Curse

FlamingMetroid · Jun 05, 2008, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiluna

Maybe give me advice what my build would need, please? As i did understant that you think it lacks something.

It has everything you need, most of MS/DB'ing is personal preference.

Kaleban · Jun 05, 2008, 10:39 PM // 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damian979

If what you're using is overpowered for the area you're in, run a different build that is more suitable for the team you have or the area you're in.

When is this EVER a problem? Its not like the MS/DB cycle has a 20 second recharge or anything, so just move on to the next target.

MS/DB really shines in HM, especially when whaling on a healer or boss, and the entire screen fills with yellow numbers!

Kiluna your bar is pretty much standard, however its obvious what the problem is, and that is you have an offhand attack applying Deep Wound. That's good for a shattersin build sure, but not MS/DB, I'd recommend changing it to Wild Strike for the unblockable stance removal, which will also help any other melees when going up against AI stance RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOs!

NOT having Deep Wound will actually make your DPS higher, since you can get off more than one DB chain, hitting all adjacent enemies, with enough mobs your aggregate damage will outdo any other skill in the game easily.

The Deep Wound is just making it less effective, even though that may be counter-intuitive for most.

I'd also replace the Rez with [skill]Assassin's Remedy[/skill] which helps a lot against Tainted Flesh Necros, blindbot Eles, and Throw Dirt Rangers.

Bobby2 · Jun 05, 2008, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Crowd control anyone? DPS isn't all there is to it ESPECIALLY in team builds

[skill]grasping earth[/skill][skill]deep freeze[/skill]

Ohai

Kiluna · Jun 06, 2008, 02:02 AM // 02:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

Kiluna your bar is pretty much standard, however its obvious what the problem is, and that is you have an offhand attack applying Deep Wound. That's good for a shattersin build sure, but not MS/DB, I'd recommend changing it to Wild Strike for the unblockable stance removal, which will also help any other melees when going up against AI stance RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOs!

NOT having Deep Wound will actually make your DPS higher, since you can get off more than one DB chain, hitting all adjacent enemies, with enough mobs your aggregate damage will outdo any other skill in the game easily.

Well, i did not say i've any problems with my build, i'm happy with the damage it does and foes dying too fast is not a problem for me because of the fast recharges. But i'll try your suggestions and see how it goes, so thanks anyway!

Edit: and i understant your point with my current off-hand.

fireflyry · Jun 06, 2008, 06:08 AM // 06:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damian979

All sarcasm aside, I feel that reducing the effectiveness of your overall team for the sake of seeing more numbers on your own screen is counter productive.

How is running a high DPS team with a DB spam build productive, especially in NM?As Jebus, and many other players, have said.....your lucky if you get an auto-attack in and it makes the DB spam builds near useless.

Logic therefore dictates:Change your team build if you want to run it to it's full potential.

Changing a team build to cater for DB spam is not reducing the effectiveness of your team at all, it's actually increasing it's overall effectiveness and efficiency which will lead to faster and easier farms, mission completions, etc, etc as your team is free to contribute in far more constructive ways.

If your running DB spam it's pretty obvious much of the AoE damage is in your hands hence you should'nt be running a uber-nuker team or have a H/H team killing mobs before you even get close and if your H/H team is'nt set up to compliment your build, in this case MS/DB, your off to a bad start ending in an inaccurate opinion of the builds performance.

In saying if the mobs are under lvl 20 you could roll nothing but [flurry] on your bar and still get by with an all hench team.

I'd rather have my H/H interrupting/spreading conditions/running e-management, etc, etc while I deal out the DPS.

If I'm a Sin with DB/MS....thats my job, leave interrupts to mesmers and rangers, especially with the AI's godly timing and the power of SY on my bar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jebus

Maybe I should focus more on support (like necromancer/paragon/rit etc.) But why would I want to compromise damage, only to see more damage on my screen (if I wanted that I'd just go farm Raptors tbh...)

