Curse

Morgarath · Sep 22, 2006, 03:39 PM // 15:39

guys assassins are made to do a lot of damamge but everyone who plays an assassin is bound to die a lot its just part of playing one

SAPhoenix · Sep 22, 2006, 06:11 PM // 18:11

A well played sin rarely dies

The only sins that are bound to die alot are the sins that don't know when to retreat. There are more than enough to ways to defend yourself as a sin, as well as to retreat if the going gets tough. If sin players fail to make use of what's available to them, then they will die often.

pve-er · Sep 22, 2006, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAPhoenix

A well played sin rarely dies

The only sins that are bound to die alot are the sins that don't know when to retreat. There are more than enough to ways to defend yourself as a sin, as well as to retreat if the going gets tough. If sin players fail to make use of what's available to them, then they will die often.

a good Sin know he/she should not goes into battle until attentionare put on tank and other teammate. he/she should know when is the the to choose next target or leave. if someone can perform these 2 point well enough, he or she just need healing skill and not much of defensive skill (healing skill is needed because of AOE damage and traps)

my build usually has 4 attack skill +Healing burst, Vigorous spirit purge condition. the 1 free slot are usually Return/Recall, or rebirth if my teammate requires it. work really well in most mission .

Morgarath · Sep 26, 2006, 02:40 PM // 14:40

I mean by that they are bound to die that they WILL die if they try to tank or rush into battle..sorry about the way i phrased it. But AoD does help...assassins name of the game is basically hit and run

LeoZero83 · Sep 27, 2006, 04:59 AM // 04:59

Hello all, this is my first post here!
yeah, a lot of stereotype about assasins r running around. True, there r noob assasins. When i play my other chars, if a Ele and a sin want to join, i would really choose the Ele over the sin. In my own experiences, i have seen some: Sins who shadow-step in and attack the mob ( and got pwned) before the tanks approach, sins who dont bring any defensive skills, and yeah, sins who got 60% DP so fast

, etc.
Despite all this, I made a Sins 4 days ago, and I am very fond of my sins. i completed Factions in 2 days by following a simple rule: DONT TANK. Sins cant last as long as warrior because of low armor, but a skillful A/W wouldnt have any problem being a evasive tank w/ Critical Defense & Wild Blow. My A/W do fine holding up against 3 NPC Luxon Warriors in AB, and in Fort Aspenwood, i can go capping all points outside just by myself ( I'm on Lurzick side btw). i dont really have any problem encounter any other classes in PvP unless they use speed-impairment skills ( deep freeze, crippling anguish, etc.) or heavy degen skills.
Every class has its own weaknessses and strengths ( both in PvE and PvP), skillful players r those who know those strengths and weaknesses and exploit them.
A guy said in a earlier post that he would reject all assasins w/ no excpetions, becuz he thinks: even though ppl who play core classes and sux, they still contribute some sort of benefits tothe groups. then tell me, how the hell a monk who doesnt heal beneficial? A ranger who cant interupt beneficial? That is just another fuking stereotype. If i use the same logic as that guy does, i wouldnt invite any Warrior into my AB group, becuz some of them choose to rush ahead w/ Sprint and got pwned, rather than stay and support the group ( some even rush ahead before completing the capping). there are no good or bad professions, there r only good or bad players.
Conclusion, Sins dont sux

. If u haven't played Sin yet, u actually have no idea about it, therefore, u dont have enough information to judge it.
Sry for the long post

. I kkept getting the code 007 error tonite, so i dont have anything else to do.

Me And The Henchies · Sep 27, 2006, 05:19 AM // 05:19

I made an assassin a few days ago and for awhile I was tanking, not meaning to but I'm so used to my w/mo.
When i got out of noob island I had to change that fast or else i wouldnt stand a chance against anything. Assassins do die easily, and not everyone can play them well. My friend got survivor on his assassin, I couldnt ever do that.
Just goes to show that like all classes, some people play them well and some don't.

prodigy ming · Sep 27, 2006, 05:46 AM // 05:46

Despite being a faction profession, Cathan is not made for assassins. It seriously makes me wonder how Anet manage to not see the result of constant afflicted explosion and a low armor melee class. If you bring your sin to Tyria, its a much nicer place.

SAPhoenix · Sep 27, 2006, 07:09 AM // 07:09

When the going gets tough, the tough get going.

If Cantha wasn't made for assassins, they would never have been native to Cantha. It comes back to what I said previously about knowing when to back off. Sins can survive just fine in Cantha. They have low armor for a reason. They also have shadow stepping and defensive measures for a reason. Knowing WHEN to retreat is half the battle won for a sin.

