Curse

Wyat Hawke · Oct 22, 2007, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

Quaker..... im sorry but you are obviously hopeless. every single thing you said in your last few posts was completely wrong,

As wrong as he may be, why don't you try to explain why he is wrong instead?

I don't disagree with you Coloneh, but you are making things a lot easier for yourself if you explain your point of view every now and then...

Nestaron · Oct 22, 2007, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Also a new Sin here... Anyone up for rating the build i've been playing with? :P

[skill]Golden Fox Strike[/skill][skill]Wild Strike[/skill][skill]Critical Strike[/skill][skill]Moebius Strike[/skill][skill]Death Blossom[/skill][skill]Critical Agility[/skill][skill]Mystic Regeneration[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

Works perfectly with Vampiric Daggers, which is good for me since i love Shiros Blades. Usually switch between Wild Strike and Exhausting Assault if i want an interupt. Also usually sub out Deathly blossom if i'm in need of more defense(critical defenses) or a shadow step... Reason i sub out Deathly is because i find Critical Strike more than enough for the majority of pve situations. Reason for mystic regen is because i tend to run with an enchantment heavy monk.

Think i'm 13 Dagger, 13 Critical and 8 Earth
All minor runes apart from vigor, with 2 vitae i think... using survivors insignias

moko · Oct 22, 2007, 09:20 PM // 21:20

i can survive.

i can deal more damage than you.

do you see the flaw?

post above^

critical defenses is better than lousy 6 regen any day. (or is it 4..?)

EDIT: whops! i did not see you run an enchant heavy monk -- well in that case it would depend on the area and difficulty! or your personal preference.

although the disadvantage is that you have to invest into higher runes to get a good result, which is not the case with defenses.

Quaker:

you seem to be keen on surviveability, however your surviveability is pretty bad. firstly, you don't run a superior vigor (money i guess?), you run a superior dagger rune, which should be a no-no. you are not using two vitae runes although you said:

Quote:

This build purposely uses low energy skills so that I don't need to divert resources into energy management.

why do you need additional energy on a energy easy build?

you have a "three" specced healing prayers for your breeze. now as everyone knows, breeze is already bad, so your result is bad. try using restful breeze if you want to.

now compare your elite

[skill]Flashing Blades[/skill] to

[skill]Critical Defenses[/skill]

if you take into consideration that Flashing Blades is a stance, and that you can easily cover your enchantment, Flashing Blades turns out to be bad. Crit Defenses refreshes itself every time, and it supplies the block when you need it most -- while you are not attacking. of course, it also blocks while attacking, but the latter is a lot more important. if you are about to die, you want to kite and get out of trouble and still have a good chance of blocking. Flashing Blades does not allow this.

Disrupting Stab alone is a pretty bad interrupt. in practise, it will never be as good as you think.

[skill]Disrupting Dagger[/skill] would always be a better choice. it has a few advantages

- it does not screw your combo (although yours has low recharges, so it doesn't matter a lot)
- it is usually faster
- it does not require melee range
- you don't need to be free of anti melee hexes nor blind to use it
- you can watch other targets and return to your original one

and yes, i do understand your point with thinking outside the box, it's fine in PvE, but some elite skills are absolutely bad compared to normal skills that exist. i do often run stuff which is worse than the normal (*sigh*, how i hate this term) pvx builds, or "cookie cutters", but these are based on something that does work -- in which the idea itself cannot really be improved. in this case it can be, so you might as well follow it.

also i think some users react a bit "allergic" to these types of builds because this is the reason sins were hated so much (and some still hate them) -- bad (build) usage.

i hope this is enough of an explanation for my short post from before

off topic:

anyone else got a laugh after reading this thread and viewing a certain avatar? :]

on a last note, i would certainly not call toilet and alex "kiddies" just cause their game experience is >slightly< superior to someone elses and they grow a "bit" tired of giving the same answers over and over. same goes for Coloneh. the search function has been working for a while now, people can easily go find MANY reasons as to why a certain skill is bad.

natural sugar · Oct 23, 2007, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

So, today I thought I would tryout Critical Agility since so many people seem to think it's so wonderful. I put it in my skill bar in place of the Death's Charge - other than that the skill bar was as in my OP. I used it while I took my Assassin from Vlox's Falls to Rata Sum. The party was my usual H&H group consisting of me (my assassin), Gwen (illusion/dom), Livia (mm), Pyre Fierceshot (interrupt), 2 henchie monks, henchie guardian warrior, and henchie interrupt ranger. (No need to comment on the group - it's partially just made up the way it is for fun sake.)
Sometimes I just used Flashing Blades only, sometimes I used FB plus CA, other times I just used CA. The overall verdit - a failure - CA won't stay in the skill bar.