It's about overall efficiency imo and you really should'nt need to sacrifice much to have an totally kick ass team build which easily incorporates DB spam.In saying there is a plethora of things to think about and any team with a couple of good nuker builds can steamroll most mob groups but what you have to ask is how efficient and fast is your team is over-all and could you sacrifice damage for say, energy return for example, which would lead to better overall team performance and prioritize you as the major damage dealer.

If your running a team where your 3rd or 4th on the DPS list the build is obvious fail and will play that way.

Obviously MS/DB spam builds are only as good as the team they are played with and how they work within that team structure.If your team is pumping out to much DPS or their builds are'nt allowing you to DB spam it's pretty easy to conclude your better off with something else (for my money any AP dagger build is great fun till they become useless in the later game).

In saying just about every area in NM is pretty easy pre-end game and tbh it's more about using a build you enjoy.DB/MS will be an obvious choice by the time you get to end-game or HM.

Good luck.

Super Igor · Jun 06, 2008, 11:59 AM // 11:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

Crowd control anyone? DPS isn't all there is to it ESPECIALLY in team builds

[skill]grasping earth[/skill][skill]deep freeze[/skill]

Ohai

You mean, on an Assassin bar?

Super Igor · Jun 06, 2008, 12:03 PM // 12:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by RavagerOfDreams

way of the sin is a wasted elite use [wounding strike] its broken as can be

Makes me like scyther sins, awesome skill, good scythe sin bar would be this imo:
[build prof=A/D box crit 12+1+1 scythe=12][wounding strike][chilling victory][mystic sweep][eremites attack][critical agility][aura of holy might][critical eye][optional][/build]

slot a skill of choice into optional slot, [i am the strongest] would be sweet for example.

Bobby2 · Jun 06, 2008, 12:32 PM // 12:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

Crowd control anyone? DPS isn't all there is to it ESPECIALLY in team builds

[skill]grasping earth[/skill][skill]deep freeze[/skill]

Ohai

You mean, on an Assassin bar?

You really should work on those leet reading skillz.

And I really miss [skill]way of the master[/skill] on that last bar of yours

Damian979 · Jun 06, 2008, 12:47 PM // 12:47

Running a build that is overpowered for what you are fighting is a big problem when you are wasting time and energy, and not using half your skills because everything dies before you can get off a chain.

If I want to be doing all the damage, I'll run solo or bring a team focused on supporting me. If I was running a team with 4 ele's as mentioned earlier then the DPS would already be covered and snare/shutdown tactics would be far more efficient.

It all comes down to what you are fighting and what the other 7 team members are bringing to the table. Heroes/henches don't really care if you boot them, but try asking 7 other members in a pug to change their builds so you can see more numbers. It's better to learn how to be versatile with your own skills. Or to better put it...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

Crowd control anyone? DPS isn't all there is to it ESPECIALLY in team builds

Unreal Havoc · Jun 06, 2008, 02:11 PM // 14:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

And I really miss [skill]way of the master[/skill] on that last bar of yours

On energy heavy builds Critical Eye is preferable for the extra energy gained on a critical hit as you would get 5 energy return per critical hit with Zealous weaponry. With AoE weapons (Scythes) or skills (Eremites Attack, Chilling Victory) it all adds up.

Jebus · Jun 06, 2008, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Okay, I've seen a lot of advice here, I'll try to build a different build around the DB/MS one.
One question though(Already asked before but it didn't get answered), what kind of Scythe should I use in the Scythesin build?

fireflyry · Jun 06, 2008, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damian979

Running a build that is overpowered for what you are fighting is a big problem when you are wasting time and energy, and not using half your skills because everything dies before you can get off a chain.

If I want to be doing all the damage, I'll run solo or bring a team focused on supporting me. If I was running a team with 4 ele's as mentioned earlier then the DPS would already be covered and snare/shutdown tactics would be far more efficient.

