Curse

rebirthofdragon · Jun 14, 2008, 07:23 PM // 19:23

I keep wanting to try perma-SF with an Ele not that SF has been buffed, as people seem to say that it is possible.

By my count, [Shadow Form] at 12 Shadow Arts lasts 25 seconds, +5 seconds with a weapon of enchanting. It recharges in 60 seconds, which is cut down by 25% by [Glyph of Swiftness] and 33% by [Deadly Paradox]. However, since faster recharge only stacks to 50%, the recharge is 30 seconds...

So, it lasts 30 seconds, recharges in 30, and casts in about 2/3 second. This means that, in a perfect situation, for 2/3 seconds, you are down to 41 health with no cover; a lethal combination when you've got a mob around you.

Am I missing something?

-Lotus- · Jun 14, 2008, 07:50 PM // 19:50

dunno, try it.

Bo Fairfield · Jun 14, 2008, 07:51 PM // 19:51

bring a golden egg

using the +1 att, you can manage it, it lasts 32seconds.
You can also use a Grail of Might if you're rich.

N1ghtstalker · Jun 14, 2008, 07:57 PM // 19:57

sux huh
tried it and saw the recharge failed so it's not fit for farming i think

Abedeus · Jun 14, 2008, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by rebirthofdragon

I keep wanting to try perma-SF with an Ele not that SF has been buffed, as people seem to say that it is possible.

By my count, [Shadow Form] at 12 Shadow Arts lasts 25 seconds, +5 seconds with a weapon of enchanting. It recharges in 60 seconds, which is cut down by 25% by [Glyph of Swiftness] and 33% by [Deadly Paradox]. However, since faster recharge only stacks to 50%, the recharge is 30 seconds...

So, it lasts 30 seconds, recharges in 30, and casts in about 2/3 second. This means that, in a perfect situation, for 2/3 seconds, you are down to 41 health with no cover; a lethal combination when you've got a mob around you.

Am I missing something?

Cast time is 2/3 seconds. Enough for 1 mob to hit you for over 50 and more than sufficient for 2+ mobs to slaughter you.

Might work with golden eye and blessing, though.

Icy The Mage · Jun 14, 2008, 08:45 PM // 20:45

It does work with Golden Eggs

As well as Candy corn ^^

I've been running it like that for fun and profit :0

JMFD · Jun 15, 2008, 12:57 PM // 12:57

Mindbender helps too, reduces to 1/3 second

gelei · Jun 16, 2008, 06:36 AM // 06:36

Feigned Neutrality? Cast when SF is about to end, that few seconds are enough to recast SF and it has 25 sec recharge time.

tmakinen · Jun 16, 2008, 08:18 AM // 08:18

I don't find letting SF down in the middle of a mob a feasible option since it is more often than not used in a place full of physical and/or spell interrupts. Let your guard down for a second and you won't get a chance to put it back up. What I consider feasible options are:

3rd best option: Use consumables to boost up your Shadow Arts. Eats into profit.
2nd best option: Farm hit'n run style with SoH/Dash. As a primary ele your spells pack more punch than those of a sin and with the extended SF duration your job is easier than ever.
best option: just use your sin

shogun avatar · Jun 16, 2008, 08:38 AM // 08:38

Tried it as soon as the update came

Thath 2/3 second is leathal. It's not that big of a problem something hitting you, as big as it is getting a condition or having your SF interrupted.

It indeed works with eggs, or anything that ups your attribute, but those things are not always available

Sindy · Jun 16, 2008, 01:38 PM // 13:38

Quote:

best option: just use your sin

My fav character is my ele. Always been good to me for farming. Finally broke down and got my Sin all the needed farming eq, and i've never looked back!

Dark Paladin X · Jun 16, 2008, 01:46 PM // 13:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmakinen

I don't find letting SF down in the middle of a mob a feasible option since it is more often than not used in a place full of physical and/or spell interrupts. Let your guard down for a second and you won't get a chance to put it back up. What I consider feasible options are:

3rd best option: Use consumables to boost up your Shadow Arts. Eats into profit.
2nd best option: Farm hit'n run style with SoH/Dash. As a primary ele your spells pack more punch than those of a sin and with the extended SF duration your job is easier than ever.
best option: just use your sin

well, the best option requires sup shadow arts rune and the rune trader tends to run out of it (mostly because the shadow form build is relatively popular, more popular than the 55 monk), but good thing I bought the rune before the buff. I'm guessing the rarity of sup shadow arts rune is the reason why he's using an ele.

Anyways, for the shadow form ele, like he said, I suggest you get a consumable or blessing (better if combined in both) to boost your shadow arts attribute. Like he said, take advantage of your primary profession since you inflict damage with a consequence technically not able to maintain shadow form.

rebirthofdragon · Jun 16, 2008, 03:33 PM // 15:33

The problem with hit-and-run Ele farming is that if Sliver hits the wrong target in boss farming, you might have to repeat the process many, many times, while a Sin can stand there and recast Sliver every 23 seconds, until only the main target remains.

gelei · Jun 17, 2008, 08:17 AM // 08:17

Or you should simply use another build for your ele. That's the best solution

Shyft the Pyro · Jun 17, 2008, 01:04 PM // 13:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by gelei

Or you should simply use another build for your ele. That's the best solution

On a conset run, the perma ele is the most efficient choice: you are not slowed by Obsidian Flesh, you don't need someone to clear Aatxes for you, you have room for Shadow of Haste to speed up Ice Wastes, etc. If your team isn't using a conset, or once the consets run out, you'll effectively be useless, but the perma ele can contribute greatly to a "speed clear" of UW.

