Curse

Jam Jar · May 20, 2008, 04:27 AM // 04:27

Assassins definately aren't broken. They brake people instead

. Spiking, shadow stepping, oh yeah...

But to compensate, they have caster level armor, making them kind of squishie. Your [Critical Defenses] can't save you 24/7

.

Magikarp · May 20, 2008, 04:34 AM // 04:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adja1005

I can't stand how overpowered Assassins are at the moment in PvP, especially in AB, as they can go/be anywhere at anytime. Not to mention they can drop a Warrior with 800hp down to 0hp within a few seconds.

I'd love to see Assassins get smacked with the nerf bat, harsh i know, but this class has just ruined AB to be honest. I usually disagree with nerfs as i'm of the opinion that nerfing a class or skill doesn't create balance. But something needs to be done about Assassins in AB because at the moment its gg pwned within seconds if one decides to come at you.

if this isn't a joke, guild wars may not be the game for you tbh.

RavagerOfDreams · May 20, 2008, 04:59 AM // 04:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adja1005

I have nothing against the nature of what the Assassin class is meant to do i just think there needs to be some equality. The fact they can go anywhere and spike the hell out of anyone then disappear is somewhat annoying lol.

Point taken there but still the fact remains they can spike the hell out of "tough" classes like the warrior and leave them standing with 1/4 of their health bar left lol.

Not totally sure why you said that, but i'm glad i made your day lol. And btw i'm not actually a Ranger primary

!

well you sounded awful hateful in your first post....

also so what we can take a war from full to 1/4. Thats not that great. If that happens were all out of gas with a fully alive warrior right in front of us. Now you put that + a monk in there and you have one screwed sin.

generally i dont spike wars (unless there on frenzy then its always good for the lulz) as they usually end up living and thats just a wasted spike.

Tyla · May 20, 2008, 07:01 AM // 07:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

only true when pious assault was a 1/2s swing. nowadays, their slow swing rate really hurts them to the point that sins are more dangerous.

False.

Avatar of Melandru.

You know, the scythe swinging tree that's immune to all conditions?

*COUGH* Wearying Strike.

'Sins don't have access to runes, or AoM.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moko

and sinsplits are shit by themselves, the midline makes them good. before anyone wants to mention that. :P

<3

Either way, a PvP discussion in a PvE forum?!

Randvek · May 20, 2008, 07:07 AM // 07:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jam Jar

But to compensate, they have caster level armor, making them kind of squishie. Your [Critical Defenses] can't save you 24/7

.

If your squishies are leet and bring a shield to weapon swap, Assassins actually have less armor than the squishies when they have their daggers out, assuming the squishy uses the right shield (70 sin vs. 78 squishy). Point that out next time a sin thinks he can tank, haha.

BlackSephir · May 20, 2008, 09:06 AM // 09:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adja1005

I can't stand how overpowered Assassins are at the moment in PvP, especially in AB

If so, then fire nukers and touchers are also overpowered ;(

I'd also like to see you backup your "they can be everywhere" argument. Even shadowsteps are not teleport from 1 base to the other.

Adja1005 · May 20, 2008, 12:00 PM // 12:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

If so, then fire nukers and touchers are also overpowered ;(

I'd also like to see you backup your "they can be everywhere" argument. Even shadowsteps are not teleport from 1 base to the other.

I find AoE/Fire Ele's in AB to be fairly balanced. For all the potential damage they can deal out their limited in other ways. Their armour is low and so is their health usually which makes them easily dispatched my melee classes. And their spells tend to all be AoE for clearing shrines which means you can easily avoid the effects by moving out the area. Then there is the long cast/recharge times for some spells leaving a window open for interupts.

Touchers are far from overpowered the best description for them is overused and just plain stupid. For every Ranger i see going the toucher route i want to put a pin in my eyes because theres just so many better builds they could be running. Cripshot, conditon, interupt, spike, beastmaster to name a few.

As for my comment about Assassins being everywhere i obviously wasn't meaning they can teleport around a map to any place at will. I was referring to their ability to teleport right into you and spike the hell out of their targets before slipping away again.

Kaleban · May 20, 2008, 12:41 PM // 12:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adja1005

I find AoE/Fire Ele's in AB to be fairly balanced. For all the potential damage they can deal out their limited in other ways. Their armour is low and so is their health usually which makes them easily dispatched my melee classes. And their spells tend to all be AoE for clearing shrines which means you can easily avoid the effects by moving out the area. Then there is the long cast/recharge times for some spells leaving a window open for interupts.

