Curse

Kaleban · May 16, 2008, 10:37 PM // 22:37

I'm a proponent of the shattersin builds for their versatility under almost any conditions within the game.

That being said, the shattersin's DPS is not that of MS+DB, so soloing a target to 50% or less is not as easy. Yes, in a party of 8 that's a relatively easy condition to meet, provided proper target calling and focused fire.

However, optimal conditions are not always met, and since a shattersin build's main strength is the ability to fight and kill under any conditions, the use of Impale to me is better because you can apply DW after the first Shatter, rather than be forced to wait until a target is at 50%. In high end PvE and HM, applying a DW at the beginning of a burn down is better than halfway, since it inhibits healing and speeds up the kill process from the start.

Of course, its all academic, and probably down to what you prefer. For my part, when playing a shatter build, I want maximum reliability, Impale in that regard is much better than FH!. And I'm less concerned about the bonus damage from either skill, compared to the DW.

RavagerOfDreams · May 16, 2008, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by dicecube

my thoughts exactly.. I didn't get why he put assassin and tanking together in the same sentence

tanking as a sin is fairly easy with [skill]Critical Agility[/skill] and the common sense to only aggro one mob. That + a minion bomber and you should be able to absorb any damage that hits you.

petrorabbit · May 16, 2008, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

...snip
However, optimal conditions are not always met, and since a shattersin build's main strength is the ability to fight and kill under any conditions, the use of Impale to me is better because you can apply DW after the first Shatter, rather than be forced to wait until a target is at 50%. In high end PvE and HM, applying a DW at the beginning of a burn down is better than halfway, since it inhibits healing and speeds up the kill process from the start.

Waiting until the target is at 50% is neglegable, especially in a full party. Besides, the Shattersin's strength is not to solo targets, so you won't often find yourself fighting a target alone. If you do, most likely, your party on the verge of wiping. Even the shattersin chain is supporting the whole group attacking that target, and [Finish Him] does that job better than impale. Yes, [Impale] DW can land earlier, but what is often overlooked is the application of cracked armor. Other than helping the whole party kill the target faster, there is also a cover condition in case one is removed. I really don't know which application covers the other, so if someone knows, please clarify. Either way, you will have at least one condition on the target that is benefiting the group.

I know it is up to the player to decide what they want to use, but 9/10 times, Finish him will be more useful than Impale on the shattersin bar.

Tyla · May 16, 2008, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

you never, ever, EVUR tank at all because it's bad!

Fixed for accuracy.

Holding aggro is fine though, as long as you don't devote your bar to selfish defense.

Super Igor · May 17, 2008, 01:16 AM // 01:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Fixed for accuracy.

Holding aggro is fine though, as long as you don't devote your bar to selfish defense.

Oh my, so nice of you Tyla!

Butby "tanking" we mean holding or taking aggro and bringing it to were it should be. In this case Assassin are just not build for any kind of such actions, and are better off sending higher AL's or the minion wall first and then enterring battle themselves and destroy everything with their insane DPS.

Unreal Havoc · May 17, 2008, 01:43 AM // 01:43

Quote:

my thoughts exactly.. I didn't get why he put assassin and tanking together in the same sentence

Solo farming MS/DB builds ring a bell here? Where you allow a mob to settle on you fully before laying into them with MS/DB? (A/D & A/Mo) That's what I was referencing to and seems you're not doing that in general PvE thats why I reccomend carrying Deep Wound because you don't have solid aggro around you all the time like when you are farming with MS/DB and is great for picking off lone targets that may have scattered etc.

Bobby2 · May 17, 2008, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

You infact were and is and can be wrong mate, terribly....wrong.

/snip

So you see, no matter how you put it, no matter how you will turn inside out in front of this debate, you still cant prove FH! to be inferior to Impale...

/snip

You, sir, need to learn to read. Specifically, the quote you used yourself:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

'I'm never wrong, people just misunderstand.'

I never, ever said [skill]finish him[/skill] was inferior to [skill]impale[/skill]. My argument against FH! was that it is only a tiny bit more powerful than a skill we DON'T have to spend a PvE slot on.

Don't try to argue for argument's sake. You'll look foolish.

EDIT (to reply): suit yourself

Super Igor · May 17, 2008, 10:33 AM // 10:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

You, sir, need to learn to read. Specifically, the quote you used yourself:

Don't try to argue for argument's sake. You'll look foolish.

No U!

Saying that FH! isnt worth taking over Impale at all means sayin that FH! is inferior to Impale, so gtfo.

Unreal Havoc · May 18, 2008, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

[crit agility] you have always...when you going out to MS/DB or to Shattersin you must have the enchie...so I dont have any idea why you have thrown it into optional....such a badness.

Anyone who doesn't run Critical Agility on their skillbar in PvE as standard better have a damn good reason not to or they just plain outright fail (Harsh? Yes... but defintiely true). +armour and maintainable IAS is godly for an Assassin.

