Curse

Algeron Zolo · Aug 31, 2006, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by capblueberry

ok im trying to cap Aura of Displacement and Flashing blades for my assassin but am havnig a bit a trouble cause by the stereotype that all assassin's are automatically tanking noobs, this is definately not true

as a matter of fact i brought dash with me while doing missions and my group got mad at me cuz they said "its a waste of a skill" where as i was using it to get out of aggro and NOT tank, so what exactly am i supposed to do wen if i tank i get yelled at and if i try to escape i get yelled at? hmmmm

its ridiculously hard to get through the (imo boring and repetitive) factions campaign with a sin

also assassins r perfectly capable to laying down insane amounts of damage, i did 100 just yesterday to a lvl 21 enemy, and over 140 damage using a dual attack in the same area vs someone else

NOT ALL ASSASSINS ARE NOOBS, SURE SOME OF THEM WILL ATTEMPT TO TANK, BUT NOT ALL OF THEM, SO DONT COUNT OUT A VERY GOOD DAMAGE DEALER JUST CUZ OF THIS DUMB STEROTYPE!!!

OMG!!!! THANK YOU!!!!!

Chris Blackstar · Aug 31, 2006, 10:33 PM // 22:33

To use an assasin takes skill, plain and simple. I have cap every elete skill for my sin, and completed both profeticey(which I can't spell today) and Factions. Yes even I thought that sins sucked before I played one.

All I can say is use henchies where possible and look for excepting groups, just explain to them that you practiced, and you realize that sins do not tank, but assist with killing off enemy casters, or finish off already damaged enemies or bosses. then they may be more willing to invite you. Also make sure you stay alive, the less you die and the more damage you inflict, the more players will reconized sins as a formable class.

My sin now can tear through anything, and die less often then most other tanks or players classes, and in pvp can destroy tanks 1V1, better then my W/Mo can.

I will admit however that monks hate sins, for one true reason, if not backed up by another monk in PvP, then that monk will die in less then 15 seconds by a good sin, and the fact that they get tired of healing/rezing sins that suck.

Conjure Pwntasm · Aug 31, 2006, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

If you wanted to play with barrage in the mid line, you should have rolled a Ranger. This goes for fast cast nukers too. You want to play an ele, go roll one. When I invite you on the team as a mesmer, I expect you to play one.

lol this piece of work makes the next quote hilarious.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

Since when does "Play your class" mean "Play this particular cookie cutter build. ie "Play a necro" = "Play SS or MM", "Play an ele" = "Bring meteor shower, meteor, fireball etc"?

I really don't care what build you're playing, as long as we have damage, damage mitigation and a bit of healing somewhere along the lines in pretty much any form. I just care that you play your goddamn class.

Wow, contradiction ftl. Thats exactly what you made it sound like in your first post. You said if you want to use barrage then bring a ranger but a crit barrage sin can spread just as much damage to clumps as a Ranger. An FC Nuker can nuke just as well as an ele with more accuracy (nuking an area faster before aggro changes, maelstorming or MSing dangerous targets without long cast times).

If you weren't too busy being close minded maybe you would have realized this before you posted.

Dawgboy · Aug 31, 2006, 10:42 PM // 22:42

I have seen a few good assasins and a LOT of bad ones. That's not a stereotype, that's my personal observations. I'd say out of a dozen or so I've seen 2 good ones. When they know what they're doing they're a high value party member. When they don't they're just a drain.

The bad ones think they can go toe-to-toe with a group of monsters and come out alive. They don't know that "hit and run" is better than "hit,hit,hit,and die".

My main char. is a healer, so I keep track of who is doing what and who is being slaughtered. When the 'sin starts taking damage it piles up quicker than I can heal. When the warrior takes damage it's manageable. Frankly, after a bit I don't even bother trying to heal or res the bad assasins. It's just a waste of my energy.

Maybe you shouldn't be mad at all the groups that won't take you-you should be mad at all the crappy assasins that give your profession a bad name.

