Curse

Damian979 · Jun 04, 2008, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jebus

I ran the DB/MS build today on my sin, and I was bored very fast.

Thank you, that was all I meant

FlamingMetroid · Jun 04, 2008, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jebus

I ran the DB/MS build today on my sin, and I was bored very fast. I usually never got to use MS, as my opponent was already dead, rarely I was able to use DB. Making a chain in PvE thus seems pretty useless to me. Any comments?

Hardmode, scythesin is usually better for areas where most enemies die whenever you look at them.

Bobby2 · Jun 04, 2008, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jebus

I ran the DB/MS build today on my sin, and I was bored very fast. I usually never got to use MS, as my opponent was already dead, rarely I was able to use DB. Making a chain in PvE thus seems pretty useless to me. Any comments?

Get off Shing Jea Island.

Jebus · Jun 04, 2008, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

Get off Shing Jea Island.

Sorry, I didn't realise Kourna was Shing Jea Island.

steel singer · Jun 04, 2008, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Everywhere expect on hardmode your targets die with wounding strike/ mystic/eremites combo..
And with your target mostly 2 others that are balled to..
Wich is 3 deaths in 2 seconds of attacking, so scythesin is better everywhere except perhaps the hardmode area's.. But then only because you need the extra armor from Save Yourselves..

Jebus · Jun 04, 2008, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Would this be a good 'scythesin' build?
[A/D;Owpj8NjcKTQXff6PxZje1gDQLiA]
(Not so sure about attack skills...)

RavagerOfDreams · Jun 04, 2008, 11:11 PM // 23:11

way of the sin is a wasted elite use [wounding strike] its broken as can be

Bobby2 · Jun 05, 2008, 12:50 AM // 00:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jebus

Sorry, I didn't realise Kourna was Shing Jea Island.

Sense teh sarcasm. Or not. Maybe you oughtta try something more challenging.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RavagerOfDreams

way of the sin is a wasted elite use [skill]wounding strike[/skill] its broken as can be

Truth.

-Lotus- · Jun 05, 2008, 02:27 AM // 02:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jebus

Sorry, I didn't realise Kourna was Shing Jea Island.

just dont make your heroes spike the same target you attack.

Kaleban · Jun 05, 2008, 04:44 AM // 04:44

Ctrl+Shift+Space a different target, like an elementalist or warrior type, then go DB the healer.

If running Crit Scythe, USUALLY [skill]Way of the Master[/skill] + [skill]Critical Eye[/skill] combined with your points in Critical Strikes is more than enough chance to crit, especially when the scythe is hitting three enemies.

Just a suggestion, you might drop [skill]Critical Defenses[/skill] in favor of [skill]Assassin's Remedy[/skill] regardless of build, being immune to blind, cripple and everything else is VERY nice, and usually IME adds more efficacy to a build, especially if you let tanks gather aggro first then come in from the flanks and blast away.

There are definitely better elites to use in a CritScythe build, as Ravager already mentioned.

fireflyry · Jun 05, 2008, 07:08 AM // 07:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jebus

I ran the DB/MS build today on my sin, and I was bored very fast. I usually never got to use MS, as my opponent was already dead, rarely I was able to use DB. Making a chain in PvE thus seems pretty useless to me. Any comments?

As already stated it sounds like your using the build without any tactical awareness of how to utilize it to it's full capacity within a team, especially in the first three campaigns.

If your not getting 1-3 DB cycles in per mob I'd assume either your hero builds are way to offensive, your team is to melee heavy which is'nt required/desired with a decent DB spam build (try setting your team to all caster) or your only targeting mobs with assistance of focus fire.

I'd assume the latter as just about any H/H team can drop a mob with focus fire in the first three campaigns before I even get close.Obviously that does'nt make the build bad as opposed to the way your playing it.

The build is popular for a reason which does'nt include mobs regularly dropping on the first two attacks of the chain.If that was actually a common occurrence the build would'nt be used....ever.

DB/MS spam is teh sex for a reason hence I'll assume your doing it wrong.

Damian979 · Jun 05, 2008, 01:24 PM // 13:24

LOL Jebus you MUST be doing something wrong, you're killing things WAY too fast. Try slowing down and letting the enemies kill you more.

fireflyry · Jun 05, 2008, 01:53 PM // 13:53

Don't be facetious and read my post.

Anyone can drop mobs fast without even contributing to the kill.You can kill groups faster with proper team structure and DB spam.

The point is Jebus must either have a strange H/H set-up, a lot of single target damage as part of his focus fire, or some incredibly bad luck.It's not rocket science to conclude that the most effective use of a MS/DB structured build involves minimal damage to your selected target to increase over-all AoE DPS and spread in which case yes...killing your target to fast IS counter productive.

Simple really.

Damian979 · Jun 05, 2008, 02:41 PM // 14:41

All sarcasm aside, I feel that reducing the effectiveness of your overall team for the sake of seeing more numbers on your own screen is counter productive.

If what you're using is overpowered for the area you're in, run a different build that is more suitable for the team you have or the area you're in. Don't just gimp 7 other people that are rolling through mobs so you can feel like you are doing "more". Try using interupts or conditions, which can still include Moebius if you want,to compliment the damage being done by a team that is obviously doing the job well.

Jebus · Jun 05, 2008, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

As already stated it sounds like your using the build without any tactical awareness of how to utilize it to it's full capacity within a team, especially in the first three campaigns.

