Curse

Splitisoda · Feb 13, 2008, 11:52 PM // 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

OK so let's have a look

- requires heavy Shadow Arts investment to offer significant(-ish) regen. As the Shadow line is bad overall, this is a big minus.
- has a 1sec casting time, which is a big risk to take in the place where you'd seemingly want to use it (in combat).
- 4 or 6 sec duration wasn't really an issue. We're generally talking 32HP here. In a way, the shorter duration is a BUFF because the (conditional!) health spike arrives sooner.
- Awesomely bad on defense. The condition for the health spike can't be met, while the regen is not enough to justify the casting time.
- Those who value self-heals tend to go /Mo for Restful Breeze, SR's main competition. Comparing them is just... unfair. That says enough.
- On a personal note: it takes up a skill slot that could have been used for something far more interesting, though this is personal preference above all else.

Shadow Refuge died a long time ago, and despite ANets recent attempts at reanimation, the trash can remains the only right place for this disaster.

Feigned Naturality, at 8 spec its 7 regen, 7 seconds.
Shadow Refuge , at 8 spec its 8 regen with 6 seconds (before this stupid nerf_

If you want the conditional health, GTFO. If i ever used a self heal as an assassin, it'll probably be when im near done with my combo. And thats normally when im right about dead. I see lots more logic in using it, then dashing away or something. The hp regen will at least save you from degen.

The fact that SR has a 1 sec casting time, makes up for the fact it has 8 second recharge. It can come back pretty fast really.

Restful Breeze, your gonna have a 2-1 second dash and then your just walking like a stick. If you do anything with it your scrued really.

Every class, exception for casters (not monks duh) should really have a self heal. If you don't, it's like saying a 4 man team is relying on 1 monk to keep them all alive, and the possible in AB, more.

Crippie its Tom · Feb 14, 2008, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splitisoda

Every class, exception for casters (not monks duh) should really have a self heal. If you don't, it's like saying a 4 man team is relying on 1 monk to keep them all alive, and the possible in AB, more.

so if you're running a caster other than monk in RA you dont bring a self heal?

I wouldn't waste a rez on you.

Splitisoda · Feb 14, 2008, 01:25 AM // 01:25

"RA" is as far as I read.
Yes, casters CAN bring self heal, but i'd rather have them deal 70 more damage then live 1 sec more doing nothing in those seconds.

Bobby2 · Feb 14, 2008, 01:59 AM // 01:59

@ Crippie: you should really consider the context of a post before you comment on it.

@ Splitisoda: I never mentioned RA. The only format where you can't ever rely upon a preset team set-up, it would be a bad reference to a more general statement. In the case of RA, I do believe one should have a self-heal. But don't try to argue SR tops RB in any way.

MIloTN · Feb 16, 2008, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Used correctly offensively, as well as defensively, Death's Charge will mitigate more damage than SR even if its heal was unconditional.

If you're really worried about self heals in a place like RA, hell even Critical Defences is a better idea. Not that I condone its appointage on anyones bar.

Splitisoda · Feb 16, 2008, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

@ Crippie: you should really consider the context of a post before you comment on it.

@ Splitisoda: I never mentioned RA. The only format where you can't ever rely upon a preset team set-up, it would be a bad reference to a more general statement. In the case of RA, I do believe one should have a self-heal. But don't try to argue SR tops RB in any way.

Well, their are 2 points from this.

RB can be better, I'll agree to this. But what MY point of view is was that it's for more suited for those chains that take forever to recharge, because your probably not gonna be using regular dagger attacks on an enemy (srsly)

Where as, lots of times I use short recharge builds so I use SR because I have the privelage of fighting until I'm dead/out of energy.

Bobby2 · Feb 17, 2008, 04:28 AM // 04:28

Short recharge chains? *assumes MS builds

Even then I can't see a way of justifying a 1s heal spell mid-chain. It completely destroys the notion of spiking. Right now the only place a Sin should be self-healing is out of combat (eg when not spiking) and for this simple reason RB will always be way better in my book.

