Curse

Shuuda · Nov 28, 2007, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Someone better than you

Some more lame ideas here.

Return - All adjacent foe a crippled for x - xx seconds, and you move 33% faster for x- xx seconds.

Death's Charge - You move 33% faster for x - xx seconds, when this stance ends you gain xx - xxx health. Reduce recharge to 15 - 20

Beguiling Haze - you move 33% faster for x - xx seconds, the next foe you hit is dazed for x - xx seconds. Change cost to 5, or 10 if 5 is over powered.

Shadow Prison - you move 33% faster for x - xx seconds, the next foe you hit is crippled for x - xx seconds. Change cost to 5 and recharge to 15 - 20.

Dark Prison - You move 15% faster for x - xx seconds, if you hit a moving foe, they are crippled for x - x seconds. Reduce cost to 5 and recharge to 20

Death's retreat - You move 40% faster for x - x seconds, when this stance ends you gain xx - xx health and an extra xx - xx health for every ally in the area (maxium of xx) ( or replace the extra health gain with a condition for every ally in area max of 1 - 3)

Scorpion Wire - You move 10% faster for x - x seconds, if the next foe you hit is moving, they are knocked down. (50% chance to fail if 4 or less in deadly arts) reduce recharge to 15 - 20.

Shadow Meld - While you maintain this enchantment you move 0 - 33% faster, but you will be unable to use stances. When this enchament ends, you lose all enchaments and 1 condition for each lost. Move to Shadow arts or critical strikes.

Aura of Displacement - While you maintain this enchantment you move 0 - 33% faster, but you are unable to use stances. If you are targeting an ally when this ends, you shadow step to his position and lose all enchantments and stance (range of half radar) reduce cost to 5. Move to Shadow or Critical.
(Rusbish I know, but I'm stumpped on how to change that)

Shadow Fang - for x - x seconds you move 25% faster, the next foe to hit will suffer deep wound for x - xx seconds if you critical them. reduce recharge to 15.

Shadow Walk - For x - xx seconds you move 40% faster, but you cannot use or be the target of allied spells or enchantments. Move to shadow arts. reduce recharge to 25.

Spirit Walk - For x - xx seconds you move 33% fasters and gain x - xx health for each second moving if there are allied spirits in the area.

Vipers Defence - All adjacent Foes are poisoned for x - xx seconds, and you move 33% faster for x - xx seconds.

Swap - If target Foe is moving faster than normal, they lose xx - xx health and you move 25% faster for x - xx seconds. Move to deadly arts. Increase recharge to 15.

Recall - If you are targeting an ally you move 40 - 50% faster, if target ally has less health than you when this stance ends, you lose 20 - 10 energy and skill are disabled for 10 - 7 seconds. Move to critical or shadow.

Note that all stance that have an effect upon hitting a foe will end when you hit them.

Yay for my crappy idea. Atleast it will remove broken stepping from the game, for the most part. >_>

I know I posted this in the other thread, but I felt like showing it here. I know it looks dramatic and needs loads of work, but imba running is more balanced than imba stepping. And though they look like nerfs at first, the changes have there pros and compensations.

ensoriki · Nov 28, 2007, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniffy

I did actually see a Mirror stance sin. Once.

Exactly once.

I've also seen a T-rex in canada once.

It was dead.

Vipers defense is the inferior version of heart of shadow.

Also Vipers defense and Heart of shadow need no Shadow stepping nerf.
Consider the skills that could be fine with the changes and skills that have no business becoming an IMS at all.

my *huggles* Shadow meld... hoS and Vipers defence lols.

Heart of shadow is my friend....it allows me to go into Fort aspen wood as Arcane echo shadow form and as im dying cast it and HoS. HoS shadow stepping you is actually more of a nuisance then anything. I use it for being the assassin version of RoF.

I also don't like the vipers idea >.> If sin's are so mobile >.> Why can a warrior still catch em easily =P

The swap things not bad >.> problem is....doesn't fit with the name... at all.
Could see play with something like

Shameful Fear+ swap and I dunno Hidden caltrops =P against runners and crap lulz.