When used in conjunction with FB, I saw no discernable difference in the amount of damage I received or the amount of time taken to kill an enemy/ mob.

When used alone, there were too many times when CA would run out and I would have to wait too long for the 30 second recharge. I received the most damage and came close to dying more often while using only it.

I'm not saying that CA is a bad skill - what I am saying is that it made no difference to the build I'm using. The IAS didn't have a noticeable affect on the damage - most of the Kraitts were dead before I could even get to my dual-attack. The extra armor didn't help because most enemies were blind anyway, and particularly didn't help when I was using FB too.

Basically, IMHO, the recharge on critical hit thing seems to be better in theory than in practice. In practice, there is too often too much time between critical hits. Factors that affect this are:
- the number of hits that aren't critical. Without some other critical hit inducing skill, only 13% of my hits would be criticals.
- the number of attacks that are blocked, or fail to land for whatever reason.
- the time it takes to hit the next enemy.
- the time it takes to hit the next mob.
Also:
- CA takes 1 second to "cast" and it interrupts your attack chain (if you need to reapply it during battle).
- if CA runs out, you have to wait for it to recharge to use it again. It has a 30-second recharge.

There are, no doubt, builds that produce more critical hits, or in other ways make CA more effective, but the point is that, like most skills, CA is not the "bestest" skill to use in every build.

Test out CA in more than just one area if you want to get an accurate perception of how it works. If you put enough points into Crit Strikes, there's no reason why it should be ending as fast as you claim. Whenever I run it, I can easily get 45 seconds+ just going from mob to mob. Obviously if there's a huge gap between mobs you'll have to recast it, but as long as you precast before coming into a group there's no worry of interruption. If you're still having problems maintaining it from crits, add Critical Eye in place of HB (which is just burning a spot on your bar since its completely useless as a self-heal). And generally, running a superior rune on a sin is a terrible idea. The damage increase from those points is negligible and survivability really takes a hit when you lose 75HP (esp since you only have 70AL).

I'm not going to repeat the argument of FB v. CD, Mokone covered it well in the previous post. Keep in mind that dropping FB will allow you to get a better elite on your bar (like Moebius).

Oh, and I'm not saying CA is the "bestest" skill either. If you use it properly, however, you WILL notice the difference.

Sqube · Oct 23, 2007, 12:30 AM // 00:30

I'm just curious as to how you haven't noticed a 33% IAS in your build. Are the H+H so efficient that you can't even get through L-O-D without somebody being dead?

Coloneh · Oct 23, 2007, 04:41 AM // 04:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyat Hawke

As wrong as he may be, why don't you try to explain why he is wrong instead?

I had five minutes, and explaining all of that would have taken half an hour. now i see that he is even worse than i thought. dont expect to much more help from me here, Ignorant people piss me off.

Mickey · Oct 23, 2007, 05:00 AM // 05:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

I had five minutes, and explaining all of that would have taken half an hour. now i see that he is even worse than i thought. dont expect to much more help from me here, Ignorant people piss me off.

CA + CD + DB + MS = Best Assassin Combo for PVE imo.

It's basically sex in a pixel box.

The fact that the OP does not see that CA may be the best assassin skill out their as a utility skill to have in a bar is disheartening.

AL + Increased Attack Speed = WTF are you doing without it in your bar in PvE?

Jaigoda · Oct 23, 2007, 05:05 AM // 05:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

I believe it's a 4 spec'd breeze, but I'd have to check. I don't actually have that much need to use any self healing actually, but I like to have it just in case. Restful Breeze ends if you attack or use a skill.