Mind you, the above is setting aside my personal feelings about consets and Ursans and "speed clears," which is why I'm calling the perma ele "most efficient" rather than "best." Conset reliance doesn't count for "safest" in my book, either.

ShadowbaneX · Jun 17, 2008, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmakinen

3rd best option: Use consumables to boost up your Shadow Arts. Eats into profit.
2nd best option: Farm hit'n run style with SoH/Dash. As a primary ele your spells pack more punch than those of a sin and with the extended SF duration your job is easier than ever.
best option: just use your sin

I have to disagree here. The best option is to just kill what you can and get out. I use my E/A for elite tome farming. Just jump in, kill the boss, perhaps a few others and get out. It's getting to the point where I'm giving away greens to guildies and friends because I don't have the room to keep them. If you want to wander around clearing out the map, yeah, sure, use your sin. If you want to get in there, kill a few things, grab the loot and scoot, stick with the ele. You'd be surprised how quickly things die with 19 in Earth Magic and backed up by [Intensity] and [Ebon Battle Standard of Honor].

tmakinen · Jun 18, 2008, 07:47 AM // 07:47

It's not like I haven't done my fair share of hit'n run ele farming, it is the most efficient option for some targets, yes. However, it lacks the flexibility of perma-SF. Some mobs are too dispersed to gather with a single use of SF. Sometimes there isn't enough room to run away, sometimes it's hard to even get to the farming place. A perma-SF sin can do everything a hit'n run ele can do but the reverse is not true, and thus the sin is superior, in general. If you are serious about farming then you'll always be using the best tool for the job in question regardless of which tools you prefer.

I would also like to point out that any Shadow Arts rune combined with the proper mask will make perma-SF possible, it doesn't have to be Superior

gelei · Jun 18, 2008, 08:20 AM // 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shyft the Pyro

On a conset run, the perma ele is the most efficient choice: you are not slowed by Obsidian Flesh, you don't need someone to clear Aatxes for you, you have room for Shadow of Haste to speed up Ice Wastes, etc. If your team isn't using a conset, or once the consets run out, you'll effectively be useless, but the perma ele can contribute greatly to a "speed clear" of UW.

Mind you, the above is setting aside my personal feelings about consets and Ursans and "speed clears," which is why I'm calling the perma ele "most efficient" rather than "best." Conset reliance doesn't count for "safest" in my book, either.

the only thing you must understand that perma-SF ruins economy. (1-11 ecto in 20 minutes, or simply look at the rune trader). 1-2 years ago, nearly every class was able to farm SOMETHING well. now, they don't cause loot was nerfed in places what ele can farm, but anet made sins invincible. is that fair?

Shyft the Pyro · Jun 18, 2008, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by gelei

the only thing you must understand that perma-SF ruins economy. (1-11 ecto in 20 minutes, or simply look at the rune trader). 1-2 years ago, nearly every class was able to farm SOMETHING well. now, they don't cause loot was nerfed in places what ele can farm, but anet made sins invincible. is that fair?

You, and everyone else who is screaming about "ruining the economy," need to take a long, hard look at what precisely an "economy" is.

"Economy" is not the same as a "status quo."
"Economy" is not something you can "ruin."
"Economy" is always changing.
"Economy" can not become "better" or "worse" - it can only become "stronger" or "weaker."

"Better" and "worse" are qualitative judgments, which depend heavily on the observer who makes them. The problem with this is that there are as many people as there are opinions, which means that "good" and "bad" are different for different people, which in turn means there is no absolute "good" or "bad." The economy may seem to be getting "worse" to you, but an Ursan or perma player raking in the ectos will hardly agree with your assessment.

That, of course, is ignoring the fact that an "economy" cannot actually be "ruined" unless it ceases to exist. An "economy" is the sum of all trade. Making it easier to farm - whether in the real world or in Guild Wars - might lead to a price deflation (as you've witnessed at the rare material trader), but it will not "ruin" the economy unless it results in a complete economic collapse. In the case of Guild Wars, this would require everyone to stop taking part in trade relations, which would only happen if everyone either a) quit the game, or b) could get everything they'd possibly ever need on their own and with minimal effort.

Option b) will never actually happen in Guild Wars, because (as in every economic system) there are opportunity costs: the time you spend farming ectos could at the very least be spent farming something else. The reason people farm ectos is because ectos are easy to turn into cash, and cash is the way economic systems solve the opportunity cost problems: pay someone for something you are unable or unwilling to do, and you can have both what you need (say, your salary) and what you want (say, cash to buy Guild Wars 2), as opposed to needing to do everything yourself (say, designing Guild Wars 2 because you want to play it).

I also take offense at your statement that "they've nerfed the places an ele can farm." Due to the large energy pool, the elementalist is the most versatile Guild Wars profession. An E/Mo can out-monk a Monk (thank you Ether Renewal), out-tank a Warrior (thank you Terra builds), and even out-perma an Assassin (thank you consets). The only reason people are not using an Elementalist to do all of these things is because it is easier not to. Running a "replacement" build takes skill; skill takes time. If Ursan Blessing is just as effective but requires immensely less skill and time, why should someone seeking to maximize their profit even bother looking at anything else? People still 55/SS and 600/smite UW, but if it's easier to just perma-sin it alone with ANet's blessing, why shouldn't they?

Heck, if the perma sins weren't trying to maximize their profit by grabbing the UW chest thanks to a team we'd never see them anyway

gelei · Jun 21, 2008, 08:11 AM // 08:11

oh come one, shall I mention my social economics orientated training? this is OFF btw but I know quite well 'economy'

I could give detailed presentations, but I didn't wanted to. Ecto in GW was a primary income-source, until it was challenging to get.

update: I still say that there are many great ele builds without perma-SF. like the E/A SF UW solo. it's not perma