // 00:55

48% at lvl 16 don't mean everyone will jackup criticle strike to lvl 16. (Unblockable and Unevadable is truely unballance) 3% reduction per rank is ONLY a suggestion.

We can end this arguement here as ANet probably won't even want to add this bonus as it took too much effort to make the change.