Just so you know, if you have 12 points in two attributes, the leftovers will give you 3 in a third, which gives +4 regen, or an extremely expensive Mending. You might as well bring Echo, 'eh?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

Critical Defenses has the same problem that Critical Agility has - in theory it sounds great, but in practice it falls short - it only refreshes itself whenever you land a critical hit. Too often your attack is blocked, or you are switching targets (or mobs), or for some other reason, too much time goes by and the skill ends. Then the 30 second recharge time becomes a major hindrance.

What kicks me the most is that prior to your post, you probably never extensively (or even ever) used either of these skills. But actually, I would agree that CD has a short duration, and I usually don't include it in my builds, but NOT because it won't last the recharge, because it's 10 energy, which is a lot when you pre-cast your enchantments.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

If I'm about to die, I kite back to the healers and they heal me, or else I use the Breeze, or I just plain die - no biggie.

So basically, when you're about to die, you stop using your only defense skill to use a sub-par heal that isn't going to prevent anything? Strange logic, if you ask me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

- DS has 0 activation time - DD has 0.25 - I think DS is actually faster
- DD fires a 'projectile' therefore, it is still affected by blindness.

Actually, DS almost always will activate slower than DD. It doesn't immediately hit. It uses the skill the next time you would attack. So, the cast time could be as long as 1.33 seconds (the animation time of a dagger attack). And projectile spells cannot miss, though someone very skilled might be able to dodge it by strafing left and right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

Basically, IMHO, the recharge on critical hit thing seems to be better in theory than in practice. In practice, there is too often too much time between critical hits. Factors that affect this are:
- the number of hits that aren't critical. Without some other critical hit inducing skill, only 13% of my hits would be criticals.
- the number of attacks that are blocked, or fail to land for whatever reason.
- the time it takes to hit the next enemy.
- the time it takes to hit the next mob.

So the past few months I've been using CA "in practice" have just been figments of my imagination or something? Also, your critical hit chance is actually closer to 35%. Dagger Mastery also raises your crit chance, check GW Wiki and you'll see (it actually raises it more that the Critical Strikes line itself). And if you're still having problems, put in Critical Strike/Eye. And if it takes you 10+ seconds to get from one foe to another, then you're build is obviously bugged. Also, most mobs last longer than 30 seconds, which means CA should be recharged for the next mob.

[skill]Golden Phoenix Strike[/skill][skill]Death Blossom[/skill][skill]Moebius Strike[/skill][skill]Critical Strike[/skill][skill]Critical Eye[/skill][skill]Critical Agility[/skill][skill]Way of Perfection[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

Great survivability, insane DPS, and I might have CA drop before it recharges once or twice on a map, if I'm unlucky and there's a lot of blocks. I've heard that in EotN there are a lot of blocks. I would suggest dropping GPStrike and Res Sig for [skill]Golden Fox Strike[/skill] and [skill]Wild Strike[/skill] if you're having troubles. If you don't wanna use it, fine, go ahead. But just so you know, this build and all of its variants are pretty much the most effective PvE assassin build in high-end PvE. [skill]Assassin's Promise[/skill] builds may be better in lower-end PvE, but then again, low-end PvE isn't saying much...

Epic Monkey Battle · Oct 23, 2007, 05:26 AM // 05:26

I have never had a problem keeping CA up. I run 13 (12 +1) in critical strikes, 13 (11 + 1 + 1) dagger or 13 crit 14 dagger (depending on the build) and left overs into shadow (I think 9 [8+1]). If you really find you have trouble keeping up CA or CD you can always go A/W and bring [skill]Wild Blow[/skill] or fit [skill]Critical Strike[/skill] into your chain, as it gives you decent damage and decent energy management. And as for a self heal. If you must use one, I would go with [skill]Shadow Refuge[/skill] for PvE.

In PvE i generally find if you pay attention you what you are doing you dont need a whole lot of defence, you just have to play smart. For example, don't overextend and your monks can prot/heal you.

Bobby2 · Oct 23, 2007, 08:00 AM // 08:00

After much initial sputtering my PvE Sin is now a proud /D for Mystic Regen. As for the refreshments...
[skill]Critical Strike[/skill]
AAAAAH! The CERTAINTY!

