Curse

sunsmoon · Aug 22, 2006, 07:48 AM // 07:48

In regards to your questions:

Am I A Good Sin: Probabaly not, based off your post.

Will ANet increase dagger damage?: No. Daggers are faster than swords, and with the proper skills deal more damage than swords. A Realistic example would be kitchen knives vs swords, as you used. Yes, a kitchen knife is as deadly as a sword, but you can swing a knife faster than you can swing a sword. Knives have shorter blades than swords, so the effect of one swing of a blade is less deadly than one of a sword, but because you can swing the knife faster than a sword it, more or less, evens out.

Will ANet increase our armor?: No. The more suriviability and damage built into the class, the less armor it has. Elementalists, for example, have HIGH damage output, and quite a few support skills (see: wards, armor skills), so they get "caster" armor - 60AL. Monks have good damage output and LOTS of support skills (3/4 of their trees are based mostly in support, with one based in damage and support-damage), so they get 60AL. Ritualists are similar to Monks, also. Mesmers and Necromancers have high damage and minimal support skills. Mesmers can shut down a class without dealing damage, warranting their 60AL, and necromancers can control an army/mini-armi, warranting their 60AL (70AL vs all but holy if you have that armor). Rangers deal moderate damage, but are pullers, so they get 70AL, and Warriors are based more in taking hits/tanking, so they get 80 (85 with specific armor). Unless you add more armor to ALL the classes, Sins wont get an armor buff.

Will ANet give us more healing skills?: No. There are only two classes with massive healing skills, and those would be monks and rits. Warriors have IWAY and Heal Sig, Rangers have Troll Unugent and Healing Spring (which, while it can heal the party, is easily interruptable and can be difficult to see), Elementalists have Aura of Restoration, which becomes more effective as they cast skills, and Ether Renewal, Necromancers have wells and Consume Corpse, both of which require a corpse to exploit, and Taste of Death, which requires a minion. They have a few other skills in blood magic, but they aren't very effective for healing (see the vampiric line of skills). Mesmers have Illusion of Weakness which doesn't save them if they're under massive degen, and Ether Feast, which requires the enemy to have at least 3 energy in order to get the full bonus. And that's not even going into what may have been added in factions! (I haven't looked at the new skills for the old classes yet, I've been busy with my rit and sin

)

Amy Awien · Aug 22, 2006, 09:21 AM // 09:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kwisatz_Haderach

Im not calling for a major buff, just something like 1.5% additional chance of a critical strike per lvl in critical strikes(this percent chance unaffected by armor level).

Nothing major?!?

That's an additional 1.5%?? Totalling 2.5% per rank ... x16=40 ... +22 (default), that's almost a 2/3 chance of scoring a critical. 2 in 3 ... 3 energy per crit (4 even with CritEye), 1 strike per second, that's like 2 energy/second or 6 pips. You'd have the equivalent of 10 pips of energy regen.

And you would not call that a major buff?

Something that appears like a small change could have a huge effect.

Conan Soulreaver · Aug 22, 2006, 12:04 PM // 12:04

are you taking drugs? assasins have great energy management. a zealous dagger tang and high crit strikes. use golden lotus(or is it pheonix) strike for energy boost and i never run out of energy. and i can kill casters both pve and pvp in about 5 seconds without a break and recharge to move onto the next ones. played properly and assasins have no problems at all

Karmaniac · Aug 22, 2006, 03:08 PM // 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by lapsus

OK i dont see why ppl are complaining as much as they are. If anyone ive seen post here is even close to the real problem with sins its Kwisatz. There are a ton of defensive and healing stances and skills. The recharge on shadow steps is there to prevent spamming and abuse.
Find weak target/caster-tele in-combo-tele out. The true skill and trick to playing an assassin is in skill balance. Sure you can have that high damaging combo that has 5 skills in it, but you cant have your mobility and healing. You want to be able to spam teleports? Ok, but the 5 tele skills that let you spam it like you want only leave 3 slots for your combo and res. The skills, their recharges, the low armor, the less damaging daggers and the combos all have a purpose. Buffing, improving and otherwise altering them make the Assassin class unbalanced.

Thank you for your insightful if misguided remarks Iapsus.

Why do we complain? Please do read the posts already posted.