If the assassin had an innate +5/10% (stacks with skills) speed buff on there armor, your idea would work better.

Shuuda · Nov 28, 2007, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Vipers and Heart (Yes I forgot heart of shadow, that can be same a return and vipers but with the health part) are both medicre because of the small uncontrollable element of it. Heart of Shadow could make a good kiting skill with a speed boost me thinks.

ensoriki · Nov 29, 2007, 12:46 AM // 00:46

Hos and Viper could just be left alone by themselves >.>

and my Shadow meld

LaserLight · Nov 29, 2007, 12:59 AM // 00:59

No no no, a thousand times no!

Alright, this is getting bloody ridiculous. I'm sorry, but removing both the Assassin's ability to do damage and completely removing shadow step capability from the game in order to give us a bunch of garbage run stances? Methinks you're just annoyed that Assassins can outmaneuver you. But, consider this: Assassins Shadow Step because they cannot, for the most part, survive a conventional extension into the enemy's lines to deliver their strike, given their essentially caster-level armor. This is contrary to a Warrior, whose innate armor, shield, and ugly little shout allow him to charge through an erupting volcano without ill effect if that's what it takes to smack the bad guy.

Assassins are supposed to be superior at positional control and the rapid, unexpected strike. This was their stated purpose as given to us by ArenaNet themselves. This was the justification for their abilities, and the trade-off for their miserable AL. That ability to change their location with lightning speed is the real main benefit of an Assassin. After all, would an Assassin's instagib combo be even half so feared if it didn't come after a teleport? No amount of IMS stances would save that particular Assassin's spike from being pre-protted into oblivion, or the Assassin himself from being demolished before he can strike.

Seriously people...this is getting truly ridiculous. You all want dagger combos limited to lead-off-dual strings and L/O/D strings alone, AFTER GIMPING DUAL ATTACKS, Shadow Stepping permanently removed from the game, direct-damage abilities such as Dancing Daggers smashed into eternal uselessness, and all you're willing to offer us in return is a small bit of increased utility?

Thanks, but no thanks. At that point I may as well delete my Assassin entirely, since her best possible output would amount to the ability of an average-played, badly-constructed Mesmer. And let's face it - you all know it. Which is why you want it to happen - so that you never have to see another "stupid imba sin" again.

Hm hm...maybe I never want to see something with over a hundred and forty AL after the omnipresent Watch Yourself, shield, and innate armor mods laughing off the concentrated efforts of five characters' damage output as it doles out enough damage to drop those five characters ever again myself, but ye know? I'm not calling for ArenaNet to remove Warriors from the game, or utterly demolish them as a usable class.

Law of equivalent exchange, people. Bad run stances and crappy secondary effects for out-chain off-hands are no dice for a lack of damage-dealing capability and the removal of Shadow Step capability. Figure out something that is worth the trade before you talk about destroying this class again, please.

MercenaryK · Nov 29, 2007, 01:13 AM // 01:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaserLight

No no no, a thousand times no!

Alright, this is getting bloody ridiculous. I'm sorry, but removing both the Assassin's ability to do damage and completely removing shadow step capability from the game in order to give us a bunch of garbage run stances? Methinks you're just annoyed that Assassins can outmaneuver you. But, consider this: Assassins Shadow Step because they cannot, for the most part, survive a conventional extension into the enemy's lines to deliver their strike, given their essentially caster-level armor. This is contrary to a Warrior, whose innate armor, shield, and ugly little shout allow him to charge through an erupting volcano without ill effect if that's what it takes to smack the bad guy.

Assassins are supposed to be superior at positional control and the rapid, unexpected strike. This was their stated purpose as given to us by ArenaNet themselves. This was the justification for their abilities, and the trade-off for their miserable AL. That ability to change their location with lightning speed is the real main benefit of an Assassin. After all, would an Assassin's instagib combo be even half so feared if it didn't come after a teleport? No amount of IMS stances would save that particular Assassin's spike from being pre-protted into oblivion, or the Assassin himself from being demolished before he can strike.

Seriously people...this is getting truly ridiculous. You all want dagger combos limited to lead-off-dual strings and L/O/D strings alone, AFTER GIMPING DUAL ATTACKS, Shadow Stepping permanently removed from the game, direct-damage abilities such as Dancing Daggers smashed into eternal uselessness, and all you're willing to offer us in return is a small bit of increased utility?

Thanks, but no thanks. At that point I may as well delete my Assassin entirely, since her best possible output would amount to the ability of an average-played, badly-constructed Mesmer. And let's face it - you all know it. Which is why you want it to happen - so that you never have to see another "stupid imba sin" again.

Hm hm...maybe I never want to see something with over a hundred and forty AL after the omnipresent Watch Yourself, shield, and innate armor mods laughing off the concentrated efforts of five characters' damage output as it doles out enough damage to drop those five characters ever again myself, but ye know? I'm not calling for ArenaNet to remove Warriors from the game, or utterly demolish them as a usable class.

Law of equivalent exchange, people. Bad run stances and crappy secondary effects for out-chain off-hands are no dice for a lack of damage-dealing capability and the removal of Shadow Step capability. Figure out something that is worth the trade before you talk about destroying this class again, please.

QFT

If anything I'd love to see more variety in dagger chains between O-D-O-D and L-O-D

Sniffy · Nov 29, 2007, 01:24 AM // 01:24

[QUOTE=ensoriki]Exactly once.

I've also seen a T-rex in canada once.

It was dead.

I know. That skill is virtually completely useless. The rest of my post is cleverly/accidentally hidden inside your quote in my previous reply...

ensoriki · Nov 29, 2007, 01:45 AM // 01:45

Laserlight you have rejuvenated my passion!!

=P

New ideas!

L-O-D-O should be alive and well!

L-O-D-O-D should be alive too =P

O-D-O-D can be weakened my gimping the first off-hand!

GPS: changed to
5 energy, 6 recharge!
Off-Hand Attack. If you are not under the effects of an Enchantment, this skill misses. If it hits, Golden Phoenix Strike deals +10...18...26 damage.
If this follows a lead attack you deal burning for 1..3...5 seconds!

Woo hoo!!! =P

Turdah, Damage nerf so O-D-O-D isn't as strong...still not bad though GPS was only used in moebius builds as a starter.
But now it can Burninate! Sin's can now burn your ass...O-D-O-D haters have 1 less skill to complain about!

jagged strike
Lead Attack. If Jagged Strike hits, your target suffers from Bleeding for 5...17...20 seconds. If this hits a foe suffering deep wound you deal +10...22...25 damage.
If this follows a dual attack you do an additional +25 damage!

Sweet Jagged is cool now!
Horns of the ox. 8 recharge!
Dual Attack. Must follow an off-hand attack. If it hits, Horns of the Ox strikes for +5...23...26 damage. If struck foe is not adjacent to any allies, that foe is knocked down. If this hits a weakened or cripple foe deal an extra +5 damage!

Temple strike:
If it hits a weakened foe do +5...10..15 damage!

Fox fangs 4 recharge
Off-Hand Attack. Must follow a lead attack. Fox Fangs cannot be blocked and strikes for +5...25...30 damage if it hits.If this attack fails to hit you deal 20...35...40 damage to all adjacent foes

Fox fangs can now compete with Wild strike now.

Desperate strike 3 recharge!
Lead Attack. If you have less than 50...74...85% Health, you Steal +15...51...60 damage. If you are above 85% hp you do +20 damage.

Desperate doesn't suck flat out now...Steals hp!...does unconditional +20 damage if your above 85% hp!

Repeating strike: Off-Hand Attack. Must follow an off-hand attack. If it hits, this attack strikes for +10...31...38 damage. If it misses, it takes an additional 15 seconds to recharge. For each condition on target foe you gain +1 energy!

Woo repeating can potentially cost free energy!}

Golden lotus strike: Renamed to golden Lotus BLOSSOM 8 recharge
Lead Attack. If it hits, this attack strikes for +5...17...20 damage and all adjacent foes take +5...17..20 damage. If you are under the effects of an Enchantment, you gain 5...11...12 Energy.

Rawr and you can get energy from each foe you hit
Massive Pve Energy boon! (what kinda noob is bundling up anyways in pvp)

>.> Who wouldn't like the build compression from these skills =P

MercenaryK · Nov 29, 2007, 02:16 AM // 02:16

I like the change of GLS to a GLB in a weakened form; just cause it gives an alternative to Death Blossom.

Repeating Strike ............ I'd say if you crit you gain +1 energy, not let it stack based on conditions.

Fox Fangs shouldn't have that 'if this skill misses ........ deal ......' because then it's too uber; it can't be blocked, and you're getting around the last counter, blind, by still causing damage.

I'd change the last part to some thing like "if you crit ...." or remove it's activation of 1/2(1/4, w/e) second, and make it cause cracked armor??

GFS causes deep wound if it hits, but no damage, and TF causes both bleeding & deep wound .... why not throw in cracked armor in to the assassin's arsenal? But make the duration not exceedingly high, typically 8...18 seconds?

Food for thought to work with...

ensoriki · Nov 29, 2007, 02:23 AM // 02:23

ah but fox line would be the only thing capable of by passing that hurdle.

also its armor damage not + damage.

Meaning a warrior will take about 20 damage from it or less.

Sins and dervishes and rangers like 28 damage =P rangers even less with elemental daggers.

Golden fang strike
Must follow a lead attack. If you are under the effects of an Enchantment, target foe suffers from a Deep Wound for 5...17 seconds. This skill has 40% armor penetration.

Boom head shot.
Damage is only nice vs 60 AL...good if it crits =P!

Iron Palm:
15 recharge. Make this skill duplicated and call the duplicate Steel Palm counts as a dual (hits once though)

Boom we have Palm builds.
Iron palm, Palm Strike, Steel Palm.

MercenaryK · Nov 29, 2007, 03:09 AM // 03:09

Armor penetration on daggers has low results due to low base damage. Really something high would be needed, like 40%, maybe, and 20% on daggers, which no right Assassin would use.

Since no other Assassin skill has armor penetration, you could just give it +damage, but ......... the armor penetration COULD make up for the lack of +damage...... not that I don't like the idea, that skill seems good.

A dual attack that only hits once is not a dual attack. Palm Builds just seem weird on an Assassin with daggers, despite yes there is Iron Palm, and Palm Strike.

Palm Strike is made to get around the use of a lead-attack, a touch skill, so you'd have to nerf it to make it follow a lead, thus it would totally need to be remade.

I'd leave the palm stuff alone ............ unless you're in to palm sex >.>

GFS isn't bad...... it's a start I suppose. It's better than before.

ensoriki · Nov 29, 2007, 03:19 AM // 03:19

Lulz

Sharpen daggers
Enchantment Spell. For 30 seconds, the next 2...10 attack skills cause Bleeding for 6...15 seconds. Your weapon now have 40% armor penetration.

Notice weapon and not daggers =P

I smell Crit Scythe in pvp with pvp'ers screaming Mommy make it stop.

No really change weapons to dagger >.>

Dodo The Extinct · Nov 29, 2007, 03:21 AM // 03:21

Sharpen Daggers seems fine to me. I like it the way it is. It is an easy way to fulfill the echant reqs, and gives bleeding.

John Panda · Nov 29, 2007, 03:23 AM // 03:23

i dont care what you do just dont touch my [skill]Moebius Strike[/skill] [skill]death blossom[/skill]

ensoriki · Nov 29, 2007, 03:24 AM // 03:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodo The Extinct

Overpowered much? Warriors and Dervishes would obliterate everything. 40% penetration is insane.

I KNOW

and it stacks with sundering

BWUAHAHAHAHAHAHH!!!

Read below >.> its really supposed to be daggers.

But could you freaking imagine...awesome sauce.

Crit Scythes/hammers with that crap man >.> And it stacks!

Get some monk to put some judges insight on you...get a sundering mod.... put up some shadowy burden on the target.

