Curse

DokkyDok · Sep 08, 2007, 07:16 PM // 19:16

A profession isn't bad, the person playing it can be though...I blame the show "Naruto" and the "melee = tank" mindset for why most assassin players tend not to know what they're doing...

Dodo The Extinct · Sep 09, 2007, 01:19 AM // 01:19

Yea, Naruto (

) definately got the Whammo crowd of 13 year-olds to start Assassins. It is so tragic.

But anyways, I`d say Ritualists are generally worse than Assassins. The class could have a little more design to it. I`m not saying they are not powerful (They are), but it seems like some of their skill lines lack a clear direction (imo)

moriz · Sep 09, 2007, 02:42 AM // 02:42

this is the final word on this topic (and other similar ones):

"the worst profession in the game is the profession currently played by the worst player."

Teleport · Sep 09, 2007, 04:16 AM // 04:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allehelgens

Topic. Apparently everyone that plays a sin enjoys running it and making monks mad. How many people really know how to play this class?

LOL! It's probably the best class in the game imo. I love my Sin, solo ele sword farming is fun too. In fact, I can solo many places. Not only for PvE is a Sin great, but my build for PvP is fantastic as well.
Definitely not worse, but more close to the best :|.

Kiba of hidden leaf · Sep 09, 2007, 04:19 AM // 04:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by DokkyDok

\I blame the show "Naruto" and the "melee = tank" mindset for why most assassin players tend not to know what they're doing...

Have you anything to back that up? No. Although most people who are fond of Naruto are young which can usually be unexperienced. Another thing is that its not the show itself that is detrimental its the character Naruto. He always rushes in first. Shikamaru, on the other hand, plans out the whole battle before = good assassin. This is one of the things that gets on my nerves.

Teleport · Sep 09, 2007, 04:20 AM // 04:20

Better example of who plans everything out before a battle: Itachi.

fireflyry · Sep 09, 2007, 04:40 AM // 04:40

Jesus.

Don't tell me this is going to become a Naruto debate.

haggus71 · Sep 09, 2007, 01:23 PM // 13:23

-Diverts away from Shonen Jump fanbois-

Snow Bunny, one way not to get a bad sin is to ask for a build ping. If they ping Flashing Blades, run. Run fast. If they ping a build with no self heal, bye-bye. You wouldn't take a warrior that has a build that doesn't have the basics(self-heal, adren-recharge/IAS, WY), so why take a sin without crit skills, a self-heal(Feigned, Mystic Regen), or a get-out-of-Dodge skill(dash, -sigh- shadow step if you have to)? Learn to recognize a good sin like you would a monk, warrior, or ele, and you will be surprised at how much they help out.

fireflyry · Sep 09, 2007, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by haggus71

If they ping a build with no self heal, bye-bye.

I disagree with that.

I PvE with mainly guildies and friends but even when I PuG I often don't take a self-heal.That is obviously team and mission specific but to be blunt our self-heals are crap and often not needed at all.

Not saying I don't ever use them or secondary class self-heals but at times it's far better to give a Sin room for more DPS and let a monk/rit deal with the healing side of things.

Sin=DPS

Monk/Rit=Heal

I leave out self-heal and damage mitigation in at least 50% of my PvE Sin game time, rarely die, and have played on my Monk with many a good Sin who have had similar builds.It's a pity using such builds, because theres a dedicated healer or two on board, only to be told "No self-heal....cya" has become a trend.A Sin with full use of his DPS and good healers to back him up is pretty impressive.

Some would argue it's about making life easier on the healers, which is sometimes required, but more often imo thats just a sign of them being bad or lazy at their class.Do people kick monks for not bringing a damage dealing skill?

It's a team game and I disagree with the philosophy of every player, regardless of class, having to have a self-heal in their build by default as it's far from the most efficient way to play the game.

Issac · Sep 09, 2007, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Most people that start sin give up after a while, guess the "Must follow" part was to hard for them lol. Theirs aren't many sins in the game, you mostly se quite a few in shing jea, where the sins start lol. Most people find sins hard to play, thats what I've been hearing.