Seriously, with just Shadow of Haste and a stance cancel, you can survive in Cantha well enough.

Tyria is a much nicer place, but if you want to hone your survival skills and don't mind a challenge, stick with Cantha. Cantha will teach ANYONE how to be a good assassin. If not, then the class isn't for you. It's a good method to determine whether you should be playing the class or not.

Pick Me · Sep 27, 2006, 12:45 PM // 12:45

I've been playing the Assassin class for a while now, and people still stereo type them.

We can do as much damage as a warrior can (on average) and, while not all assassins flee after their combo is done, we can do more than just die.

There isn't a single class or player who can say they have never once in their entire life never died. Assassins die more often because people do not play them properly.

I play monks and ritualists (as well as elementalists, mesmers, rangers, warriors and necromancers too), and I will accept an Assassin or two when I have the room. I will not just leave a group if I see two assassins (or just one). I won't reject an assassin if I already have 2 healers, 1 ele, 2 warriors, 1 necro, 1 ranger, and space for one more (this would include myself).

Believe me, Assassins played well is a great profession to have on your team.
Worst case scenario, if the Assassin tries to tank, don't heal. Its that simple.
If you tell me it just wastes a slot (and firepower) to bring a Sin, then so does people who AFK, BRB, Lag Out, or those who just leave during a mission. I've been in groups where all of that happened (the assassin stayed and we almost completed the mission). Loss of firepower from people who just want a free ride.... that is the worst.

pve-er · Sep 27, 2006, 05:01 PM // 17:01

I use assassin, and I don't mind to have another one in a group that is already well build (1~2 tank, nuker, necro, 1~2 monk, Rt, ranger, mesmer....)
Assassin is a fun class and its secrecy cover not only to enemy but teammate as well.

it cover teamate because:
1. Monk only look at your health bar and not what you do
2. because Sin do their job in the back line of enemy,while other is busy with agrro, they didn't see you are killing casters.

people just didn't notice what you are doing in teh enemy backline. they didn't notice that mesmer stop spamming hex, didn't notice the aggro tank didn't get heal, they didn't notice stone scale kirin stop summoning Vemp. Horro nor they realize teh foe that chase our monk is running away or get kill because they lost a lot of Health spiked by Assassin then finish off by other teamate.
like mesmer, our skill don't have much light or sound effect, if someone don't click on the Health bar of a foe, they will think we are just auto attacking.

because people only notice their Sin when Sins lost health and died, they think Sin do nothing and sucks

joncoish · Sep 27, 2006, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Assassins are awesome, and cantha isn't too hard. Everyone says Assassins are a tough class, but I'm for the most part zipping through the cantha missions with my assassin and henchman. It is true what people are saying though, Assassins more then any other class require more of a specific way of play to master them, and sometimes that might be hard to get used to. When I first started my Assassin I died like crazy, especially first when I left the trainee island for the mainland. But you know what? After a bit of practice and persistence I've become used to how they play, and my deaths have gone down dramatically. I rarely die now, and if I do well so do most classes from time to time.

joncoish · Sep 27, 2006, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Assassins are awesome, and cantha isn't too hard. Everyone says Assassins are a tough class, but I'm for the most part zipping through the cantha missions with my assassin and henchman. It is true what people are saying though, Assassins more then any other class require more of a specific way of play to master them, and sometimes that might be hard to get used to. When I first started my Assassin I died like crazy, especially first when I left the trainee island for the mainland. But you know what? After a bit of practice and persistence I've become used to how they play, and my deaths have gone down dramatically. I rarely die now, and if I do well so do most classes from time to time.

pve-er · Sep 27, 2006, 06:00 PM // 18:00

agree with you, I die a lot in teh beginnig, so far I died 1500+ times mainly because I play fort aspenwood a lot.
now I don't die like crazy with my Sin and after playing a Sin, I leanr when to run and that keep my nuker live longer then before too. Assassin is a good training for most of the caster class.

I love to see my teammate struggle with a foe when I already kill off at least one in teh backline alone (they are too busy attack the aggro and ignore my target, all they do for me is heal)
every time I see that I will be like "WTH, 5 of youcan't kill off 1 enemy? lol" but I won't say it to their face
assassin rocks

prodigy ming · Sep 27, 2006, 11:27 PM // 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAPhoenix

When the going gets tough, the tough get going.

If Cantha wasn't made for assassins, they would never have been native to Cantha. It comes back to what I said previously about knowing when to back off. Sins can survive just fine in Cantha. They have low armor for a reason. They also have shadow stepping and defensive measures for a reason. Knowing WHEN to retreat is half the battle won for a sin.