NOTE: The above is for PvE- I'm sure PvP assasins rock, but I only PvE so I can't say from personal experience.

Unaccurate · Aug 31, 2006, 10:56 PM // 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Blackstar

I will admit however that monks hate sins, for one true reason, if not backed up by another monk in PvP, then that monk will die in less then 15 seconds by a good sin, and the fact that they get tired of healing/rezing sins that suck.

pvp= ra? funny you mentioned it was better than your w/mo...

Sekkira · Aug 31, 2006, 11:04 PM // 23:04

I wont deny that Crit Barrage Sins are very good overall damage dealers, but lets get to the point of why people really use them in PvE, why people use FC Nukers, etc. They can't get a group otherwise. It's really gimping their primary proffession. If they can't get a group playing a mesmer or sin, why do they change their build to play something their secondary is? Why not just go roll the primary instead?

I would say that coming into my group and me forcing you to play your primary if you want to stay in sends a message out there that the class is just as usefull as any other. Dammit I think I lost my train of thought again.

sinican · Aug 31, 2006, 11:07 PM // 23:07

yea yea same old story...

I do have a Sin I have played through the game I have PvPed with him...

the Assassin class offers NOTHING that cannot be achieved by other classes with more success...

I dislike the Sin because I still believe they are missing something... no i really dont know what...

the class requires being played certain ways whether your a sucky player or a good player that to me makes the assassin suck... there really is no diversity in the class

pvp=good
pve=good till lvl 20 mobs then sucks alot any further...

the clas relies heavily on ciritical hits to be up to par... even energy management depends on criticals and they just get slammed when lvl 20+ mobs come alone the chance to land criticals drops dramatically and makes them shit...

I dislike how the assassin typically has to remove themselves from the fight more often then not to be effective... its rediculous haveing to pop in and out all the time it completely halves the amount of dmg a Sin is capable of

really all that i have to say about the assassin it they have the "capability" to be a damn good class and i dont care how well some people think they can play them... they are easily replaced and non desired because of how they are required to be played... and for that they will remain "capable" and be found "lacking"

this isnt a bash im speaking out of disapointment and sincerity... i had extremely high hopes for the class... but when i cant get into a group for days on end to complete the final 2 missions of cantha thats just sad... and when its imposible to get into groups for masters unless u have a guild willing to drag your ass through it just sucks... they cannot keep up without being pampered and supported the entire way... no assassin will be surviving a party slaughter to come back and save the team... but every other class has that ability...

Sekkira · Aug 31, 2006, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conjure Pwntasm

Wow, contradiction ftl. Thats exactly what you made it sound like in your first post. You said if you want to use barrage then bring a ranger but a crit barrage sin can spread just as much damage to clumps as a Ranger. An FC Nuker can nuke just as well as an ele with more accuracy (nuking an area faster before aggro changes, maelstorming or MSing dangerous targets without long cast times).

If you weren't too busy being close minded maybe you would have realized this before you posted.

How is this a contradiction? Did I say Critical barrage is less effective than a Primary Ranger? Did I say a FC Nuker is less effective than a Primary Elementalist? No. I simply stated that if you're coming into my group, you play your primary. Playing a FC Nuker has the disadvantage of less damage but the advantage of more speed, other way around for a primary Ele.

It still doesn't matter, if you want to be in my group, you play your primary. Every other group around me will take a critical barrage sin because an actual assassin sucks obviously and of course the same with mesmers being fast cast nukers. You can't seriously expect either of those classes to contribute to the team, can you?

On top of that, if you wont play a mesmer or sin as their primary, why the hell are you playing one in the first place? If all you can do is spam barrage or throw fireballs on a clumped up group, why are you playing the profession that was made for shutting down/assassinating key enemies?

unholy guardian · Aug 31, 2006, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Unfortunally i have only seen a handful of good assassins, one being me included. Some think so outside the box they try to be a minion master... which is wrong O_O

dargon · Aug 31, 2006, 11:39 PM // 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinican

y
1.) the Assassin class offers NOTHING that cannot be achieved by other classes with more success...