Can't bring spike, healing, defense and mobility in the 8-pack? Oh I easily can with warrior and I have space left for siggy too.

Everything with assassins has a purpose? Puh'lease don't try to pass this Lost crap past me without at least the most rudimentary arguments. A quote from one of my all time favourite movies "The Cube" captures quite brilliantly how I currently see assassin profession:

Quote:

There is no conspiracy. Nobody is in charge. It's a headless blunder operating under the illusion of a master plan.

Buffing, improving or any other altering makes assassins overpowered? Nay, such actions if implemented Anet way (ie. drunk or under heavy medication) makes every other profession except assassins overpowered.

Hard? Take a cookie.

Lord Oranos · Aug 22, 2006, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Hmm... only buff I'd want would be to make entangling asp be a touch spell, to make it easier to chain with falling spider.

RemusShepherd · Aug 22, 2006, 04:26 PM // 16:26

I have an idea for how to fix the assassin that takes into account the travesty of having exploding enemies as the main enemy in the assassin's story line.

Change the description for Critical Strikes to, "...and a 1% chance per point of evading area effect spells and critical attacks on them."

That would make assassins only marginally more durable in melee combat, but would give them a nice boost against those freakin' Afflicted and against mages, whom the assassin is supposed to eat alive anyway. And a max of 15% evasion, useable only by primary assassins, isn't going to break anything.

But honestly, I'd be happy with the class if they'd just remove some of the stupid restrictions on the skill use. (This one needs the enemy to be knocked down, this one needs a hex, this one needs to be used only on Thursdays...)

Pick Me · Aug 22, 2006, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by RemusShepherd

I have an idea for how to fix the assassin that takes into account the travesty of having exploding enemies as the main enemy in the assassin's story line.

Change the description for Critical Strikes to, "...and a 1% chance per point of evading area effect spells and critical attacks on them."

That would make assassins only marginally more durable in melee combat, but would give them a nice boost against those freakin' Afflicted and against mages, whom the assassin is supposed to eat alive anyway. And a max of 15% evasion, useable only by primary assassins, isn't going to break anything.

But honestly, I'd be happy with the class if they'd just remove some of the stupid restrictions on the skill use. (This one needs the enemy to be knocked down, this one needs a hex, this one needs to be used only on Thursdays...)

Okay, gaining energy is better than a chance to avoid spells on critical hits. That is because it becomes more conditional.

Secondly, since Death Nova is not a target spell, but an enchantment (afflicted I'm guessing have a permanent skill that looks like Death Nova - thus not a spell), it cannot be evaded or blocked (but you can move a way from it). My defense is teleporting away. Do your combo (stop before Twisted Fangs), attack until the monster is about 25% max health. Hit Twisted Fangs and teleport out. Deep wounds will reduce it to 5% max health, and bleeding will slowly kill it. This will give you time to flee. Afflicted will chase you for a bit and then leave you alone, then explode. You are safe.

The restrictions (like you must be enchanted) serve to give you benefits outside of a normal attack (like gain energy). If you also have a weapon that says +% vs hexed foe or +% while enchanted, then you have extra incentive to make sure those conditions are met.

RemusShepherd · Aug 22, 2006, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pick Me

Okay, gaining energy is better than a chance to avoid spells on critical hits. That is because it becomes more conditional.

I was proposing adding the above to what Critical Strikes has now.

Quote:

Secondly, since Death Nova is not a target spell, but an enchantment (afflicted I'm guessing have a permanent skill that looks like Death Nova - thus not a spell), it cannot be evaded or blocked (but you can move a way from it). My defense is teleporting away. Do your combo (stop before Twisted Fangs), attack until the monster is about 25% max health. Hit Twisted Fangs and teleport out. Deep wounds will reduce it to 5% max health, and bleeding will slowly kill it. This will give you time to flee. Afflicted will chase you for a bit and then leave you alone, then explode. You are safe.

I do that. It's not enough. It limits you to one kill per recharge of your teleport skill (15 seconds for Return, 20 secs for AoD) which isn't a fast enough kill rate. And it does nothing to aid you in a mass combat, where your melee allies are exploding the foes all around you.