Wrong. Just because a spell is AoE doesn't mean it isn't high damage. And the chaotic nature of areas like AB doesn't lend itself well to organized melee OR caster hate, I see more Empathy/Backfire spam from sins than I do mesmers these days. Usually, unless I'm running a interrupt build on my sin, very few interrupts actually are in the match. The only spell I see that is usually useless in 1v1 on an ele is Meteor Shower, but skills like Searing Flames and Starburst are devestating, especially considering people DO tend to bunch up around shrines in an effort to cap.

Quote:

Touchers are far from overpowered the best description for them is overused and just plain stupid. For every Ranger i see going the toucher route i want to put a pin in my eyes because theres just so many better builds they could be running. Cripshot, conditon, interupt, spike, beastmaster to name a few.

The nature of AB as a holding/capping meta means that endurance characters can effectively hold up many more players than they should be able to, which frees up members of their team to go cap. I see touch rangers all over the place in AB, and if you don't focus fire them, then they run around draining characters to death while their big nukers finish you off. The fact that it takes more than one character (usually) to kill a toucher means that's one less character capping/fighting. ESPECIALLY in AB, a toucher from a tactical standpoint is more effective than a lot of other ranger builds because of the simple fact it can delay the other team considerably.

Quote:

As for my comment about Assassins being everywhere i obviously wasn't meaning they can teleport around a map to any place at will. I was referring to their ability to teleport right into you and spike the hell out of their targets before slipping away again.

Sinspikes work on people who don't pay attention to their compass. As I've said before, melee hate skills work especially well on sins' fragile attack chain, a Dark Prison/Tiger Stance spiker who's lead or offhand is blocked is useless for the next 20 seconds or more. The amount of blocking stances/enchants are so prevalent that people who DON'T carry at least one into AB is ASKING to be spiked anyway.

In the end, sins are far from broken, and the people who seem to think shadowstepping is broken I think need to re-examine exactly what it does, which is move the sin into striking range. Simple kiting foils it, as does Shield Bash, Guardian, Aegis, Lightning Reflexes, etc., etc., etc. These days, a sin who is able to shadowstep and spike a target to death in one shot is either hitting an un-prepared and/or low health target, or is EXTREMELY lucky and/or using skills I don't know existed. Its the same for any class really, shadowstepping is just a "gimmick," whereas skills like Enraging Charge on a warrior have a lot of utility and act as a prep for a spike.

Stormlord Alex · May 20, 2008, 12:48 PM // 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

ESPECIALLY in AB, a toucher from a tactical standpoint is more effective than a lot of other ranger builds because of the simple fact it can delay the other team considerably.

[crippling shot] oh hi
A cripshot can hold down a whole enemy team ad infinitum.
A toucher can hold down a whole enemy team untill they decide to kill him.

Simply put, a standard cripshot (or even a generic archer with [pin down]) is of more value to your side than a toucher, as they can do something other than slow people down.
And touchers aren't even good at that.
Touchers really do suck.

Bobby2 · May 20, 2008, 12:56 PM // 12:56

You truly wanna make AB your baby, roll a Water Ele

Adja1005 · May 20, 2008, 01:23 PM // 13:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

Wrong. Just because a spell is AoE doesn't mean it isn't high damage.

I didn't say Ele's dealt out low damage spells did i? I said "For all the potential damage they can deal out". Which was indicating, atleast i thought, very clearly that they can deal out some good damage providing they have the opportunity too. IE providing they aren't interupted or shutdown or their target kites.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

And the chaotic nature of areas like AB doesn't lend itself well to organized melee OR caster hate, I see more Empathy/Backfire spam from sins than I do mesmers these days. Usually, unless I'm running a interrupt build on my sin, very few interrupts actually are in the match.

Say hello to my friends, Mr [skill]Distracting Shot[/skill] and Mr [skill]Savage Shot[/skill]. I see more Rangers running these in AB than i see actual Eles to be honest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

The only spell I see that is usually useless in 1v1 on an ele is Meteor Shower, but skills like Searing Flames and Starburst are devestating, especially considering people DO tend to bunch up around shrines in an effort to cap.