Snow Bunny · Sep 09, 2007, 10:51 PM // 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiba of hidden leaf

Have you anything to back that up? No. Although most people who are fond of Naruto are young which can usually be unexperienced. Another thing is that its not the show itself that is detrimental its the character Naruto. He always rushes in first. Shikamaru, on the other hand, plans out the whole battle before = good assassin. This is one of the things that gets on my nerves.

I have lots of screenies. Of dumbass kids shadow-stepping into massive aggro. Naruto plays a big part in this :P

Issac · Sep 09, 2007, 11:00 PM // 23:00

I agree, shadow step doesn't help in pve at all. But in pvp, depending on the situation its not to bad.

Bobby2 · Sep 10, 2007, 02:30 AM // 02:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

It's a team game and I disagree with the philosophy of every player, regardless of class, having to have a self-heal in their build by default as it's far from the most efficient way to play the game.

And I agree with you on this. But despite being a team game you're still dealing with people. People who look out for themselves first, because communication isn't that great. I'm not (yet?) the kinda guy who plays with a headset in direct audio contact with his team members and scream AAH HEAL ME, all I can do now is ping My Health is 13 of 500-something and die anyway, because no-one is paying attention to the text box.

So for now, I will take a self-heal in every build. Not often a monk around anyway, let alone a good one (but PUG is my usual way of clearing missions). Being a Sin means taking (calculated) risks. Even when I'm on my own, I'd like to have a chance at making it through if the **** hits the fan.

xaleo21 · Sep 10, 2007, 05:01 AM // 05:01

But charging in can be okay if you're bonded! Or get you Tahl to eLife Sheath you first... or eShadow Form yourself... or Death's Charge > Death's Retreat...
I Death Blossom > Moebius so if some tardo meleer annoys me while I'm shanking a caster he gets a petal of Death Blossom. Mua... ha... ha...... haha... done.

Coloneh · Sep 10, 2007, 06:23 AM // 06:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

It's a team game and I disagree with the philosophy of every player, regardless of class, having to have a self-heal in their build by default as it's far from the most efficient way to play the game.

you have obviously never seriously played a monk, and until you do you have no right at all to say anything like this. Im really tired of ignorant players refusing to take a self-heal. monks do not exist to heal every scrap of damage you take, monks are around to remove, conditions, hexes and heal any damage a self heal cant. monks weren't meant to have to work 7 times as hard as every other profession, and if people played the way the game was intended they wouldn't have to.

Shuuda · Sep 10, 2007, 08:06 AM // 08:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

you have obviously never seriously played a monk, and until you do you have no right at all to say anything like this. Im really tired of ignorant players refusing to take a self-heal. monks do not exist to heal every scrap of damage you take, monks are around to remove, conditions, hexes and heal any damage a self heal cant. monks weren't meant to have to work 7 times as hard as every other profession, and if people played the way the game was intended they wouldn't have to.

QFT, the greatest truth.

Quote:

Snow Bunny, one way not to get a bad sin is to ask for a build ping. If they ping Flashing Blades, run. Run fast. If they ping a build with no self heal, bye-bye. You wouldn't take a warrior that has a build that doesn't have the basics(self-heal, adren-recharge/IAS, WY), so why take a sin without crit skills, a self-heal(Feigned, Mystic Regen), or a get-out-of-Dodge skill(dash, -sigh- shadow step if you have to)? Learn to recognize a good sin like you would a monk, warrior, or ele, and you will be surprised at how much they help out.

What's so bad about Flashing blades in PvE? It's one of the assassin elites worth using in PvE, second to Moebius strike.

And about Naruto, if I wanted anime with a ninja in it, I'd just watch Flame of Recca (His Ninja outfit is cooler)

SotiCoto · Sep 10, 2007, 09:49 AM // 09:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

And about Naruto, if I wanted anime with a ninja in it, I'd just watch Flame of Recca (His Ninja outfit is cooler)

Hattori Hanzo, Samurai Shodown style, rapes all other ninjas hands down.

