Curse

BlueSS · Mar 20, 2008, 08:51 PM // 20:51

SoS sins should be on that list too? all the sin split guilds had one.

dark prison, shroud of silence, iron palm, falling spider, vampiric assault, impale, signet of toxic shock, siphon speed

and what about the current meta? scythe sins!

edit: ooh, new update. looks like scythe sins are already out :P

Willow O Whisper · Mar 21, 2008, 01:26 AM // 01:26

I totaly agree with you Moriz changing back into that direction can only bring good things with it

.

RavagerOfDreams · Mar 21, 2008, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terraban

All assassin builds run 2 duals? What?

besides moebius + shattering

yes

sad...but true

Pvp4lyfe · Mar 21, 2008, 02:02 AM // 02:02

excellent job moriz but one thing i have noticed in evolution is the new "condition spam + sig of toxic shock and dead. corruption spike" that seems to hav a dmg cap of about 780 dmg. now thats evolution from the AoD sin build that did about 400 or less.

moriz · Mar 21, 2008, 02:11 AM // 02:11

i'm quite sure they deal around 480... at least the ones i've been playing around with. i suppose if you lengthen the combo it can reach 780+, but it's generally not worth it, i believe.

but anyways, these builds more or less are in the same line as the SP sins: they are pure spikers.

jaeharys targaryen · Mar 21, 2008, 02:21 AM // 02:21

you'd more effectively catch the spirit of the AoD family by grouping them together under two schools:namely, AoD with GPS(and list its attack chain) and AoD without GPS(and list its attack chain). to list the rest of the build specifically is stupid, theres always (some times significant) variants

look at the modern a/e:
dash-shadow refuge 7 SA
dark escape shadow refuge 9 SA
death's charge shadow refuge 7-9 SA

the utility in the AoD family has always changed(including off proffession defense, although /e lacks that)

also:

Quote:

70 armor is low low low??? WTF wow im sure all casters would love to have 70 armor, also RANGERS AND DERVISHES have 70 AL as well.

rangers also take half elemental damage and in any respectable build will have signficant protection in terms of blockign and self healing and disruption

dervishes have 25 extra health and oftentimes pack protective enchantments.

although the gist of your argument is correct(i.e., the glass cannon argument is only true because of total idiots), dont go around comparing assassins to rangers

EDIT::
also, document the DA sin(not the /mo, the /any from when DP was 50/50 5)
and the modern splitter, i.e. sp>palm>spider>vamp>imp>sots(/n, /any in variants)
dont document the A/D, its a different world entirely
the SA sin should also be documented
the Moebius HB sin
the sp with trampling should be acknowledged as the descedant/ HB version of the sp/ts, dont make it sound like they were contemporarys(although there meta's run together)

if you really wanna take this to the next level, you could try to document as well the significant meta shifts and skill changes that defined the assassin.

Regulus X · Mar 21, 2008, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Assassins' have evolved from Fierce Black Panthers to mere lil' black kittens. Izzy's got a grudge on the very profession and it's blatently clear:

SP = FTL
AP = FTL
SoS = FTL
A/Any = FTL

If ya'll don't like assassins no more, why not just have them withdrawn/recalled from Factions as a whole?

- Update -

Assassins have been recalled from Guild Wars: Factions.

(*Wouldn't that be as sight to see!*)

Sir Pandra Pierva · Mar 21, 2008, 05:04 PM // 17:04

lol izzy hates sins no one knows why....or does someone know why he hates em so much?

Bowstring Badass · Mar 21, 2008, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Pandra Pierva

lol izzy hates sins no one knows why....or does someone know why he hates em so much?

He doesn't like instagibs. lol

ensoriki · Mar 21, 2008, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam of Tyria

Have Anet revert most skills to their glory days? Or similar to what they used to be?

(Not including the SP skills and combos.)

then you have a class thats left behind in time who is inferior to the current state of the meta.

Unless you bring back Shadow of Haste in its glory =P.

Also Reverts of skills means jack squat when player mentality will just see
"aaah no instigib....put in more attacks!"

Assassins don't have the utility to survive a revert anyways, going back in time would probably just leave them crappy.

Quote:

if you really wanna take this to the next level, you could try to document as well the significant meta shifts and skill changes that defined the assassin.