There's an easy solution to your attack being overly blocked - quit attacking the friggin' Rangers! DB means it's a safer bet to take the guy besides him anyway. If it's really really really a problem in a certain area you could always spec for Expose Defenses. Can't you find it in your toolbox?

moko · Oct 23, 2007, 11:52 AM // 11:52

Quote:

But, on the other hand:
- DD does not count as a lead attack. If your other lead attack is blocked, you can use DS instead.

your lead has 5 second recharge. if your lead is blocked, the interrupt from DS will most likely be blocked also.

Quote:

- DS has 0 activation time - DD has 0.25 - I think DS is actually faster

what?

Quote:

- DD fires a 'projectile' therefore, it is still affected by blindness.

i can make lightning orb miss with blinding flash too.

Quote:

- the target I would want to interrupt would be the one I am already in melee range of. I leave the 'other' targets to other party members.

so what if the rest of your party is henchies and doesn't know how to watch a certain target? in reality what you just said will always fail as long as you don't have a human ranger by your side -- in which case you wouldn't really need an interrupt anyways.

i'm not going to comment on more, you are ignoring various opinions of many players that have been playing assassins far longer and with a greater effect.

if you think Crit Agility and Crit Defenses are bad skills:

you are doing it wrong.

Quaker · Oct 23, 2007, 01:33 PM // 13:33

I've come to the conclusion that it's best just to ignore you people.

BlackSephir · Oct 23, 2007, 01:52 PM // 13:52

Ah, ignorance is bliss, isn't it?

Sqube · Oct 23, 2007, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Coloneh: Complaining that someone is ignorant, and then doing nothing to dispel that ignorance, impresses no one. If you can't be bothered to actually try to educate other people, then I think everyone would appreciate it if you just didn't bother to post.

Quaker: It's one thing to ignore people that are flaming you. It's quite another to ignore people who are trying to help you understand their point of view. Your willful ignorance impresses no one.

Quaker · Oct 24, 2007, 12:52 AM // 00:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sqube

It's one thing to ignore people that are flaming you. It's quite another to ignore people who are trying to help you understand their point of view. Your willful ignorance impresses no one.

You're making the same mistake as BlackSephir - ignoring is not the same as ignorance.

I'm not "ignorant", nor am I new to the game, nor do I need to "l2p", nor am I interested in impressing anyone. And, I wouldn't ignore the people who may make an actual contribution.

The problem is that many of the people who regularly habituate this forum come across as nerdy little "leet" geeks who like to impress people with their leetness by trying to crap on other people. And, or course, the herd mentality comes into play here too - they say it's leet, so I must use it to be "leet". Yada, yada, yada.

Thus the number of reponses that simply say something like "OMG you don't use Uber Skill!" "You must be hopeless" & "l2p" (my personal favourite lol'r)

I'm not saying everyone here is like that, of course, although even some of those who are trying to be helpful are still locked into the "herd" mentality. No, it's not everyone, but way too many! They tend to degrade the whole purpose and feel of the forum.
Take a look at almost any thread, in the entire builds forum, and you'll see that most of those that are posted by someone "new" to the forum and/or with non-standard builds, are treated the same way.

And yet many of these posters, who claim to be so knowledgable, aren't really. (My favorite was the guy (not in this thread) who was arguing about the merits of using a Zealous weapon - one of his arguments was that it "stole" energy from the target.)
They also, as teen-agers (in particular) will, always talk in black&white - something either "sux" or it's the "best". Take this quote from Makone above:

if you think Crit Agility and Crit Defenses are bad skills: you are doing it wrong.

Did anyone in here say they were "bad" skills. Not me. I said I didn't think they were as good they were cracked up to be and I didn't want to use them, mostly because they didn't seem to work in my build. That doesn't make them bad, and that doesn't mean I said they were.

The truth of the matter is that NO skills are super-duper in actual play (not theory). The difference between a "good" skill and a "great" skill is only very minor, especially when you take the build as a whole and the party as an even bigger whole.
The truth also is that the differences in weapons types, sundering, vampiric, zealous, elemental, etc., are also very small in actual game play.
For both skills and weapons, the in-game differences are too small to make any particular type "leet" and the rest "noob".
But that's mostly the type of leet BS you get from these dickwads.
So rather than start a flame war (oops) it's best just to ignore them.

Oh, also, check out my OP. I edited to point out that I wasn't asking for any "help" or "suggestions". Since I wasn't, I'm not obligated to listen to them.

