Curse

DDL · Nov 27, 2007, 07:54 PM // 19:54

"Counts as a lead attack" would be nice, given that you're giving up an elite slot for something that doesn't even technically do damage. Sure, it's a lot less dodgeable than BHA, but the daze duration isn't very long.

Mirt · Nov 27, 2007, 08:24 PM // 20:24

""Counts as a lead attack"

Did you consider:

BHaze -> Golden Fang Strike -> Horns of the Ox -> Falling Spider -> Blades of Steel.

ensoriki · Nov 27, 2007, 09:02 PM // 21:02

Beguiling Haze's energy cost is to high for that combo Mirt.
Unless your willing to sacrifice, Runes/Survivor insignia's which most people arent.

Anyways guys stay on topic, this topic is about assassin utility.
The idea is that, Moriz thread deals with things like daggers.
This deals with the utility =P.

So post your utility suggestions, things you'd like to see happen with utility on an assassin.
Please and thank you.

Shuuda · Nov 28, 2007, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Some more lame ideas here.

Return - All adjacent foe a crippled for x - xx seconds, and you move 33% faster for x- xx seconds.

Death's Charge - You move 33% faster for x - xx seconds, when this stance ends you gain xx - xxx health. Reduce recharge to 15 - 20

Beguiling Haze - you move 33% faster for x - xx seconds, the next foe you hit is dazed for x - xx seconds. Change cost to 5, or 10 if 5 is over powered.

Shadow Prison - you move 33% faster for x - xx seconds, the next foe you hit is crippled for x - xx seconds. Change cost to 5 and recharge to 15 - 20.

Dark Prison - You move 15% faster for x - xx seconds, if you hit a moving foe, they are crippled for x - x seconds. Reduce cost to 5 and recharge to 20

Death's retreat - You move 40% faster for x - x seconds, when this stance ends you gain xx - xx health and an extra xx - xx health for every ally in the area (maxium of xx) ( or replace the extra health gain with a condition for every ally in area max of 1 - 3)

Scorpion Wire - You move 10% faster for x - x seconds, if the next foe you hit is moving, they are knocked down. (50% chance to fail if 4 or less in deadly arts) reduce recharge to 15 - 20.

Shadow Meld - While you maintain this enchantment you move 0 - 33% faster, but you will be unable to use stances. When this enchament ends, you lose all enchaments and 1 condition for each lost. Move to Shadow arts or critical strikes.

Aura of Displacement - While you maintain this enchantment you move 0 - 33% faster, but you are unable to use stances. If you are targeting an ally when this ends, you shadow step to his position and lose all enchantments and stance (range of half radar) reduce cost to 5. Move to Shadow or Critical.
(Rusbish I know, but I'm stumpped on how to change that)

Shadow Fang - for x - x seconds you move 25% faster, the next foe to hit will suffer deep wound for x - xx seconds if you critical them. reduce recharge to 15.

Shadow Walk - For x - xx seconds you move 40% faster, but you cannot use or be the target of allied spells or enchantments. Move to shadow arts. reduce recharge to 25.

Spirit Walk - For x - xx seconds you move 33% fasters and gain x - xx health for each second moving if there are allied spirits in the area.

Vipers Defence - All adjacent Foes are poisoned for x - xx seconds, and you move 33% faster for x - xx seconds.

Swap - If target Foe is moving faster than normal, they lose xx - xx health and you move 25% faster for x - xx seconds. Move to deadly arts. Increase recharge to 15.

Recall - If you are targeting an ally you move 40 - 50% faster, if target ally has less health than you when this stance ends, you lose 20 - 10 energy and skill are disabled for 10 - 7 seconds. Move to critical or shadow.

Note that all stance that have an effect upon hitting a foe will end when you hit them.

Yay for my crappy idea. Atleast it will remove broken stepping from the game, for the most part. >_>

Jaigoda · Nov 28, 2007, 04:02 PM // 16:02

Shadow stepping is what give us our surprise. Remove that, and we're a paper-thin-armored warrior with lotsa speed buffs.

Shuuda · Nov 28, 2007, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaigoda

Shadow stepping is what give us our surprise. Remove that, and we're a paper-thin-armored warrior with lotsa speed buffs.

I don't want to explain why Shadow stepping is bad for the game. By changing it all to run stances, assassins can have great mobility, with some nice effects added on the end, and positioning can still be a good, important part of PvP as was before shadow stepping. You can't suprise any half decent players anymore because they will expect you to shadow step the second they see you and prepare for it, it's how pre protting works.

I know my idea needs loads of work, but overpowered running is closer to balance that overpowered shadow stepping at the least.

Jaigoda · Nov 28, 2007, 04:14 PM // 16:14

If I really want a speed buff, I'll take Dash. Theres no point bringing another crappy speed buff for a tine effect. Want cripple? Grab BMT. Want Dazed? Grab Temple Strike. Want a KD? grab HotO. There's no point in these crap substitutes for shadow steps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuuda

Some more lame ideas here.

QFT

MercenaryK · Nov 28, 2007, 04:22 PM // 16:22

The shadow step changes to IMS would give more open time to throw up prots and ease up the tension of suspecting an assassin's attack. While you'd now have to run to your opponent, yes even at 33% or 40%, it's a lot more noticeable. The target would literally need to be oblivious to your presence.