.....

2.) pvp=good
pve=good till lvl 20 mobs then sucks alot any further...

the clas relies heavily on ciritical hits to be up to par... even energy management depends on criticals and they just get slammed when lvl 20+ mobs come alone the chance to land criticals drops dramatically and makes them shit...

...

3.) this isnt a bash im speaking out of disapointment and sincerity... i had extremely high hopes for the class... but when i cant get into a group for days on end to complete the final 2 missions of cantha thats just sad... and when its imposible to get into groups for masters unless u have a guild willing to drag your ass through it just sucks... they cannot keep up without being pampered and supported the entire way... no assassin will be surviving a party slaughter to come back and save the team... but every other class has that ability...

Ok, allow me to poke a few holes

1) Show me another class in the game that can apply as many conditions as an assassin can without the aide of their secondary? The only condition that ISN'T in the assassin class is weakness

2.) Funny, my assassin never has energy issues

3.) I pugged or henched (personal choice, not because I couldn't find a party) a good 3/4 of Cantha. My assassin has Protector of Cantha, My assassin is currently 2.4% away from Max Cartographer of Cantha and I'm currently 2 missions from Protector of Tyria (Hell's Precipice and have to kill Glint). Guess what, during Abaddons Mouth, my assassin didn't die once, lost a couple henchmen but finished first run through. So, please show me a bit more details on why assassins suck, because if you play them right (you obviously don't if you've played one and think they suck so badly) an assassin is a very deadly addition to any party.

Tainek · Aug 31, 2006, 11:48 PM // 23:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

But zero of those things are more effective in PvE than the corresponding primary classes.

Won't go into it further, as it's off-topic. I recommend you make another one.

Can a necro throw around anywhere near the lifestealing damage of a Touch ranger? No , can a standard mesmer hex build throw around as many hex's as a attuned hexer? No (less power per hex is worth the tradeoff of being able to put hex's on 2x the mobs) And a Necro Sure as hell cant touch on the damage of a minionbomber rt/n , and so forth

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinican

yea yea same old story...

I do have a Sin I have played through the game I have PvPed with him...

the Assassin class offers NOTHING that cannot be achieved by other classes with more success...

I dislike the Sin because I still believe they are missing something... no i really dont know what...

the class requires being played certain ways whether your a sucky player or a good player that to me makes the assassin suck... there really is no diversity in the class

pvp=good
pve=good till lvl 20 mobs then sucks alot any further...

the clas relies heavily on ciritical hits to be up to par... even energy management depends on criticals and they just get slammed when lvl 20+ mobs come alone the chance to land criticals drops dramatically and makes them shit...

I dislike how the assassin typically has to remove themselves from the fight more often then not to be effective... its rediculous haveing to pop in and out all the time it completely halves the amount of dmg a Sin is capable of

really all that i have to say about the assassin it they have the "capability" to be a damn good class and i dont care how well some people think they can play them... they are easily replaced and non desired because of how they are required to be played... and for that they will remain "capable" and be found "lacking"

this isnt a bash im speaking out of disapointment and sincerity... i had extremely high hopes for the class... but when i cant get into a group for days on end to complete the final 2 missions of cantha thats just sad... and when its imposible to get into groups for masters unless u have a guild willing to drag your ass through it just sucks... they cannot keep up without being pampered and supported the entire way... no assassin will be surviving a party slaughter to come back and save the team... but every other class has that ability...