Mickey · Oct 24, 2007, 03:06 AM // 03:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

You're making the same mistake as BlackSephir - ignoring is not the same as ignorance.

I'm not "ignorant", nor am I new to the game, nor do I need to "l2p", nor am I interested in impressing anyone. And, I wouldn't ignore the people who may make an actual contribution.

The problem is that many of the people who regularly habituate this forum come across as nerdy little "leet" geeks who like to impress people with their leetness by trying to crap on other people. And, or course, the herd mentality comes into play here too - they say it's leet, so I must use it to be "leet". Yada, yada, yada.

Thus the number of reponses that simply say something like "OMG you don't use Uber Skill!" "You must be hopeless" & "l2p" (my personal favourite lol'r)

I'm not saying everyone here is like that, of course, although even some of those who are trying to be helpful are still locked into the "herd" mentality. No, it's not everyone, but way too many! They tend to degrade the whole purpose and feel of the forum.
Take a look at almost any thread, in the entire builds forum, and you'll see that most of those that are posted by someone "new" to the forum and/or with non-standard builds, are treated the same way.

And yet many of these posters, who claim to be so knowledgable, aren't really. (My favorite was the guy (not in this thread) who was arguing about the merits of using a Zealous weapon - one of his arguments was that it "stole" energy from the target.)
They also, as teen-agers (in particular) will, always talk in black&white - something either "sux" or it's the "best". Take this quote from Makone above:

if you think Crit Agility and Crit Defenses are bad skills: you are doing it wrong.

Did anyone in here say they were "bad" skills. Not me. I said I didn't think they were as good they were cracked up to be and I didn't want to use them, mostly because they didn't seem to work in my build. That doesn't make them bad, and that doesn't mean I said they were.

The truth of the matter is that NO skills are super-duper in actual play (not theory). The difference between a "good" skill and a "great" skill is only very minor, especially when you take the build as a whole and the party as an even bigger whole.
The truth also is that the differences in weapons types, sundering, vampiric, zealous, elemental, etc., are also very small in actual game play.
For both skills and weapons, the in-game differences are too small to make any particular type "leet" and the rest "noob".
But that's mostly the type of leet BS you get from these dickwads.
So rather than start a flame war (oops) it's best just to ignore them.

Oh, also, check out my OP. I edited to point out that I wasn't asking for any "help" or "suggestions". Since I wasn't, I'm not obligated to listen to them.

Which is exactly why we are obligated to warn fellow players not to use it.

natural sugar · Oct 24, 2007, 05:02 AM // 05:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

You're making the same mistake as BlackSephir - ignoring is not the same as ignorance.

I'm not "ignorant", nor am I new to the game, nor do I need to "l2p", nor am I interested in impressing anyone. And, I wouldn't ignore the people who may make an actual contribution.

The problem is that many of the people who regularly habituate this forum come across as nerdy little "leet" geeks who like to impress people with their leetness by trying to crap on other people. And, or course, the herd mentality comes into play here too - they say it's leet, so I must use it to be "leet". Yada, yada, yada.

Thus the number of reponses that simply say something like "OMG you don't use Uber Skill!" "You must be hopeless" & "l2p" (my personal favourite lol'r)

I'm not saying everyone here is like that, of course, although even some of those who are trying to be helpful are still locked into the "herd" mentality. No, it's not everyone, but way too many! They tend to degrade the whole purpose and feel of the forum.
Take a look at almost any thread, in the entire builds forum, and you'll see that most of those that are posted by someone "new" to the forum and/or with non-standard builds, are treated the same way.

And yet many of these posters, who claim to be so knowledgable, aren't really. (My favorite was the guy (not in this thread) who was arguing about the merits of using a Zealous weapon - one of his arguments was that it "stole" energy from the target.)
They also, as teen-agers (in particular) will, always talk in black&white - something either "sux" or it's the "best". Take this quote from Makone above:

if you think Crit Agility and Crit Defenses are bad skills: you are doing it wrong.

Did anyone in here say they were "bad" skills. Not me. I said I didn't think they were as good they were cracked up to be and I didn't want to use them, mostly because they didn't seem to work in my build. That doesn't make them bad, and that doesn't mean I said they were.