My Assassin can handle just about anything one-on-one. Mass combat is what turns Assassins into hamburger and gives the class a bad name. Some protection from AOE attacks, keyed to an Assassin-only attribute, would go a long way to making the class attractive to play.

Pick Me · Aug 22, 2006, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by RemusShepherd

I was proposing adding the above to what Critical Strikes has now.

I do that. It's not enough. It limits you to one kill per recharge of your teleport skill (15 seconds for Return, 20 secs for AoD) which isn't a fast enough kill rate. And it does nothing to aid you in a mass combat, where your melee allies are exploding the foes all around you.

My Assassin can handle just about anything one-on-one. Mass combat is what turns Assassins into hamburger and gives the class a bad name. Some protection from AOE attacks, keyed to an Assassin-only attribute, would go a long way to making the class attractive to play.

There is always Recall, Heart of Shadows, and I want to say Shadow Form, but I don't think that will work.

If I'm being sandwiched by monsters (afflicted or not), I don't want to be there. I teleport out. Assassins are to pick off individuals, not go head in to a mob. If you want to play an Assassin only, then may I suggest you change your play style to suite the profession.

RemusShepherd · Aug 22, 2006, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pick Me

If I'm being sandwiched by monsters (afflicted or not), I don't want to be there. I teleport out. Assassins are to pick off individuals, not go head in to a mob. If you want to play an Assassin only, then may I suggest you change your play style to suite the profession.

And what I'm saying is that the style of play that suits the Assassin is ineffective, especially in the Factions campaign, and especially considering that W/As can do it better.

I'm not saying the class is unusable. I'm saying the class is inferior, and could use a rebalancing.

Kwisatz_Haderach · Aug 22, 2006, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

That's an additional 1.5%?? Totalling 2.5% per rank ... x16=40 ... +22 (default), that's almost a 2/3 chance of scoring a critical. 2 in 3 ... 3 energy per crit (4 even with CritEye), 1 strike per second, that's like 2 energy/second or 6 pips. You'd have the equivalent of 10 pips of energy regen.

Im sorry for the confusion this propably did cause what i meant is the skill description should read "an additional 1.5% chance of a critical strike per level of attribute (this percent chance is unaffected by armor level)"

once again I am sorry for any confusion

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

And you would not call that a major buff?

Something that appears like a small change could have a huge effect.

YES that is exactly what I am aiming for, but i am trying to keep the major part of the buff restricted to the pve arena because as i have experienced and i bet most sins have aside from twisting fangs we cant do any damage, so we need something to make us productive and actually needed on a team or at least called on and not shunned like we currently are.

Horseman Of War · Aug 22, 2006, 09:31 PM // 21:31

yeah, im another person here with zealous (ungues of the oni actually)

energy management is not the issue with assassins. i swear, they have the best energy management in the game practically.

Max Xavier · Aug 22, 2006, 11:13 PM // 23:13

I have recently created an Assassin/Warrior PvE i started at PvP against ym guildies just scrimmaging just for practive and learning and came up with a build that can take any stance warrior down rather quickly. So i put it into PvE and had to swap a few things up but came up with a build that allows me to hang just as a warrior would low damage yes i dont do much but i get the job done and have not been kicked from groups or yelled at and called a noob or anything like that. I have a well balanced Assassin with enough healing and defenses to let me survive even the toughest battles. So yeah it is a combo of skills that make the Sin bad try using 2ndary skills as well might find something that works like i did. I have not had energy problems either with a max energy of 33 due to the Daggers +5 energy mod i use but i have yet to have an run out of energy problem with the build i use..

Kwisatz_Haderach · Aug 23, 2006, 12:34 AM // 00:34

on the energy management issue there is none.

With a base regen of 4 pips (1 2/3 energy per sec) and a chance at getting 2-4 energy back on a critical strike, and then the fact that their main attribute line boosts critical strikes, if your having energy problems you may want to rethink your builds..... cough shock sins cough......

Also i saw someone above post that a 15% evade bonus should be added to sins critical strikes, and while i have been leaning towards something like this for some time the fact remains that either its so small its inconquestial or its would be to large and overpowered. (dont believe me test it out in the isles)

If your interested in evading attacks just grab critical defenses.

pve-er · Aug 23, 2006, 02:22 AM // 02:22

do you think this is a good buff for Assassin?