Just because You Cant play the class doesnt mean it sucks

Provided your party knows how to aggro (and more importently, you know to wait 10s before you start) , you will very rarly have to flee combat

Assassins do provide somthing other classes dont, they can go right to the back of an enemy backline, kill an enemy monk/rt/ele/mesmer/necro in 3 seconds, and pop back at the first sign of imminent danger, No other class can do this without putting themself at serious risk, and most likely killign the party, period

A well played assassin is actually the Last to die (tied with ranger)

Aggro Overflows, the monks are dead, the tanks almost dead, Poof! shadow step out of harms way, run away using dark escape, and return to rez

no other class can jut press a button and remove themself from danger, this is the assasins blessing

sinican · Aug 31, 2006, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by dargon

Ok, allow me to poke a few holes

1) Show me another class in the game that can apply as many conditions as an assassin can without the aide of their secondary? The only condition that ISN'T in the assassin class is weakness

2.) Funny, my assassin never has energy issues

3.) I pugged or henched (personal choice, not because I couldn't find a party) a good 3/4 of Cantha. My assassin has Protector of Cantha, My assassin is currently 2.4% away from Max Cartographer of Cantha and I'm currently 2 missions from Protector of Tyria (Hell's Precipice and have to kill Glint). Guess what, during Abaddons Mouth, my assassin didn't die once, lost a couple henchmen but finished first run through. So, please show me a bit more details on why assassins suck, because if you play them right (you obviously don't if you've played one and think they suck so badly) an assassin is a very deadly addition to any party.

1) why cant we use a secondary class to compair?? the assassin class has a cramped attribute system... it really isnt about what they can do but what they cant do and what good are conditions when the assassin cant be in half the battle to apply them..

2) no energy problems cool what do you sacrifice to manage that??? more dmg?? maybe because u have to leave the fight?? critical hits attribute becomes useless past lvl 20 mobs... i know you like debateing this but im not trying to post my opinion here... if they cut off how lvl 21+ affect critical hits this class would be much more versatile and survivable and do their job better... i didnt make the comment so we could have a pissing contest...

3) thats great so did I and the missions i couldnt hench i had to spam and spam for pugs and typically the only ones i could get in where sucky ones because the reliable pugs didnt want assassins... a group is only as good as its weakest link... and yes their are sucky players and good players bt even a half way decent player can play any class better than a good player playing and assassin...

Im not against the class people i want it to be something... and the more people want to argue that they arent underpar the less likely they will get some buffs that they probably need...

bunnyblaster · Aug 31, 2006, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

How is this a contradiction? Did I say Critical barrage is less effective than a Primary Ranger? Did I say a FC Nuker is less effective than a Primary Elementalist? No. I simply stated that if you're coming into my group, you play your primary. Playing a FC Nuker has the disadvantage of less damage but the advantage of more speed, other way around for a primary Ele.

It still doesn't matter, if you want to be in my group, you play your primary. Every other group around me will take a critical barrage sin because an actual assassin sucks obviously and of course the same with mesmers being fast cast nukers. You can't seriously expect either of those classes to contribute to the team, can you?

On top of that, if you wont play a mesmer or sin as their primary, why the hell are you playing one in the first place? If all you can do is spam barrage or throw fireballs on a clumped up group, why are you playing the profession that was made for shutting down/assassinating key enemies?

You are not making any sense. For almost the entire game of factions with exploding monsters and all, being ranged is better for assassin. Yes, I dare say in all instances in Factions, which is the birthplace of assassins, Critical Barrager will outperform any other build in pve.

For you not to accept them into groups and forcing them to use primary skills to damage is just a show of stupidity and ignorance.

EPYON

gamecube187 · Aug 31, 2006, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hand of Ruin

Honestly, if you don't want to hench half the game and spend twice as long finding groups as other people, delete your assassin and make something more useful.

Why would we do that if assassin is one of the funnest classes to play? (at least a lot of people that like assassin, including me, seem to think this) Plus, some people (such as me) want to play the game with EVERY SINGLE PRIMARY PROFESSION. I don't see how I would be able to do that if I deleted my sin....

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinican

the Assassin class offers NOTHING that cannot be achieved by other classes with more success...

no assassin will be surviving a party slaughter to come back and save the team... but every other class has that ability...