If your not getting 1-3 DB cycles in per mob I'd assume either your hero builds are way to offensive, your team is to melee heavy which is'nt required/desired with a decent DB spam build (try setting your team to all caster) or your only targeting mobs with assistance of focus fire.

I'd assume the latter as just about any H/H team can drop a mob with focus fire in the first three campaigns before I even get close.Obviously that does'nt make the build bad as opposed to the way your playing it.

The build is popular for a reason which does'nt include mobs regularly dropping on the first two attacks of the chain.If that was actually a common occurrence the build would'nt be used....ever.

DB/MS spam is teh sex for a reason hence I'll assume your doing it wrong.

I sometimes get one cycle in on 'big' mobs (boss monsters and the like). Once I can finish my second DB the mob is usually dead. I don't believe I run a bad build (it's NM PvE, like anything can go wrong lol). As you recommended I ran 2 SH elementalists, with one monk (build varies) filled in with the two EOTN elementalists and monks. That's 4 Elementalists, 3 monks and me, as an Assassin. Mobs still went down fairly easy, with targetting other mobs for my heroes to attack.
Maybe I should focus more on support (like necromancer/paragon/rit etc.) But why would I want to compromise damage, only to see more damage on my screen (if I wanted that I'd just go farm Raptors tbh...)

I'll try the Scythesin build out. One question though, what kind of scythe should I use for that build?

Kiluna · Jun 05, 2008, 05:57 PM // 17:57

Heh, i've tryed it with 4 eles(2 heros, 2 henchies), 1 fast casting fire nuker (the high casting time aoes, M shower and so on), 2 monks and me on my sin and most of the time stuff died before i even got near of them. And yes, that was in Kourna against Corsairs.

You have to also remember that Kourna is where you get around 17 lvl with Nightfall charracter so it can't be filled with too hard mobs.

DB+MS spammer works fine for me in Vabbi and early desolation with slightly modified sabway (less defense more offense). I think you must be doing something wrong, as it's rare for me to not get blossom off at least once before stuff dies. Maybe it's that i just rush in without waiting for my H/H group, as most of the time this gives me 2-3 secs head before H/H damage comes in?

My setup with low damage? Umm...
Sabway (with less defense)
2 monks
2 eles or warriors, i randomly choose between them.

Here is result with it in Unwaking Waters as a only human player (luxon group was controlled by AI):

I don't think the above is too bad time for the run, but i don't claim it to be uber or best.
Edit: Cannot find the original screenshot with full screen, but if i remember right it was with 2 monk henchies, and a ranger and ele henchie.
Edit: Here's little better quality picture as .png

FlamingMetroid · Jun 05, 2008, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiluna

Heh, i've tryed it with 4 eles(2 heros, 2 henchies), 1 fast casting fire nuker (the high casting time aoes, M shower and so on), 2 monks and me on my sin and most of the time stuff died before i even got near of them. And yes, that was in Kourna against Corsairs.

You have to also remember that Kourna is where you get around 17 lvl with Nightfall charracter so it can't be filled with too hard mobs.

DB+MS spammer works fine for me in Vabbi and early desolation with slightly modified sabway (less defense more offense). I think you must be doing something wrong, as it's rare for me to not get blossom off at least once before stuff dies. Maybe it's that i just rush in without waiting for my H/H group, as most of the time this gives me 2-3 secs head before H/H damage comes in?

My setup with low damage? Umm...
Sabway (with less defense)
2 monks
2 eles or warriors, i randomly choose between them.

Here is result with it in Unwanking Waters as a only human player (luxon group was controlled by AI):

I don't think the above is too bad time for the run, but i don't claim it to be uber or best.

needs less res, you should be to busy not sucking/killing things to need one

ogre_jd · Jun 05, 2008, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Meh. Most of the time I don't get to do my Dual Attack on the creature that I'm targetting, much less [[Moebius Strike] and reusing the Dual Attack, thanks to the H/H's automatically joining in** as soon as they can reach me. Even shift-calling a different target then attacking the one I want myself doesn't help.

That annoyance, plus the fact that I died very frequently, even with [[Critical Defenses] or [[Flashing Blades] up, while using Daggers is what led me to Critical Barraging. At least with that build I get to fully perform the duties I've assiged myself - and with far fewer deaths.

** On the other hand, when my Warrior attacks something, even calling the target doesn't seem to help get the H/H's to join me, no matter how much I want them to. Doesn't help that I'm not good at multitasking and so can't really micromanage my Heroes in the middle of a combat. In contrast, the H/H's seem to obey my Monk's target calling almost without question - and also seem generally more competent and powerful, killing groups of enemies faster than when I'm on the front lines.

Damian979 · Jun 05, 2008, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Rofl.....unwanking, I needed a good laugh today thx

Kiluna · Jun 05, 2008, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlamingMetroid

needs less res, you should be to busy not sucking/killing things to need one

True, i don't even remember when i last time had to use it outside of PuG. It's just the What if... slot for me, as i don't feel my builds needs anything else in it. Maybe wild strike for the rangers in NF and Eotn, though i can just lock my heroes on the rangers (necros > blocking) while killing something else myself, or micro rigor on the ranger.

Maybe give me advice what my build would need, please? As i did understant that you think it lacks something.

Edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damian979

Rofl.....unwanking, I needed a good laugh today thx

Lol, fixed :P