The truth of the matter is that NO skills are super-duper in actual play (not theory). The difference between a "good" skill and a "great" skill is only very minor, especially when you take the build as a whole and the party as an even bigger whole.
The truth also is that the differences in weapons types, sundering, vampiric, zealous, elemental, etc., are also very small in actual game play.
For both skills and weapons, the in-game differences are too small to make any particular type "leet" and the rest "noob".
But that's mostly the type of leet BS you get from these dickwads.
So rather than start a flame war (oops) it's best just to ignore them.

Oh, also, check out my OP. I edited to point out that I wasn't asking for any "help" or "suggestions". Since I wasn't, I'm not obligated to listen to them.

"Non-standard" builds should not be immediately praised just because they are, in fact, non standard. If your build sucks, it sucks, and the sooner you realize that, the better off you will be. Plenty of people posted logical arguments as to what skills would be better on your bar, but you've ignored that advice on the basis of, what, a five minute test in one explorable area? And sorry to say, if you cannot truly see the difference with IAS like CA, you really ARE doing something wrong.

Jaigoda · Oct 24, 2007, 05:08 AM // 05:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

You're making the same mistake as BlackSephir - ignoring is not the same as ignorance.

"Ignorance: The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed"
-Dictionary.com

You are choosing to be unaware of others' information, which is only to try to make you better with the Assassin class, and to help you have more fun. Of course, some people try to degrade you while they're at it, but that's life. Chances are, if someone's flaming you, they're just trying to get their point across (though I know they could probably do it better). Please, we're trying to help you by showing you how much better you can be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

And yet many of these posters, who claim to be so knowledgable, aren't really. (My favorite was the guy (not in this thread) who was arguing about the merits of using a Zealous weapon - one of his arguments was that it "stole" energy from the target.)

There will always be the uneducated (or ignorant) person why thinks he's so knowledgable; I should know, as I was very well once one of them. But you shouldn't judge all of us because one person in another thread didn't understand the game mechanics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

The truth of the matter is that NO skills are super-duper in actual play (not theory). The difference between a "good" skill and a "great" skill is only very minor, especially when you take the build as a whole and the party as an even bigger whole.

I beg to differ; Moebius Strike is even better in action than on paper. Critical Agility, as well (if you actually bring something like Critical Strike/Eye). In fact, Critical Eye is actually an awesome energy-management skill, while it looks mediocre on paper. Yes, some skills look good on paper but don't live up to their name (Healing Breeze, for example, and Assassin's Promise to a lesser extent), but some skills actually are "super-duper," even in the (Margonite filled) field.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

The truth also is that the differences in weapons types, sundering, vampiric, zealous, elemental, etc., are also very small in actual game play.
For both skills and weapons, the in-game differences are too small to make any particular type "leet" and the rest "noob".
But that's mostly the type of leet BS you get from these dickwads.
So rather than start a flame war (oops) it's best just to ignore them.

While sundering, vampiric, and elemental mods aren't as useful, you should never EVER underestimate zealous daggers on an assassin. They are to a 'sin as Attunements are to ele's (and about the same amount of e-management, possibly more)

Pericles · Oct 24, 2007, 12:08 PM // 12:08

I want everyone to stop helping/giving advice to Quaker, he's an ignorant little know-it-all who tries to manipulate the english language so that in the end he's always right. There's no point of arguing with him because he simply makes incorrect statements and instead of admitting his mistakes he tries to still, (even though everyone thinks he's wrong), prove his being right. He does this because he's childish and has no honor, so to 'get back at Quaker' I'll will lower myself to his level and prove that I'm right:

I'm right, you're wrong I'm right, you're wrong I'm right, you're wrong I'm right, you're wrong I'm right, you're wrong I'm right, you're wrong I'm right, you're wrong I'm right, you're wrong I'm right, you're wrong I'm right, you're wrong I'm right, you're wrong I'm right, you're wrong I'm right, you're wrong

HAHA!!!, NOW I WONT THIS ARGUMENT BECAUSE IT SAYS SO IN THE ABOVE TEXT!!!

Wyat Hawke · Oct 24, 2007, 01:23 PM // 13:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

I've come to the conclusion that it's best just to ignore you people.

Wow... Coloneh, I would like to apologize...