Fleeting · Feb 22, 2008, 05:52 AM // 05:52

I think SR used to halve incoming damage while it lasted, but didn't have the conditional heal. Probably way back in the preview event.

Edit: What I'm saying is that the old SR might be better, given more regen.

Stormlord Alex · Feb 22, 2008, 06:19 AM // 06:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fleeting

I think SR used to halve incoming damage while it lasted, but didn't have the conditional heal. Probably way back in the preview event.

Yeeah, it did, waaay back when assassins did little rolls when running fast too (I miss that

)

However, that form was too powerful - giving any class, essentially, an unlinked 50% damage reduction for 4 seconds out of every 9, screw healing.

Snow Bunny · Feb 22, 2008, 06:35 AM // 06:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

However, that form was too powerful - giving any class, essentially, an unlinked 50% damage reduction for 4 seconds out of every 9, screw healing.

Stop being bad at PvE alex.

You know that 50% damage reduction isn't good enough when you're frenzying against stuff.

Stormlord Alex · Feb 22, 2008, 07:09 AM // 07:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Stop being bad at PvE alex.

You know that 50% damage reduction isn't good enough when you're frenzying against stuff.

omg u noob

thats y its beter nao! 6 regen iz enuff to cancel frenzy m i rite?

Bobby2 · Feb 22, 2008, 11:04 AM // 11:04

psh only need 3 regen

Snow Bunny · Feb 22, 2008, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

omg u noob

thats y its beter nao! 6 regen iz enuff to cancel frenzy m i rite?

Yus, u r riet.

Ontopic: Shadow Refuge, after 50% damage mitigation, is bad.

Splitisoda · Feb 22, 2008, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

Short recharge chains? *assumes MS builds

Even then I can't see a way of justifying a 1s heal spell mid-chain. It completely destroys the notion of spiking. Right now the only place a Sin should be self-healing is out of combat (eg when not spiking) and for this simple reason RB will always be way better in my book.

Ive also seen [skill]Golden Fox Strike[/skill][skill]Wild Strike[/skill][skill]Shattering Assault[/skill] Thats a 4 second recharge.

ensoriki · Feb 23, 2008, 04:08 AM // 04:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crippie its Tom

Health degen and DoT will still kill you no matter how far you run. plus speed boosts... dont help if you're crippled.

Shadow refuge doesnt help you if your crippled.
Cus your going to die >.>

ShadowsRequiem · Feb 23, 2008, 05:04 AM // 05:04

Thought it was always crap and never really any good. Though it was funny having to gank and switch to a wand just to get the + health. Though that was a looooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnngggggggggggggggggg time ago.

Bobby2 · Feb 23, 2008, 05:26 AM // 05:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splitisoda

Where as, lots of times I use short recharge builds so I use SR because I have the privelage of fighting until I'm dead/out of energy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splitisoda

Ive also seen [skill]Golden Fox Strike[/skill][skill]Wild Strike[/skill][skill]Shattering Assault[/skill] Thats a 4 second recharge.

Takes work just be be spamming that chain without it draining your e-bar like a mofo. Can't see how this would make SR viable.

Tyla · Feb 23, 2008, 03:49 PM // 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

Takes work just be be spamming that chain without it draining your e-bar like a mofo. Can't see how this would make SR viable.

And it's more suspectable to shutdown than an MS/DB chain.
That combo is basically...D-Shot or Divert a single one of those skills, it's gone.
MS/DB....MS gets d-shotted you still have your Death Blossom l-o-d along with the kd from HoTo.
DB or MS gets d-shotted, MS on a 50% enemy should be good enough.

But SR isn't good at all.

Rexion · Feb 24, 2008, 03:57 PM // 15:57

if you want regen...
go with Shadow Sanctuary. It causes you to be blind, which will motivate you to run away and heal up. And it is 10 seconds of a 5...9...10 regen. Can't go wrong there.

Coloneh · Feb 24, 2008, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rexion

if you want regen...
go with Shadow Sanctuary. It causes you to be blind, which will motivate you to run away and heal up. And it is 10 seconds of a 5...9...10 regen. Can't go wrong there.

unless, you know, your playing pvp...