Have cracked armor on em.

Then watch the 180 damage per crit =P

Then add some deep wound!

YAy!!

Edit: John

New update.
Death blossom: After using DB your next skill misses

lulz.

Edit2: Maybe Sharpen is okay but.... could use more attack use..

I don't like 11 attacks in 30 seconds?

What if im...what if im using [card]Onslaught[/card]!! =P
I am so......loosing my mind

I rather it have a +5 damage increase when you hit a foe suffering from deep wound on top of the bleeding.

Ever cut open a cut? Hurts like hell.

John Panda · Nov 29, 2007, 03:24 AM // 03:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodo The Extinct

Overpowered much? Warriors and Dervishes would obliterate everything. 40% penetration is insane.

maybe make it critical and 20% thats an idea 0; but then barrage... that would be 20% penetration to 6 foes....

hmm 0;

LightningHell · Nov 29, 2007, 05:12 AM // 05:12

Maybe you know what I'm typing already, but for safety's sake.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaserLight

No no no, a thousand times no!

Alright, this is getting bloody ridiculous. I'm sorry, but removing both the Assassin's ability to do damage and completely removing shadow step capability from the game in order to give us a bunch of garbage run stances? Methinks you're just annoyed that Assassins can outmaneuver you. But, consider this: Assassins Shadow Step because they cannot, for the most part, survive a conventional extension into the enemy's lines to deliver their strike, given their essentially caster-level armor. This is contrary to a Warrior, whose innate armor, shield, and ugly little shout allow him to charge through an erupting volcano without ill effect if that's what it takes to smack the bad guy.

Please appreciate that the shadow step compared with the Assassin's insane ability to deal damage that can nearly instantaneously kill a character in PvP does not bode well for game balance. It needs to go anyway.

The role that the Assassin will perform is another issue entirely.

Quote:

Assassins are supposed to be superior at positional control and the rapid, unexpected strike. This was their stated purpose as given to us by ArenaNet themselves. This was the justification for their abilities, and the trade-off for their miserable AL. That ability to change their location with lightning speed is the real main benefit of an Assassin. After all, would an Assassin's instagib combo be even half so feared if it didn't come after a teleport? No amount of IMS stances would save that particular Assassin's spike from being pre-protted into oblivion, or the Assassin himself from being demolished before he can strike.

However, the Assassin doesn't really have any "positional control" as such. It just has an ability that makes it pretty much imbalanced. The "miserable AL" hardly matters when they don't really need to step into the frontline. Why it is so feared is exactly why it should be removed.

Again, my point of the post is that the Assassin needs a revamp if it wants to have a "balanced" role in PvP.

Quote:

Hm hm...maybe I never want to see something with over a hundred and forty AL after the omnipresent Watch Yourself, shield, and innate armor mods laughing off the concentrated efforts of five characters' damage output as it doles out enough damage to drop those five characters ever again myself, but ye know? I'm not calling for ArenaNet to remove Warriors from the game, or utterly demolish them as a usable class.

PvE viewpoint, I won't comment on this bit as it has no actual relevance to my post.

Quote:

Law of equivalent exchange, people. Bad run stances and crappy secondary effects for out-chain off-hands are no dice for a lack of damage-dealing capability and the removal of Shadow Step capability. Figure out something that is worth the trade before you talk about destroying this class again, please.

Okay.

So is the concept of mildly-damaging spikes (think: 1/2 to 3/5 of a character's health) with somewhat low energy cost and low recharge, along with high amounts of disruption and other utility "worth the trade", if designed correctly?

X Cytherea X · Nov 29, 2007, 07:34 AM // 07:34

Quote:

Law of equivalent exchange, people.

frickin genius. straight out of full metal alchemist! and appropriately used, too. listen to this man!

Shuuda · Nov 29, 2007, 08:10 AM // 08:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaserLight

No no no, a thousand times no!

Alright, this is getting bloody ridiculous. I'm sorry, but removing both the Assassin's ability to do damage and completely removing shadow step capability from the game in order to give us a bunch of garbage run stances? Methinks you're just annoyed that Assassins can outmaneuver you. But, consider this: Assassins Shadow Step because they cannot, for the most part, survive a conventional extension into the enemy's lines to deliver their strike, given their essentially caster-level armor. This is contrary to a Warrior, whose innate armor, shield, and ugly little shout allow him to charge through an erupting volcano without ill effect if that's what it takes to smack the bad guy.

Erm, WOW, two small things:
1) I play ranger lot, out outmaneuver me with single minded stiff teleporting, yar sure
2)You sound annoyed because my suggestion takes away your insta kill, which you use because you lack the skill to play warrior.

Assassins are supposed to be superior at positional control and the rapid, unexpected strike. This was their stated purpose as given to us by ArenaNet themselves. This was the justification for their abilities, and the trade-off for their miserable AL. That ability to change their location with lightning speed is the real main benefit of an Assassin. After all, would an Assassin's instagib combo be even half so feared if it didn't come after a teleport? No amount of IMS stances would save that particular Assassin's spike from being pre-protted into oblivion, or the Assassin himself from being demolished before he can strike.

3) Assassins are in no way unexpected, the opposite if anything, so predictable, they have failed to do there "Original job", thus, should be changed.
4) They don't control positioning, the remove it from the game.
5) Self survival requires a brain.

Thanks, but no thanks. At that point I may as well delete my Assassin entirely, since her best possible output would amount to the ability of an average-played, badly-constructed Mesmer. And let's face it - you all know it. Which is why you want it to happen - so that you never have to see another "stupid imba sin" again.

6)No, the output of your sin are imba spikes, which get kills you shouldn't be getting and fool you into thinking your better than you are at killing

Law of equivalent exchange, people. Bad run stances and crappy secondary effects for out-chain off-hands are no dice for a lack of damage-dealing capability and the removal of Shadow Step capability. Figure out something that is worth the trade before you talk about destroying this class again, please.

No, Im replacing single minded and single purpose skills that promote gimmicks, with good mobility. Face facts:

-1/2 of shadow steps are to bad to be viable.
- the other half are imbalanced and only get used in gimmicks and spikes

I'd go as far to say my suggestion is a buff to these skills, Scorpion Wire and heart of Shadow for example.

See the quote for my comments. I know my idea is far from good or needs lots of work, but I'd rather have some good critisms from people who are not blind assassin fanboyz.

X Cytherea X · Nov 29, 2007, 08:48 AM // 08:48

Quote:

Shadow Prison - you move 33% faster for x - xx seconds, the next foe you hit is crippled for x - xx seconds. Change cost to 5 and recharge to 15 - 20.

one crappy cripple every 20 seconds. it's not much better than pin down, and it's elite.

Quote:

Scorpion Wire - You move 10% faster for x - x seconds, if the next foe you hit is moving, they are knocked down. (50% chance to fail if 4 or less in deadly arts) reduce recharge to 15 - 20.

a lousy bull's charge clone

Quote:

Shadow Meld - While you maintain this enchantment you move 0 - 33% faster, but you will be unable to use stances. When this enchament ends, you lose all enchaments and 1 condition for each lost. Move to Shadow arts or critical strikes.

a lousy contemplation of purity clone

Quote:

Aura of Displacement - While you maintain this enchantment you move 0 - 33% faster, but you are unable to use stances. If you are targeting an ally when this ends, you shadow step to his position and lose all enchantments and stance (range of half radar) reduce cost to 5. Move to Shadow or Critical.

what complete shit

Quote:

Shadow Fang - for x - x seconds you move 25% faster, the next foe to hit will suffer deep wound for x - xx seconds if you critical them. reduce recharge to 15.

Note that all stance that have an effect upon hitting a foe will end when you hit them.

ok so you have a ONE hit chance to critical and cause dw, seriously who would use this trash?

Quote:

Recall - If you are targeting an ally you move 40 - 50% faster, if target ally has less health than you when this stance ends, you lose 20 - 10 energy and skill are disabled for 10 - 7 seconds. Move to critical or shadow.

i have no words to describe this failure