1. smarter random teleportation with shorter recharge time. the current random teleportation sucks on where it teleport the user. a lot of time it move me to a worse place in the combat (maybe I am just unlucky)

2. give Critical Strike Attribute a boost by having this "for each rank of Critical Strike, your target have x% less chance to block or evade your attack" x I prefer 3%

what do people think ?

Pick Me · Aug 23, 2006, 12:53 PM // 12:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by pve-er

do you think this is a good buff for Assassin?

1. smarter random teleportation with shorter recharge time. the current random teleportation sucks on where it teleport the user. a lot of time it move me to a worse place in the combat (maybe I am just unlucky)

2. give Critical Strike Attribute a boost by having this "for each rank of Critical Strike, your target have x% less chance to block or evade your attack" x I prefer 3%

what do people think ?

Actually, I think it should act like a combination of AoD and that teleport skill that teleports you and heals you when you get hit. So, no randomness, you get hit, you teleport back to where you activated it (like AoD) and you get healed.

As for your Critical Strike Attribute, I think it goes against the balance of the game. 3%x16 = 48% reduced chance to evade or block Assassin attacks.

Buhathros · Aug 23, 2006, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Assassin is very good char ....with nice combo strikes and high evation skills
*** just must know how to play assassian and what is assassin job in this game....you need only 20 energy for 5 hit combo...assassin is dmg dealer char and his make some area splash dmg to all enemys just go in back line and kill nukkers or healers....<<Assassin is not Tank so you dont go first in battle>> A/mo is the best type i belive....because the Ass. problem is low energy allways use Dagger with energy on hit +1 and high Critical mastery....if you have energy allways you are imbalanced

llsektorll · Aug 23, 2006, 08:49 PM // 20:49

im gona say it plain and simple for noobs...

assassins: Good on 1v1 in PvP.... crap in PvE.

if you dont understand here it is again.

Assassins they are what their name intends THEY KILL FAST... 1 mistake and they get owned instead. They are not warriors they can't tank they are not warrior replacements they are just fast killers of 1 target.

Lord Nibiru · Aug 23, 2006, 11:48 PM // 23:48

Yeah,very true....they are the best 1 vs 1 professions,assassin job is kill 1 target,and kill it fast.....sometimes when i do my combo on "My" target,i think that it really hurt and i want know what pure eles now feels when there are assassins ready to shadow step and try their combo on them....

Yeah,assassins job is kill 1 target,you know their job,you read it in books,saw in films.....fast and silent,after they done their jobe,you dont know where they are

That is all point in shadow step and running.....and i must say: Anet,this was your best hit in the game!!

ps.sorry for my mistakes,my sentences can be better said,but I think you know what i thought......i learn english about 1 year so far

Karmaniac · Aug 24, 2006, 07:47 AM // 07:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Nibiru

Yeah,assassins job is kill 1 target,you know their job,you read it in books,saw in films.....fast and silent,after they done their jobe,you dont know where they are

Please don't use movies and such as a basis for an argument. There are movies and then there is GW and they are two separate things altogether. Currently I know exactly where assassin is since shadow stepping doesn't break target.

Quote:

Originally Posted by llsektorll

im gona say it plain and simple for noobs...

assassins: Good on 1v1 in PvP.... crap in PvE.

if you dont understand here it is again.

Assassins they are what their name intends THEY KILL FAST... 1 mistake and they get owned instead. They are not warriors they can't tank they are not warrior replacements they are just fast killers of 1 target.

As was pointed out in some other thread assassins are easily countered. Diversion, shield bash, blind, guardian, distortion, cripple, dolyak and warriors just to name a few.
What I'm aiming at is that assassins don't need a specific counter to shut down they have built-in weakness to most things people will be bringing to pvp anyways whether or not they expected facing assassins there. Moreover when assassin players become more experienced most people already know how to counter assassins.
ATM for example if you're a monk and you see an assassin on the other team you simply go stand next to an ally=one useless assassin. Why? Because the pvp assassins has become something of a stereotype. Why? Because most of assassin weapon skills aren't exactly usable. Summa summarum assassins may be fast killers but they surely aren't reliable killers. And that my friends is what needs looking into.