Nothing, exept the fact that they can deal out a lot more damage than many other classes, even if you include the fact that they have to leave the battle.....

And if assassins can't survive a party slaughter, then how come I've been in parties that were saved by assassins before?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

It still doesn't matter, if you want to be in my group, you play your primary. Every other group around me will take a critical barrage sin because an actual assassin sucks obviously and of course the same with mesmers being fast cast nukers. You can't seriously expect either of those classes to contribute to the team, can you?

Accually, I do expect (and know) that every class, including assassin and mesmer can, and usually do contribute the the team. In fact, those two are probably the classes that benifit the team most, and yet, amazingly, they are looked down upon just because either it isn't exactly easy to tell what they are doing to contribute (mesmer), or there were "noobs" that were really bad at the class and now people still think those "noobs" are just as bad at that class as they were before(assassin). Then they don't admit (and in many cases, don't even bother to think) that maybe the classes are more useful than they thought at first.

Its stuff like this that makes me hope that the "heros" from nightfall will be customizable henchies that you can accually control and that have at least half the IQ of an average player....if only people were more open-minded...

sinican · Aug 31, 2006, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tainek

Can a necro throw around anywhere near the lifestealing damage of a Touch ranger? No , can a standard mesmer hex build throw around as many hex's as a attuned hexer? No (less power per hex is worth the tradeoff of being able to put hex's on 2x the mobs) And a Necro Sure as hell cant touch on the damage of a minionbomber rt/n , and so forth

Just because You Cant play the class doesnt mean it sucks

Provided your party knows how to aggro (and more importently, you know to wait 10s before you start) , you will very rarly have to flee combat

Assassins do provide somthing other classes dont, they can go right to the back of an enemy backline, kill an enemy monk/rt/ele/mesmer/necro in 3 seconds, and pop back at the first sign of imminent danger, No other class can do this without putting themself at serious risk, and most likely killign the party, period

A well played assassin is actually the Last to die (tied with ranger)

Aggro Overflows, the monks are dead, the tanks almost dead, Poof! shadow step out of harms way, run away using dark escape, and return to rez

no other class can jut press a button and remove themself from danger, this is the assasins blessing

lol and this is where your ignorance shows...

I know how to play the class... i enjoyed the class very much up till the point in the game where my critical strikes were no longer reliable and finding a half decent pug was damn near imposable and when henching no longer worked... I can hold my own with the assassin...

I totally get it that you all love your assassins... i like the IDEA of the class as well but im very displeased with how the class actually functions... and if you want to argue their incompetence to the death so be it they will continue to be lacking and be second to all....

i just love how anyone that has an opinion against the assassin automatically gets accused of not being able to play one... and thats another point... the assassin needs to be played right to be good... well thats another reason why they suck every other class has diversity and still can be played well you dont need FotM to be successfull with every other class the assassin you do.... that makes the class in my eyes completely crap

you all can continue to argue with me whatever... it doesnt help the class none to defend it when it DEFINATELY needs some rescuing.... ive stated my opinion and im done... thanks all

KANE OG · Sep 01, 2006, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Yay! Another "nobody will take my Assassin" thread! Seriously, I took mine through both campaigns easily, capping along the way with henchies and guildies. Another suggestion, just get together with 7 other Sins in a group and go out and kick some butt. It works. Diverse secondaries help a bunch tho. Good luck.

XvArchonvX · Sep 01, 2006, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Kinda sad that there are people ignorant enough to discredit a build simply because a primary of one profession is using mostly skills/weapons of another class. Crit barragers can hold their own just fine and are one of many builds that use skills of another profession effectively. R/A dagger based rangers, Rt/N Minion Bombers, E/Mo Heal Party eles, etc are just a few examples of the many builds that are proven to serve well when used right.

Carl Butanananowski · Sep 01, 2006, 12:08 AM // 00:08

I made a sin, way back when factions first came out (

), and i was astounded by the prejudice(sp?) that already exsisted. It was like, the second week it had been out, and already no one would invite me in Minister Cho's at all.