Seriously, with just Shadow of Haste and a stance cancel, you can survive in Cantha well enough.

Tyria is a much nicer place, but if you want to hone your survival skills and don't mind a challenge, stick with Cantha. Cantha will teach ANYONE how to be a good assassin. If not, then the class isn't for you. It's a good method to determine whether you should be playing the class or not.

Wheater assassins survive well in Cathan or not has nothing to do with why they are native to Cathan. They are native to Cathan only because Anet feels that it will draw a larger crowd to the game if they add some sort of ninja looking character in a stereotypical Asian setting.
Half the time sins dies in Cathan not only because they tank, but as a melee class, they are also very vulnerable to afflicted explosion and I belive thats an obvious oversight for Anet. It was totally uncall for. Also the lack of learning time and rush pace of faction compare to prophecies makes most sin lacking when they leave newb island. Most people don't know how to play them correctly until the game is almost over. Others just give up playing as a real sin and switch to crit barragner.
I have played thru Cathan with my sin and even got the 15k armor for him. In all honesty its one of the most fun class to play, and maybe you are right that Cathan is a good training ground for assassin, but that doesnt' change the fact that Cathan is not sin friendly. If assassins were introduced as a prophecies class where players don't have to rush through the whole game or put up with sudden death explosion, I am sure the sin's name wouldn't be as bad as today.

pve-er · Sep 28, 2006, 12:36 AM // 00:36

that mean the stereotype should be change as "if you are in cantha, don't take sin, elsewhere, take them" lol

seven · Sep 28, 2006, 04:47 AM // 04:47

i agree that cantha is actually a great place to train good assassins.

from the large numbers of mobs, to the afflicted explosions; i felt it's a great way to weed out the leeroy-minded people from mastering them.

during the first days of factions, i admit i died quite a lot as well. but with every death, simple and effective lessons were learned:

-not rushing in first

-split second priority target selection. even before an enemy drops, you are already thinking about the sequence of your next targets. will you help out your backline monk, or forge ahead through the enemy weak side?

-larger battlefield awareness. before i used a sassy, i would just mind my current target and just concentrate on that. now, in the heat of battles, i use max zoom out for better view; always mindful of where my teammates and enemies are exactly, who is engaging who, their hp status, ect. are there monsters on their way to attack you, or ready to set up a spike on you? will you be able to pull of a whole combo on a monster being already attacked by your teammates or select another unattended one? should you shadowstep out of the fray right now, or is the place you return, AoD, recall back to actually safe?

-map positioning. honestly, i coudn't imagine before how will a dagger sassy
would fare well in crowded places especially in raisu, where everything just seems one big mass of baddies. with some practice, you'll be able to recognize safe spots and passages and optimum places of attacks, lowering the chances of getting bodyblocked and being cut off from an escape route.

-and the most important of all: learning how and when to run away. i felt that the afflicted explosions gave that very important lesson. most often, people do not realize the limits of what their characters can take and dies in the process. by making the sassys quite fraglie in terms of armor actually teaches you to constantly watch out for your hp and enemy skill usage on you.

-------

that said, perhaps there was some over-estimation torwards the general players that they would be able to learn how to properly play assassins with these set of "training" obstacles. however that was not the case, and many just kept dying without learning at all, hence the current unfavorable view on the class. as much as cantha is a great place to learn on how to become a good assassin, it doesn't prevent leeroys from playing them.

but to those who stuck with it and learned, cantha as a whole was quite a good training ground.

Me And The Henchies · Sep 28, 2006, 05:01 AM // 05:01

I only use henchies for like.. everything. I don't go good with other groups cause if I do bad I feel like i let the group down or something. When using henchies you kinda have to rush in there first, or atleast thats how I see it.
I've had my sin for maybe a week now, I don't find Cantha too hard at all..

prodigy ming · Sep 28, 2006, 05:54 AM // 05:54

keep in mind that these "leeory" that theoretically Cathan would weed out does not actually stop playing with a sin. Most of them continue playing badly and give a bad name to sin.

SAPhoenix · Sep 28, 2006, 07:12 AM // 07:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by prodigy ming

Wheater assassins survive well in Cathan or not has nothing to do with why they are native to Cathan.

Yep, thats true. As with any class in the game, survival is dependant on the abilities of the player. This is also why sin players die often. There are a lot of them that don't know how to survive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by prodigy ming

They are native to Cathan only because Anet feels that it will draw a larger crowd to the game if they add some sort of ninja looking character in a stereotypical Asian setting.