Bobby2 · May 18, 2008, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

but hey! that leaves us with two PvE slots!

[skill]critical agility[/skill][skill]save yourselves[/skill]: you only have 1 slot left.

So to summarize this futile argument:

Everyone knows how you feel about [skill]finish him[/skill] by now. Some agree.

Me, I'd rather have a non-PvE slot for my DW: leaving room for [skill]you move like a dwarf[/skill] or [skill]great dwarf weapon[/skill] (the latter if I'm not the only PC melee in the party).

Super Igor · May 18, 2008, 05:46 PM // 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

[skill]critical agility[/skill][skill]save yourselves[/skill]: you only have 1 slot left.

You dont have to take SY!, it is not a must and you can do just fine without it. And i dont expirience any special feelings about FH!, just defending the skill from wrong statements.

Unreal Havoc · May 18, 2008, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

Also, your comment on my Assacaster beside of being childish....is so...so wrong. SSanc is like having SoR on you every time, it cuts damage by helf while you have 6-10 hp regen but it doesnt cost like SoR...It doesnt emply you taking a hero monk with SoR who would spend his poor energy on casting it on you, and assuming SSanc is recharged very fast by AP and that you dont need to hit yourt target wilsyt being uneffected negatively by blindness has no downside at all, making it Critical Agility for Assacasters.

In a nutshell.

Quote:

Ignoring your bad...statement about the ward i would remind you about it giving bonus damage to nearly everything flying out of it, including dancing daggers, sots, fh! and all the spells (including aoe) and atacks your party uses wile in it, and assuming it would be rechrged fast...very fast...you could not only not worry about it being recharged in time you need it but also mantain several copyes of it at once.

[build prof=A/A dead=12+1+1 crit=12+1][deadly haste][ebon battle standard of honor][Echo][dancing daggers][finish [email protected]][optional][optional][Resurrection Signet][/build]

I smell Dancing Daggers fun!!!

Super Igor · May 18, 2008, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

[build prof=A/A dead=12+1+1 crit=12+1][deadly haste][ebon battle standard of honor][Echo][dancing daggers][finish [email protected]][optional][optional][Resurrection Signet][/build]

I smell Dancing Daggers fun!!!

Whoo, Echo Daggerspam ftw.

Only thing I miss here is possibility to have several copies of EBSoHs around, but i dont think it is too much of a problem to be honest.

FlamingMetroid · May 19, 2008, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

[build prof=A/A dead=12+1+1 crit=12+1][deadly haste][ebon battle standard of honor][Echo][dancing daggers][finish [email protected]][optional][optional][Resurrection Signet][/build]

I smell Dancing Daggers fun!!!

needs moar [channeling] and [arcane echo] :3

petrorabbit · May 19, 2008, 05:33 AM // 05:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlamingMetroid

needs moar [channeling] and [arcane echo] :3

The build already has [Deadly Haste] so [Arcane Echo] isn't really needed since your recharge times are lowered.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

Learn the definition of irony and hypocrisy. "Narutard" is a term used to describe first generation sin players who derive their skillsets, mindset and playstyle from the Japanese anime "Naruto." The combination of "naru" and "tard" is used to designate those sin players who think that builds like the ones you post are effective... BELIEVE IT!

The following is a slight tangent, yet relative.

"Narutard" originated from what the naruto fans, who watch the japanese fansub and read the japanese manga, designated to the fanbois who only watch the english dub. This originated from the name of the anime, "Naruto" and "Retard" hence the word. Since Viz Media coudn't find a suitable translation for Naruto's catch phrase "Dattebayo", they turned it into what english anime audiances know as "Believe It". Hence someone who says "Believe It", pretty much reveals themselves as "Narutards".

Ironic isn't it?

Kaleban · May 20, 2008, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

Ok, he, Kaleban got himself proven wrong and hated by everyone and now he cant find anything better but to rage at me, pathetic.

Sorry to burst your ego centric bubble guy, but I'm not raging at you. I've not sworn or personally insulted you, just pointed out that from a strictly numbers pov, your builds as posted would not be able to do much of anything, not enough self-heal/defense to tank, not enough damage output to kill, its just a meh build.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

I do understand how frustrating, grrr, it is when you Kaleban have proven yourself to be just bad and understand that yourself, bad to an extent that all of your crap had to be removed, stating a fact, you got proved wrong, nobody agrees with what you say, happy? Hmm, no, you are not happy.....obviosly.....if you are not and can not hold all your shit in youreself, atleast dont splatter it all other the thread.

Again, hate to burst your lovely little bubble that protects you from reality, but our little quarrel was removed on BOTH sides, so if you're saying my stuff got removed because its wrong somehow, then you are also implicating your own material as incorrect.

Regardless, it wasn't build info that was removed it was the pointless flaming that you for some reason desperately need to continue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

What you say is a pointless omnom, that proves you even worse then you are, so stop making yourself look like an even bigger idiot, and just stop posting your shit here, harsh but true.