I wasnt in a guild at that time, so dont give me that crappy flame-respones(sp? i cant spell >.>).

Antheus · Sep 01, 2006, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

I wont deny that Crit Barrage Sins are very good overall damage dealers, but lets get to the point of why people really use them in PvE, why people use FC Nukers, etc. They can't get a group otherwise. It's really gimping their primary proffession. If they can't get a group playing a mesmer or sin, why do they change their build to play something their secondary is? Why not just go roll the primary instead?

A thought on weird builds.

I have a mesmer that I tried to get through Factions. PUGs won't take mesmers. End of story. If you get into a group, it's because it consists out of 4 ritualists, 2 warriors and a ranger. Not the ideal group.

After much deliberation, I went for me/e nuker. Went on with henchies only and sadly, was considerably more effective than any me/ build I tried. Major reason for this is pure damage a MS nuke does compared to combined henchie damage.

Is FC nuker inferior to echo/glyph nuker? Certainly. But I've found that in too many missions the basic nuker will contribute more to the group than a good mesmer build (exception are missions where I went mostly interrupt), due to mission type, enemy classes, or general mission design.

In most cases, these builds serve one purpose: To get into a random PUG that doesn't accept unpopular primaries, or where certain primaries are unsuitable/undesirable/unneeded due to enemy composition.

One example of this would be Naphui quarter. A necro has hard time there, due to lack of corpses towards end, heavy hex removal, and very diverse enemy composition. After trying several common and slightly less common n/ builds with PUGs I gave up. I went n/mo bonder with OoB. Made it with henchies in first try. Goofy build? Definitely. But sometimes you don't have a choice.

As said above, sometimes it's better to be a poor contributor, than a disaster.

Desires · Sep 01, 2006, 05:32 AM // 05:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinican

1) why cant we use a secondary class to compair?? the assassin class has a cramped attribute system... it really isnt about what they can do but what they cant do and what good are conditions when the assassin cant be in half the battle to apply them..

2) no energy problems cool what do you sacrifice to manage that??? more dmg?? maybe because u have to leave the fight?? critical hits attribute becomes useless past lvl 20 mobs... i know you like debateing this but im not trying to post my opinion here... if they cut off how lvl 21+ affect critical hits this class would be much more versatile and survivable and do their job better... i didnt make the comment so we could have a pissing contest...

3) thats great so did I and the missions i couldnt hench i had to spam and spam for pugs and typically the only ones i could get in where sucky ones because the reliable pugs didnt want assassins... a group is only as good as its weakest link... and yes their are sucky players and good players bt even a half way decent player can play any class better than a good player playing and assassin...

Im not against the class people i want it to be something... and the more people want to argue that they arent underpar the less likely they will get some buffs that they probably need...

1) If you got a good build and your skilled you should rarely if ever have a need to retreat heal up then run abck in after every kill. My build has no speed boosts or shadow steps and usally end with a moral boost(at most I'll get 1 death usally caused by a bad pull).

2) Their are many damage skills that help with energy. my genarl energy use goes something like this. 10+5/10+5+10+10+10+5(including enchantments hexs ect.) all right after one another and I'm ready to go again within a few seconds.

3) If you can't get into pugs its how you go about finding them the only mission I had trouble finding one for was hatchery cause their was about 8 people there and most were afk. I perfer to run groups rather then constantly spaming stuff like "Sin LFG", "Sin LFG yes I know I'm not a tank". Also if looking for a group whisper before randomly invite yourself use proper grammer and be respectfull and you can often get an invite(though once again I perfer to lead pugs as i have a few "tricks" to weed out idiots. Also I instantly reject all sin requests as most PEOPLE who play sins suck at playing sins(which may be weird coming from a sin but they do. I actaully dislike crappy sins more then people who won't pug with them as they cause the later.