Curse

Pvp4lyfe · Mar 02, 2008, 08:40 AM // 08:40

has any1 noticed that sin spikes dont rly need elites?..

i mean look at this build:

[card]Shadow Prison[/card] [card]Tiger Stance[/card] [card]Black Mantis Thrust[/card] [card]Jungle Strike[/card] [card]Trampling Ox[/card] [card]Falling Lotus Strike[/card] [card]Blades of Steel[/card] [card]Ressurection Signet[/card]

now tell me, does this rly need shadow prison? u could do this with siphon easily and if u want u can get rid of rez and use siphon speed then deaths charge or shadow step and use spike.

i used a stronger sig of death. corruption spike and i dont use shadow prison bcuz siphon speed has less recharge time so i can use my spike more times.

do we rly need elites for most spikes? and im talking about A/ spikes.

*EDIT* [card]Trampling Ox[/card] [card]Falling Lotus Strike[/card] [card]Resurrection Signet[/card] ok lets c if this works..

**EDIT** huh Eotn skill popups dont work..

Luminarus · Mar 02, 2008, 09:15 AM // 09:15

Its true that the elite usually serves the purpose of:

in the case of [skill]Shadow Prison[/skill] to snare the opponent & provide the hex for the starter, and prevent the need to reach the target. It literally allows the sin to get there faster.
In the case of [skill]Shroud Of Silence[/skill] it prevents the foe from casting, which can be devastating for their defence.

Also u mentioned
[skill]Siphon Speed[/skill] + shadow step, probably [skill]Death's Charge[/skill] or [skill]Dark Prison[/skill]. What is the point of using 2 skills, when an elite can do what both do better, (and u cant use siphon + tele so often because of the recharge on the other teles).

Realistically the elites dont play THAT big a deal on spikes, however they make them easier, faster and save skill slots. Also, in those scenarios what elite would u suggest taking. The elite may not make THAT much difference, but its either
a) The build gains more from this elites then any other
or
b) No other elite works in conjunction with the build.

Div · Mar 02, 2008, 09:28 AM // 09:28

Not sure why you'd want to spike in PvE, but ok...

For PvP, SP is there to surprise the opponent and snare them so they can't just walk away from the combo.

RavagerOfDreams · Mar 02, 2008, 07:18 PM // 19:18

for spikes in pve use assassin promise as it allows spikes with longer charges to be spammed easily. I use assassins promise -> deaths charge -> tiger stance -> black mantis thrust -> jungle strike -> trampling oxe -> falling lotus strike -> twisting fangs. However i wouldn't recommend running spike builds with sins promise in high level pve as you usually can't kill your target by yourself and they are generally they have self heals or skills that prevent damage (like abbadons chosen).

elites for spikes are usually to snare and to provide the condition for the lead skips.

Pvp4lyfe · Mar 02, 2008, 10:44 PM // 22:44

uuuh guys im talkingabout pvp...

RavagerOfDreams · Mar 02, 2008, 10:51 PM // 22:51

elites in spike builds are used for 3 reasons (can be for more then one)

1- To snare the target to allow better spiking ( [card]Shadow Prison[/card], "coward", [card]Shove[/card])

2- To fill the requirement for your leadskip ([card]Shadow Prison[/card], [card]Aura of Displacement[/card])

3- to gain better position on the field (shadowsteps)

o and always use deep wound in your spikes :P

Pvp4lyfe · Mar 03, 2008, 01:52 AM // 01:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by RavagerOfDreams

o and always use deep wound in your spikes :P

excactly. using shadow prison is pointles in this build because u always want to use deep wound in spikes. therefore using sumthing like AoD makes a lot more sense so u can:

1.cause deep wound
2.reuse spikes faster

and u dont even need to suprise sum1 wen ur onli half a metre away from them. Most people can c ur name b4 u start ur spike so theres no actual "surprise" in using SP at all.

for people who dont know wat AoD is, [skill=text]Augury of Death[/skill]

Celeborn10 · Mar 03, 2008, 04:07 AM // 04:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pvp4lyfe

excactly. using shadow prison is pointles in this build because u always want to use deep wound in spikes. therefore using sumthing like AoD makes a lot more sense so u can:

1.cause deep wound
2.reuse spikes faster

and u dont even need to suprise sum1 wen ur onli half a metre away from them. Most people can c ur name b4 u start ur spike so theres no actual "surprise" in using SP at all.

for people who dont know wat AoD is, [skill=text]Augury of Death[/skill]

Aura of Displacement was the skill that was out first. Most of the community tends refers to Aura of Displacement as an AoD. Calling Augury AoD might confuse some folks.

As for Augury of Death the halfrange cast is a big 'tell' for casters with good situational awareness who tend to be Mesmers and Monks. ShadowPrison in comparison almost completely negates skillful positioning, any situational awareness and kiting on the target's part. Also Augury recharges in 12 seconds, only 3 seconds faster than Impale or Twisting (under Deadly Paradox).