Harsh yes, true no. Your opinion, I'm sorry to say, does not seem to carry much weight, unless you're agreeing with everyone else, from where I sit it seems much of what you post is inflammatory and designed to start flame wars. Besides that, from what I've read, your "insight" is usually wildly off the mark, but that's my opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

Ohm nearly forgot, if you Kaleban, like to shadowstepping into a mob in front of everyone to take all the aggro on yourself then you are....just such a bad player, consider uninstalling.

As I've said countless times before, you wait until the aggro settles on the tank/designated player, then you ss in and kill, which doesn't cause aggro to move to you. If you understood how the system actually worked, you'd realize the error in your own analysis, but what can I do if you choose to remain ignorant?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

Yeah it doesnt matter, this why it is under *Off topic*, so why the hell you rage about it again?

Actually, this thread is under "The Campfire" sub-Assassin, Off-Topic is another forum, so you're wrong again as usual. Unless of course you're admitting to purposefully de-railing threads to start flame wars?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

Also, what argument? Whole thread is a big argument.

You misunderstand... again. In this context "argument" is a series of statements designed to prove a point or theory, not the act of arguing back and forth. What Bobby is saying is that all your personal accusations and insults that are somehow escaping the mod's notice are irrelevant to the discussion at hand, and only serve to disabuse the entire thread of any purpose whatsoever.

On a personal note Igor, insulting people and such and putting a smileyface afterwards is not what I would consider proper etiquette, just an FYI. Also, you might want to use more than "If you don't agree with my opinions, you are just... such a... bad player... horrible... abysmal" to back up your viewpoints. While I admit I could be as wrong as the next guy in my analysis of skills and their use, I at least try to bring factual information and logic to back up my points, which is a far cry from stating anyone who disagrees with you should uninstall or /ragequit.

petrorabbit · May 20, 2008, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

Sorry to burst your ego centric bubble guy, but I'm not raging at you. I've not sworn or personally insulted you, just pointed out that from a strictly numbers pov, your builds as posted would not be able to do much of anything, not enough self-heal/defense to tank, not enough damage output to kill, its just a meh build.

Actually, Kaleban, you did start throwing out the personal insults in the other thread first. Hence why I posted the following.

Quote:

Originally Posted by petrorabbit

Kaleban, this is not just directed at you but everyone who reads this forum.

If you can't have a civil debate/argument/discussion without having to resort to personal insults, dont' bother posting. Not only will you come across as immature, you will make yourself look like the insults you are directing.

As entertaining as this is, your back and forth squables are starting to sound like you're just repeating yourselves. Take it to PMs if you have to.

petrorabbit · May 21, 2008, 02:47 PM // 14:47

To get back on topic, this is what i think is best to bring almost everywhere, posted earlier in this thread .

[build=MoebiusBlossom;OwFi0xjMVm5/0wcwAAcmVDK6BA]

The optional slot can be used for:

[Critical Eye] for energy managment, and sustaining MS/DB and CA

[Critical Strike] for an on-demand critical. More reliable than CE, but can disrupt your MS/DB cycle.

[Finish Him] for a finishing move, that does not interupt your cycle, but lacks spammability.

[Twisting Fangs] for spammable dw at the cost of disrupting your cycle.

[You move like a dwarf] for a fast interupt/KD with added cripple. Will not KD creatures considered "giant" (non species).

I think the shattersin discussion brought up a good point that this build definately needs an unblockable startup to remove blocking stances so you will be able to get mileage out of your MS/DB spam. Assassin's remedy is great for dealing with blind primarly, but is also good for helping you stay alive in the pocket.

[Wild Blow] was also discussed, but it will definatly mess up your SY cycle. It will help maintain CA, and remove blocking stances, independant of your attack chain. If you do choose Wild Blow, you can change your lead and offhand to [Unsuspecting Strike] + [Golden Fang Strike], or [Golden Phoenix Strike] + another dual of your choosing.

So these are the options all thrown on the table that I think are the most efficient. If you think there is another option that deserves to be here, don't just post why, but also why it is better than the options named. Even though some of these options are personal preference, there is no denying that each are efficient and can be used throughout the whole game, not just special circumstance.

Now lets discuss this with civility, and leave the insults, questions about another player's experience, and personal attacks at the door.

moko · May 21, 2008, 10:41 PM // 22:41

i strongly suggest you guys to stop & find out about the so called private messages. :>

Super Igor · May 22, 2008, 10:53 AM // 10:53

I'd clen this thrad up a bit more to be honest, a lot of shit is still stuck in this thread.

Anyway, Id say for the defenitive best PvE sin bar in terms of verstility and effectiveness MS/DB is a clear winner. Shattersin is good at what it does and can be usefull in certain areas but running it all of the time might not be such a good idea after all.

For survivors it always Critical Barrage, unless you are good at kiting and have a good sense of butt, e.g. you can feel when things are going to get bad and it is time to get out of the frontline.