AOD
GPS
moebius
Death blossom
dash
Shadow of Haste
Shadow Walk
Return
Deaths charge
Twisting fangs
Horns of the ox
Impale
Wild strike.
Disrupting Dagger
Black Lotus strike
Black Mantis thrust
Leaping mantis sting.

...if I remember those were/are the main ones >.>

Quote:

He doesn't like instagibs. lol

looks like the opposite to me

RavagerOfDreams · Mar 21, 2008, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Pandra Pierva

lol izzy hates sins no one knows why....or does someone know why he hates em so much?

he got raped one to many times by a sp sin

moriz · Mar 22, 2008, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regulus X

Assassins' have evolved from Fierce Black Panthers to mere lil' black kittens. Izzy's got a grudge on the very profession and it's blatently clear:

SP = FTL
AP = FTL
SoS = FTL
A/Any = FTL

If ya'll don't like assassins no more, why not just have them withdrawn/recalled from Factions as a whole?

- Update -

Assassins have been recalled from Guild Wars: Factions.

(*Wouldn't that be as sight to see!*)

yet it was the same izzy that gave assassins huge buffs a year ago, which allowed the whole "instagib" playing style to be viable. before that, an assassin (or any single character, for that matter) that can take someone from 100% hp to 0 in one combo was absolutely unheard of.

personally, i think most of you who are weeping over this are blowing things out of proportion. i can still play my assassin very effectively despite these nerfs. all it takes is a little bit of retooling and readjustment of the approach i take.

now, back to the thread at hand...

i intended for the thread as a general glance at the evolution of the assassin. i really can't be bothered to analyze each major update and the changes made to the profession. i chose the five builds because they are representative of the general idea and mindset behind playing the assassin at the time.

essentially, the assassin started out as a highly mobile disruption character that can take full advantage of odd-man matchups, then over time becomes simplified to straight-up spikers. the last few updates more or less shifted them back to what they were like before.

ensoriki · Mar 22, 2008, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

the assassin started out as a highly mobile disruption character that can take full advantage of odd-man matchups, then over time becomes simplified to straight-up spikers. the last few updates more or less shifted them back to what they were like before.

Where are you seeing this?

There were no or next to none (maybe I overlooked) updates in the past 3 months that put that incentive there, they look more like nerfed spikers now not mobile disruption

Jaigoda · Mar 22, 2008, 04:25 AM // 04:25

Put simply, since straight spike is dead, the only thing 'Sins CAN do now is mobile disruption. Before, there was no point to run anything but instagib on an Assassin, since a straight kill in 5 seconds is better than disrupting and finally killing a foe in 15+ seconds, if even that. Now, disruption is pretty much 'Sin's best bet...

moriz · Mar 22, 2008, 12:09 PM // 12:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by myself

it should be noted that the assassin's ability to survive and disrupt has not been directly nerfed. rather, their increased damage output made those two aspects obsolete.

no actual buff or nerf regarding assassin disruption took place. however, the buffs to straight damage kinda pushed the disruption aspect out. now with damage going back down, disruption is more prominent.

samcobra · Mar 22, 2008, 12:21 PM // 12:21

You forgot the deadly arts assassins, of which there were several varieties, but two major ones:
1) The Dancing Daggers guy
2) the Mistral Edge Vamp assault guys

Also, currently, strong sin bar is the AoD A/D, which has the capability of instagibbing someone, along with increased survivability due to AoD and self heal.

Problem with assassins is that as you nerf their damage, they need more slots to do their job, and they lose utility making them even less of a balanced class

~ Dan ~ · Mar 22, 2008, 12:28 PM // 12:28

It's funny to see that Anet's attempts to nerf the most broken retarded class to ever exist, made them stronger.

ensoriki · Mar 22, 2008, 04:42 PM // 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

It's funny to see that Anet's attempts to nerf the most broken retarded class to ever exist, made them stronger.

They made Paragons stronger?

Bobby2 · Mar 22, 2008, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

It's funny to see that Anet's attempts to nerf the most broken retarded class to ever exist, made them stronger.

Riiiiiight so which skill buff made this happen? 'Nerfs making a class stronger' = contradictio in terminis

craigrs84 · Mar 22, 2008, 11:19 PM // 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

They made Paragons stronger?

lol that's funny.

i don't really think of what they've been doing as of late as nerfing skills, more eliminating them.

i mean whats up with siphon speed. it went from a 5 second recharge to a 30 second recharge. that's like a 600% nerf. why... at least make it full range now.