I can't say if that actually was ANET's marketing strategy, who knows. If it is the case, they succeeded. However, the assassins are native to Cantha, not primarily as a marketing strategy or a need to include a class because it has ninja abilities, but as a unique and original addition to the Guild Wars universe. And in that respect, they also succeeded. It is hardly a mistake on ANET's part to have included a class with amazing offensive capabilities and weak armor in Factions. If you think about it logically, the Assassin's ability to kill quickly (in many cases, far quicker than any other class in the game, and it does it ALONE, not with the assistance of a another class) means that it had to have some measure in place to balance the class out. Hence the weak armor. If ANET just started adding classes to each instalment because they "look" cool, then no one would really bother playing except noobs that are completely oblivious to anything other than the aesthetic aspect of the classes. Fortunately, we know that that is not the case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by prodigy ming

Half the time sins dies in Cathan not only because they tank, but as a melee class, they are also very vulnerable to afflicted explosion and I belive thats an obvious oversight for Anet. It was totally uncall for. Also the lack of learning time and rush pace of faction compare to prophecies makes most sin lacking when they leave newb island. Most people don't know how to play them correctly until the game is almost over. Others just give up playing as a real sin and switch to crit barragner.

Yep, sins die alot in Cantha. Yep, most of those deaths are as a result of tanking. And yeah, they are very vulnerable to afflicted explosions. But it's hardly an oversight, nor is it uncalled for. It is simply an opportunity to learn from one's mistakes. And that applies to every class. All other classes are just as susceptible to those explosions as sins are. The difference is that the classes that take the most damage from those explosions are the casters who are usually in the backline, whereas the sin is forced to jump to the fore to do damage. But as quickly as they can zip to the front to take out a target, they can just as quickly zip back to safety. They have the skills to do it, but ppl don't want to make use of them. They prefer to attempt tanking with certain secondary skills to boost their defenses, and I know there are a lot of sins out there that do it, some with more success than others. But I'll use an example. Just because a mesmer with 16 Illusion Magic and IW can do some nice damage doesn't mean that the mesmer should be in the frontlines now does it. Look at the primary roles that each class is supposed to play, without being stereotypical. The warrior is primarily a tank/pressure class. It has the defensive/offensive abilities to do so. The monk is primarily a healer/protector. Even though it can do other things, at the core, that is what it is best at. You could play a warrior as a caster and a monk as a melee type with moderate success, but the primary roles of those classes usually overshadows the other roles that they could play.

Now we come back to the sin. The sin is one of the best at killing quickly. It's a fact, one that no one will dispute. Yes, it can tank. That doesn't mean that it should. Taking into account what you said about sins trying to tank and dying in the process, it pretty much sums this up. That is not ANET's fault, it is the player's fault.

Quote:

Originally Posted by prodigy ming

I have played thru Cathan with my sin and even got the 15k armor for him. In all honesty its one of the most fun class to play, and maybe you are right that Cathan is a good training ground for assassin, but that doesnt' change the fact that Cathan is not sin friendly. If assassins were introduced as a prophecies class where players don't have to rush through the whole game or put up with sudden death explosion, I am sure the sin's name wouldn't be as bad as today.

I would rather say that Cantha is not noob friendly. Cantha is hardly an accomodating place for any class, but the reason why sins die more than other classes in Cantha is not because Cantha doesn't suit the sin. The reason why sins die in Cantha is because of the way they are played.

If sin players do struggle in Cantha, the option is always there to go to Tyria and lvl there in a more "comfortable" environment. Sure, there aren't any explosions there. Sure, sins are more liked there. But I think, to break the stereotypes surrounding the class, it is better to stick it out in Cantha and prove to ppl that the sin is more than capable of surviving there, instead of taking the easy way out and heading to Tyria because it is more "accomodating". I think a sin that can survive several missions in Cantha as opposed to Tyria will be greatly admired and respected.

The only reason sins have a bad name is due to bad players, not due to ANET screwing the class over.

Superdarth · Sep 28, 2006, 04:55 PM // 16:55

I have the habit of standing my ground but my assasin is DEFINETLY a person that can kick ass,it realy makes me sad when i hear "No assa,kick assa,wtf assasin?" and i get kicked,worse its mostly some dumbshit WAMMO,whereas im left thinking "You didnt even gimme a chance to prove myself how would you know i suck?"

I however,do my best to be a real contribute to the team,i dish out alot of damage and i take along blinding powder and shroud of distress,wich keep the enemies off long enough to use shadow refuge,at wich point im fine enough to keep alive until the team comes and kills the guy attacking me.

Its not very hard proving im worth it,the thing it GETTING a group,and im sick of the stereotype myself.

I realy hope folks will see the value of assasin one day and it will be the wammo getting booted,not me.