As i said a majority of Ele spells have a long cast time, or long enough that it allows for them to be interupted or for a melee player to get in range. And if that happens the Ele is most likely going to lose. Are you telling me you just stand there capping while being nuked? I mean come on, the first sign of an AoE spell near me and i run around the shrine in circles. Also i imagine that if teams are capping then they've killed the shrine defenders anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

The nature of AB as a holding/capping meta means that endurance characters can effectively hold up many more players than they should be able to, which frees up members of their team to go cap. I see touch rangers all over the place in AB, and if you don't focus fire them, then they run around draining characters to death while their big nukers finish you off.

I think your making Touch Rangers sound more dangerous than they really are, that or you really suck at killing them. A single toucher can be brought down easily because they tend to burn out their energy pool and repeatedly use OoB which saps their health aswell. Learn the toucher build and you'll see just how easy it is to beat it. Also remember a lot of rangers carry throw dirt in AB to support their party, just because a Ranger chucks some sand in your eyes doesnt make them a toucher

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

The fact that it takes more than one character (usually) to kill a toucher means that's one less character capping/fighting. ESPECIALLY in AB, a toucher from a tactical standpoint is more effective than a lot of other ranger builds because of the simple fact it can delay the other team considerably.

As Stormlord Alex has pointed out a Ranger running a Cripshot build will slow a lot more players down than any toucher will. Not to mention a good old condition build will pretty much do the same thing, degen is a great way to slow a team down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

Sinspikes work on people who don't pay attention to their compass. As I've said before, melee hate skills work especially well on sins' fragile attack chain, a Dark Prison/Tiger Stance spiker who's lead or offhand is blocked is useless for the next 20 seconds or more. The amount of blocking stances/enchants are so prevalent that people who DON'T carry at least one into AB is ASKING to be spiked anyway.

To quote what you said earlier in your post "the chaotic nature of AB" means not everyone is looking at the radar when their in the middle of a fight. Not to mention skills like [skill]Critical Defense[/skill] can be renewed when they Crit which is usually very often for an Assassin.

[skill]Wild Strike[/skill] and [skill]Mark of Insecurity[/skill] are two skills i see used often by sin spikers, especially against Touchers. I do agree that if you block an Assassin's first attack you can screw up their combo but again in AB it's not always a guarantee.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

In the end, sins are far from broken, and the people who seem to think shadowstepping is broken I think need to re-examine exactly what it does, which is move the sin into striking range. Simple kiting foils it, as does Shield Bash, Guardian, Aegis, Lightning Reflexes, etc., etc., etc.

Again i'll point out that in AB, as you've already mentioned, things get chaotic and you cant always keep track of everyone especially if your focused on taking down shrine defenders.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

These days, a sin who is able to shadowstep and spike a target to death in one shot is either hitting an un-prepared and/or low health target, or is EXTREMELY lucky and/or using skills I don't know existed. Its the same for any class really, shadowstepping is just a "gimmick," whereas skills like Enraging Charge on a warrior have a lot of utility and act as a prep for a spike.

Thats the point about shadowstep its a cheap gimmick that allows a sin to jump in, spike you to near death or even kill you. Then jump back and do the same again to some poor fool. It wouldnt be so bad if it werent for the fact Assassins tend to have some seriously strong, dare i say overpowered, spiking damage.

Super Igor · May 20, 2008, 03:15 PM // 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

You truly wanna make AB your baby, roll a Water Ele

lol

If you trully want to make AB your baby run balanced, good balanced team is > 12 noobs. What can be more fun than to kd 6-7 people at once with [earth shaker] and see you ele pwn them with [savannah heat] and [rodgorts invocation] with a good old [ancestor's rage] thrown on you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

ESPECIALLY in AB, a toucher from a tactical standpoint is more effective than a lot of other ranger builds because of the simple fact it can delay the other team considerably.

This just proves you as a terribad player Kaleban, sorry for harshness but this statement about touchers proves you to be that once more. How come, you are saying that [cripshot] ranger is inferior to a toucher? How come you say that spamming two skills that berely do anything to a player's red bar is better then [distracting shot]? How come you say that spamming those touch skills is better then having all of the opponents in your range struggle to run from the wrath of you melee and ele? Im speechless about you dude....just speechless...

Kafiri_Mkorogai · May 20, 2008, 03:53 PM // 15:53

I believe I have found relevant answers in this quite confused amalgam

. You are all welcome to close this thread now.

moko · May 20, 2008, 04:53 PM // 16:53

hibyeimclosingnow