GW nub-sins play too much like Galford (i.e. A/R "GO POPPY!") and not enough like Hanzo.

haggus71 · Sep 10, 2007, 10:31 AM // 10:31

I mentioned Flashing Blades because, for every person with it that knows how to play a sin, there are a hundred that get it and say, "Look at me! Ima tank =D". It's not the elite that's bad. Unfortunately, it's just been a good indicator of fail. Moebius Strike can be bad, as well, but because of its location, by the time a sin gets there, they tend to know what they're doing.

fireflyry · Sep 10, 2007, 01:53 PM // 13:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

you have obviously never seriously played a monk, and until you do you have no right at all to say anything like this. Im really tired of ignorant players refusing to take a self-heal. monks do not exist to heal every scrap of damage you take, monks are around to remove, conditions, hexes and heal any damage a self heal cant. monks weren't meant to have to work 7 times as hard as every other profession, and if people played the way the game was intended they wouldn't have to.

It's far from that black and white sorry and I have every right to say or express my opinion.

Who are you to tell me not to.

Firstly I said it was situational, secondly I have two level 20 monks which I have used for quite a few hundred hours each and regardless I have friends and Guildies who have only EVER played the monk class since beta and agree with what I say and play in exactly the fashion I described.

I trust their experience and opinion over yours sorry.I've seen what it can do to a team and your the one coming across as ignorant.

It's a monks role to heal, remove conditions, etc, etc and as I stated previously in condition heavy or large spike areas I agree with the need for self-heals or mitigation but to blindly always take it in a build every single time because it's an unspoken rule is ridiculous and inefficient.

For example on a melee heavy zone with good monk back-up I often drop a self-heal for Blinding Powder which results in the frontline taking far less damage.When used in a Promise build it's spammable.

Yes...monks hate that...*rolls eyes*

Thing is on a well structured team with good players a self-heal is often not needed.Fact.

As stated it's dependant on many different variables and while I'm open to different ways of playing you seem to struggle with this concept and seem to think we should all play exactly how you do.

I'm far from that close-minded as I've seen the effectiveness of a Sin without self-heals thanks to a great monk.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Issac

I agree, shadow step doesn't help in pve at all. But in pvp, depending on the situation its not to bad.

Assassin's Promise builds with Death's Charge, Shadow Fang or Dark Prison disagree with you.

Azrayel · Sep 10, 2007, 02:47 PM // 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

It's far from that black and white sorry and I have every right to say or express my opinion.

Who are you to tell me not to.

Firstly I said it was situational, secondly I have two level 20 monks which I have used for quite a few hundred hours each and regardless I have friends and Guildies who have only EVER played the monk class since beta and agree with what I say and play in exactly the fashion I described.

I trust their experience and opinion over yours sorry.I've seen what it can do to a team and your the one coming across as ignorant.

It's a monks role to heal, remove conditions, etc, etc and as I stated previously in condition heavy or large spike areas I agree with the need for self-heals or mitigation but to blindly always take it in a build every single time because it's an unspoken rule is ridiculous and inefficient.

For example on a melee heavy zone with good monk back-up I often drop a self-heal for Blinding Powder which results in the frontline taking far less damage.When used in a Promise build it's spammable.

Yes...monks hate that...*rolls eyes*

Thing is on a well structured team with good players a self-heal is often not needed.Fact.

As stated it's dependant on many different variables and while I'm open to different ways of playing you seem to struggle with this concept and seem to think we should all play exactly how you do.

I'm far from that close-minded as I've seen the effectiveness of a Sin without self-heals thanks to a great monk.

Assassin's Promise builds with Death's Charge, Shadow Fang or Dark Prison disagree with you.

Not to pick apart how you use builds, but I would rather put a self heal in the place of any shadow step for PvE. Not only does it help the monk but it helps the group as well, since they can benefit from the monk healing as well. If you play mostly with guildies and they are o.k with no self heal then I see no problem with it.

I take great pride in playing my sin. Therefore I hate it when I see her face down waiting for someone to rez her. Even if I'm playing with my guild ,who are very good players, I don't leave it up to the monk to heal me just bcause I want to cause more damage. As far as I'm concerned I am responsible for when I need a heal and if the monk does it for me then thats just a plus.