It all comes down to what you are fighting and what the other 7 team members are bringing to the table. Heroes/henches don't really care if you boot them, but try asking 7 other members in a pug to change their builds so you can see more numbers. It's better to learn how to be versatile with your own skills. Or to better put it...

Agreed but that's already been covered and your restating the obvious.

Refer to the original quote I replied too:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jebus

I ran the DB/MS build today on my sin, and I was bored very fast. I usually never got to use MS, as my opponent was already dead, rarely I was able to use DB. Making a chain in PvE thus seems pretty useless to me. Any comments?

Your WAY off-tangent stating a player needs to be versatile in human grouping, especially if pugging, as the original request has nothing to do with build versatility but thoughts as to why they found the MS/DB combo largely redundant.

Circles?

Damian979 · Jun 06, 2008, 02:47 PM // 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

Logic therefore dictates:Change your team build if you want to run it to it's full potential.

Changing a team build to cater for DB spam is not reducing the effectiveness of your team at all, it's actually increasing it's overall effectiveness and efficiency which will lead to faster and easier farms, mission completions, etc, etc as your team is free to contribute in far more constructive ways.

Restating the obvious would mean there wouldn't be comments like this being made.

If you want to H/H everything with a one build wonder, then fine, but "efficient" to me who hates henching crap, would be changing one build that doesn't fit the team, not the whole team. Hence versatility.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jebus

Okay, I've seen a lot of advice here, I'll try to build a different build around the DB/MS one.
One question though(Already asked before but it didn't get answered), what kind of Scythe should I use in the Scythesin build?

I don't scythesin much, but I found a zealous 15^50 fortitude works pretty good. Though there are probably better options.

fireflyry · Jun 06, 2008, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damian979

If you want to H/H everything with a one build wonder, then fine, but "efficient" to me who hates henching crap, would be changing one build that doesn't fit the team, not the whole team. Hence versatility.

lol

Jebus was'nt asking about build versatility...at all...he was asking for specific comment on why mobs were dropping before he even got an off-hand in when using a DB/MS build.

Again...your going off-topic to validate your point.

I totally agree with your opinion and run a truck load of "versatile" builds but that has absolutely nothing to do with the original request for comments on a specific build issue.

Going off into tangents of build versatility and total build changes really serves no purpose towards answering or helping with his query, it merely avoids it altogether.

Super Igor · Jun 06, 2008, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

You really should work on those leet reading skillz.

Might be interesting tbh, assassins like high enrgy stuff.:P

Quote:

And I really miss [skill]way of the master[/skill] on that last bar of yours

I dont like to go on overkill with enchies on my bars and usually prefer critical eye over wotm as it cant be stripped, left one slot as optional though so if you miss it use it, though, I think using both wotm and ce is a big overkill on crit bonus.

Damian979 · Jun 06, 2008, 04:56 PM // 16:56

lol The topic was actually best PvE sin, which in my opinion is the one that doesn't expect everyone else to change their build to cater to theirs regardless.

end topic

FlamingMetroid · Jun 06, 2008, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damian979

lol The topic was actually best PvE sin, which in my opinion is the one that lets other people run bad or unfitting builds.
end topic

how I read that

Super Igor · Jun 06, 2008, 05:03 PM // 17:03

I always bash over people's builds unless those people are good which is rare in pve community.

Damian979 · Jun 06, 2008, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Unfortunately if you are in a group running bad builds and you choose to stay, who's fault is that?

Bobby2 · Jun 06, 2008, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

I dont like to go on overkill with enchies on my bars and usually prefer critical eye over wotm as it cant be stripped, left one slot as optional though so if you miss it use it, though, I think using both wotm and ce is a big overkill on crit bonus.

Point well taken. But having to choose between WotM or IatS! for the last slot, I'd probably go with the first since Scythecrits are sooooooo juicy (and I haven't EVER had IatS! up all the time).

Someone (other than me!

) should do some number crunching on this one!