To the opening post Assassin's don't have to use an elite to open up a chain but Elites frequently synergize with the build in a way that a non-elite substitute would be unable to replicate. Compare AoD to Shadow Walk and you'll see that AoD is more flexible, allows bar compression and gives the user a little more control over their shadowstepping.

Pvp4lyfe · Mar 03, 2008, 04:33 AM // 04:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celeborn10

Aura of Displacement was the skill that was out first. Most of the community tends refers to Aura of Displacement as an AoD. Calling Augury AoD might confuse some folks.

As for Augury of Death the halfrange cast is a big 'tell' for casters with good situational awareness who tend to be Mesmers and Monks. ShadowPrison in comparison almost completely negates skillful positioning, any situational awareness and kiting on the target's part. Also Augury recharges in 12 seconds, only 3 seconds faster than Impale or Twisting (under Deadly Paradox).

To the opening post Assassin's don't have to use an elite to open up a chain but Elites frequently synergize with the build in a way that a non-elite substitute would be unable to replicate. Compare AoD to Shadow Walk and you'll see that AoD is more flexible, allows bar compression and gives the user a little more control over their shadowstepping.

....*cough* umm most sin spikes start with attack skills that can onli be used on hexed foes.. *looks at aura of displacment* not a hex

RavagerOfDreams · Mar 03, 2008, 05:12 AM // 05:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pvp4lyfe

....*cough* umm most sin spikes start with attack skills that can onli be used on hexed foes.. *looks at aura of displacment* not a hex

*cough* don't pretend you know how to play sin *cough*

umm yea believe it or not sins use lead skips that need enchantments to skip. /doh imagine that

.

for instance.... [card]Golden Lotus Strike[/card] -> [card]Fox Fangs[/card] -> [card]Twisting Fangs[/card] -> [card]Golden Phoenix Strike[/card] -> [card]Blades of Steel[/card]

i know it's hard to believe but yes...it's true
and ever since anet nerfed poor shadow prison AoD has seen a lot more action due to its ability to allow the sin to control his position on the field. Hence we have seen a lot of new enchantment based spikes or spikes that use [card]Shock[/card] -> [card]Falling Spider[/card] and AoD because lets face it sins live longer using AoD

FengShuiDove · Mar 03, 2008, 06:36 AM // 06:36

Another snare opportunity is a surprise knockdown. I've been playing with a Beguiling Haze --> Iron Palm build recently just to shake it up. With Iron Palm, for example, and Shock would function the same way, once you pop in, if they even *reach* for a kite skill they'll be down and you can get it off. I'm experimenting with the build

[skill]Beguiling Haze[/skill][skill]Iron Palm[/skill][skill]Falling Lotus Strike[/skill][skill]Horns of the Ox[/skill][skill]Falling Spider[/skill][skill]Twisting Fangs[/skill][skill]Feigned Neutrality[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill].

Works decently so far, for a test build at least.

Bobby2 · Mar 03, 2008, 09:20 AM // 09:20

Shock-Falling is also 'surprise KD snare'

Apart from that, very few Elites make the cut. The ones that do are either unique in their effects, or do their stuff better than their non-elite counterparts.

Moebius - for infini-chaining
Haze - Daze is teh secks
SP - Shadow Step + Snare + Hex req = still good
AoD - covers both entry and escape + Ench req
Shroud - I never liked it, though it's great shutdown

I've used Shove to great effect and Assacaster horrors have stepped into their secondary very often (SoJ ne1?) but really, those 5 mentioned are the only Sin Elites worth it IMO.

Sir Pandra Pierva · Mar 03, 2008, 08:52 PM // 20:52

honestly the caster sins need to be nerfed into oblivion....i just get tired of seeing them everywere.

AoD has always been the best sin elite even pre SP nerf

covers 3 things that sins need to use more of. And less crit defenses..........
i have bad luck using crit defenses

RavagerOfDreams · Mar 04, 2008, 12:08 AM // 00:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Pandra Pierva

honestly the caster sins need to be nerfed into oblivion....i just get tired of seeing them everywere.

i haven't seen one since the 1v1 tournie my guild held

they already got nerfed pretty hard and since sins use some of those assacaster skills in other builds anet feels like being nice and not nerfing them (ty anet). So i guess your going to have to live with them ^_^

Sir Pandra Pierva · Mar 04, 2008, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by RavagerOfDreams

i haven't seen one since the 1v1 tournie my guild held

they already got nerfed pretty hard and since sins use some of those assacaster skills in other builds anet feels like being nice and not nerfing them (ty anet). So i guess your going to have to live with them ^_^

i must have some kind of perveted luck or unluck if thats what you wanna call it, i meet quite a few of them now. they mostly suck but still i get tired of them existing.

Deadly paradox should be removed from the game all together if you ask me. I have never seen a build use it besides the caster sins

RavagerOfDreams · Mar 04, 2008, 11:03 PM // 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Pandra Pierva

Deadly paradox should be removed from the game all together if you ask me. I have never seen a build use it besides the caster sins

i hurd perma form farming wuz good...