Current shadow stepping is nice enough as is. If you still desire changes, re-work spirit walk as that enforces an allied spirit; doesn't it normally require any spirit? Try not to make the skills have requirements an A/--- can't fulfill itself.

Shuuda · Nov 28, 2007, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaigoda

If I really want a speed buff, I'll take Dash. Theres no point bringing another crappy speed buff for a tine effect. Want cripple? Grab BMT. Want Dazed? Grab Temple Strike. Want a KD? grab HotO. There's no point in these crap substitutes for shadow steps.

QFT

More options, the better, the whole point of fixing assassin utility was to increace viable option. Maybe I don't/can't use Ox for my knock down, or Temple for my daze, or BMT for cripple. In the same way that axe warriors can't use hammers for knock downs, so they use Bull strike and shock.

At any rate, I challenge you to come up with a better idea to fix shadow stepping/ replace with a more flexable option. Or are you one of them pathetic types that deny that they are an issue.

Quote:

The shadow step changes to IMS would give more open time to throw up prots and ease up the tension of suspecting an assassin's attack. While you'd now have to run to your opponent, yes even at 33% or 40%, it's a lot more noticeable. The target would literally need to be oblivious to your presence.

That's the plan, add positioning back into the game and make it take more skill and planning to get the kill. Warriors have to run up to foe, they do less damage in short times than sins do, they kill fine with skill.

X Cytherea X · Nov 28, 2007, 04:27 PM // 16:27

assault enchantments - add "target foe suffers 5...20 damage for each enchantment lost"

beguiling haze - 10e and increase daze duration to 3...15

deadly haste - add "and become full-ranged"

expunge enchantments - 5e 20r

lift enchantment - add 5...40 damage

mark of instability - 5e 15r

scorpion wire - hex spell. after 8...2 seconds, target foe is knocked down and you shadowstep to it. full range, 10e 1c 15r
make it useful ffs

shadow fang - reduce duration to 5 seconds. reduce recharge to 20.
this would be a pretty cool skill. reminiscent of anime where enemy dies after hero unleashes flurry of attacks and is already far away in a cool pose

shadow refuge - you gain health if you are NOT attacking
makes more sense

swap - can target foes and allies. increase recharge to 20 seconds.
i see awesome use for this. you and 2 warriors all stand together. you swap the enemy monk. warriors gank it.

unseen fury - stance. for 1...16 seconds, you are unblockable and attack 33% faster against blinded foes. 5e 20r
now that does the skill name more justice. blindbots would now blind non-melees just for this. team synergy ftw.

wastrel's collapse - elite hex spell. for 5 seconds, it does nothing. when it ends, target foe is knocked down. this ends prematurely if target foe uses a skill. (kd after 5 seconds, or if removed, or if uses skill) 5e 1c 12r
change the worst elite in the game to a decent one.

edited again

Shuuda · Nov 28, 2007, 04:56 PM // 16:56

I don't think it's reasonable for Swap to be able to target allies and enemies, it could be heavily abused.

Your buff to Unseen fury would create overpowered EDA assassins.

You idea for Shadow fang is pretty big nerf in my opinion, since it gives you less time to perform actions.

You buff to scorpion wire is more elite skill material. Altough I like it since I have a soft spot for that skill.

Deadly Haste, looks interesting.

Jaigoda · Nov 28, 2007, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Seriously, Echo+DD+DH would be unstoppable. Full-ranged, 100 damage every 1.25 seconds on a squishy, repeatable 'till energy runs out. Team up with another one and you could easily spike down a monk in 3.75 seconds (each do DD 3 times for 600 damage). You people already hate DA 'sins, and yet you're supporting a huge buff to them?

Shuuda · Nov 28, 2007, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Dancing daggers is in the end, a weak skill.

- Diversion > Spamming
- High armor (shields with 10AL vs earth) > Dancing daggers
- Shielding hands/ SoA > Dancing daggers.

Deadly Art spikers are overpowered because of the two ranged and unconditional knock downs. Going A/Me would reduce you to one, Much weaker than A/Mo.

Jaigoda · Nov 28, 2007, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Might be weak in high-end PvP, but it'd raise hell in the arenas. Yeah, it can be shut down, but so can every other build known right now. Diversion, armor, and SH/SoA will hurt every pressure (and spike to an extent) build, Though it's rare to see any of those in RA/TA.

X Cytherea X · Nov 28, 2007, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Quote:

You idea for Shadow fang is pretty big nerf in my opinion, since it gives you less time to perform actions.

5 secs is enough for a combo and you get the DW sooner.

Shuuda · Nov 28, 2007, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaigoda

Might be weak in high-end PvP, but it'd raise hell in the arenas. Yeah, it can be shut down, but so can every other build known right now. Diversion, armor, and SH/SoA will hurt every pressure (and spike to an extent) build, Though it's rare to see any of those in RA/TA.

Nope, a half decent monk in RA could handle DD spamm. it's the rest of the combo that gives so much harm. No monk in your team, your gonna lose anyway.

Any monk that can't handle DD spam has improving to do.

The worst thing about the deadly haste change lies in Siphon Speed and Augury of Death.

Quote:

5 secs is enough for a combo and you get the DW sooner.

And if they are no finished, you'll waste time walking up to them again. Shadow Fang just isn't good in it's current style.

Jaigoda · Nov 28, 2007, 06:09 PM // 18:09

Quote: