Curse

fireflyry · Aug 25, 2008, 02:50 PM // 14:50

Yeah I think your right.

petrorabbit · Aug 25, 2008, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhamia Darigaz

it sounds like you think izzy shouldn't make gvg his top priority when balancing skills.
due to the fact that balance is most important in competitive gameplay and gvg is the most competitive format in gw, i have to disagree with you.

Sounds like you're assuming. I think its fine to balance around gvg, what i don't agree with are the knee-jerk "fixes" he's been notorious for. For the record, shadowsteps have had a negative impact because they have not been implemented correctly, which blizzard has done successfully in WoW.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

Check out the effect Stalkers had on the City of Heroes PvP meta with the "stealth" mechanic or WoW back in the day when 50% of the PvP meta were stun-lock Rogues.

The WoW rogue was not broken because of stun-lock, the WoW rogue was broken because their damage did not scale with gear. When everybody was just hitting level 60, and Molton Core was your best gear, rogues could easily hit 1k on clothies with a 5pt eviscerate, using a starting dagger. Average life was 2-3k at most with end-game gear back then. When more gear was added, and end-game gear came from Blackwing's Lair or Ahn Qiraj, rogue damage got left behind. It didn't matter that your dagger was now epic, your eviscerate would still hit for 1k. Hence why blizzard made rogue abilities scale better with gear now.

Tyla · Aug 25, 2008, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by petrorabbit

Sounds like you're assuming. I think its fine to balance around gvg, what i don't agree with are the knee-jerk "fixes" he's been notorious for. For the record, shadowsteps have had a negative impact because they have not been implemented correctly, which blizzard has done successfully in WoW.

WoW is a different game, and I can't say I've played it much, but judging from what I have seen on it not having a capacity on the amount of skills you can take is retarded.

petrorabbit · Aug 25, 2008, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

WoW is a different game, and I can't say I've played it much, but judging from what I have seen on it not having a capacity on the amount of skills you can take is retarded.

Sure, you're entitled to your opinion from your limited experience.

Indeed, they are very different games. WoW PvP is much more intense. Some high-end pvp'ers can't afford to lose to keep their sponsorships. They have to keep their arena ratings high to qualify for tournaments like World Wide Invitational, Major League Gaming, and just recently Intel Extreme Masters.

I'm not aware of many high end guilds in GW having to worry about those same things.

-Lotus- · Aug 25, 2008, 04:56 PM // 16:56

wow PvP is gear-based and completely unbalanced. please stop comparing it to GW.

petrorabbit · Aug 25, 2008, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Lotus-

wow PvP is gear-based and completely unbalanced. please stop comparing it to GW.

Once again you are entitled to your opinion from your limited experience. The lucrative tournaments are all set to use pvp gear, so basically, everyone is on an even playing field in terms of gear. Class balance is another story and GW suffers from the same.

Its funny how PvE'ers get chided for commenting on PvP when they have little experience of it. What's ironic is how those people are guilty of the same thing when they comment on WoW.

Oh well, I'm pretty much done pointing out irony. Such a losing battle...

Tyla · Aug 25, 2008, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by petrorabbit

Once again you are entitled to your opinion from your limited experience. The lucrative tournaments are all set to use pvp gear, so basically, everyone is on an even playing field in terms of gear. Class balance is another story and GW suffers from the same.

Its funny how PvE'ers get chided for commenting on PvP when they have little experience of it. What's ironic is how those same people do the same when they comment on WoW.

Oh well, I'm pretty much done pointing out irony. Such a losing battle...

Okay, how will you make Shadowstepping a good mechanic in a game where positioning is a big aspect?

Bowstring Badass · Aug 25, 2008, 08:35 PM // 20:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Lotus-

wow PvP is gear-based and completely unbalanced. please stop comparing it to GW.

Low level PvP is not gear-based. Everything else is.

petrorabbit · Aug 25, 2008, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Okay, how will you make Shadowstepping a good mechanic in a game where positioning is a big aspect?

The short answer would be to make each shadowstep half-range. The long answer would include changing a lot of the assassin class which I don't have time to get into. Since GW2 is around the corner, it is too late to make any major core changes. I'm sure GW2 would have learned from everything GW did wrong and correct it by then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowstring Badass

Low level PvP is not gear-based. Everything else is.

As stated before, the cash-prize tournaments are set so every participant uses PvP gear. Everyone is on the same level, only differing in talent builds, and skill. In the game itself, when PvE gear is brought into arena, that's when there are issues because of higher dps weapons balanced to deal with high level raid content.

SOF · Aug 25, 2008, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Quote:

Make all shadowsteps fail 50% with <4 crit strikes

Signed :P

But seriously, great idea and I think it's great, gets rid of all the shitty gimmick builds and gives Assassin's back what they should have.

Bowstring Badass · Aug 25, 2008, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by .Cookie.

Why would you use AoD when you can you Backbreaker?

Because backbreaker sins can blow me. If you hit backbreaker with an interrupt say bye bye to your chain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOF

Signed :P

But seriously, great idea and I think it's great, gets rid of all the shitty gimmick builds and gives Assassin's back what they should have.

Nooooo. Assassins when they were buffed to holy hell were beasts. Instagib=bad for game. Making decent elites bad=bad for game.

Imo the shadowstep fails if 4 or less crit is a good idea.

Bobby2 · Aug 25, 2008, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowstring Badass

Because backbreaker sins can blow me. If you hit backbreaker with an interrupt say bye bye to your chain.

[[Distracting Shot] and the likes take the power out of EVERY chain ever thought of, so stop using this nonsense as an argument.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowstring Badass

Nooooo. Assassins when they were buffed to holy hell were beasts. Instagib=bad for game. Making decent elites bad=bad for game.

Imo the shadowstep fails if 4 or less crit is a good idea.

Assassins pre-nerf SSs were quite instagib still (A/W SP Trampling comes to mind). Make up your mind already.

Tyla · Aug 26, 2008, 12:19 AM // 00:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

[[Distracting Shot] and the likes take the power out of EVERY chain ever thought of, so stop using this nonsense as an argument.

Now, if only I was Kurzick when we were AB'ing, instead of Luxon...

FlamingMetroid · Aug 26, 2008, 03:10 AM // 03:10

hay gaiz, are we having an off-topic discussion that I'm missing +1's on?

Bobby2 · Aug 26, 2008, 03:35 AM // 03:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Now, if only I was Kurzick when we were AB'ing, instead of Luxon...

Hey, I can -sort of- rebound. It's all about the Deep Wound baby.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlamingMetroid

hay gaiz, are we having an off-topic discussion that I'm missing +1's on?

Not anymore.

snaek · Aug 26, 2008, 04:58 AM // 04:58

3/4s aftercast of shadowsteps r very annoying

i'd rather see them get a 1s cast time with no aftercast instead

so they can expect a spike to occur
they kno that your goin to shadowstep
but there is still the element of surprise as to who or where

heck, give it a huge shadow sfx and big sound to make it even more obvious

but plz remove aftercast

making shadowsteps fail unless crit 5 or more...
i like it and i dun like it
i dun mind sin secondaries shadow stepping
prob is that they dun require any pt investment at all

who really uses [death's charge] primarily for the heal?

reason most non-sins use [death's charge] over [dark prison]
is energy cost and no need to spec in the attrib line

make [death's charge] require 5 shadow arts to work
this makes it harder for a secondary sin without runes
but still gives them the ability to shadowstep if they wish
also, increase en cost to 10en

[shadow prison] and [dark prison] r too similar imo
make [dark prison] cost 15en
and lower [black lotus strike] to 5en while ur at it

teh problem wit [shadow prison] sins is not jus the fact that they shadowstep
but it has one of the best attack chains out there
i mean u could bring a hex like [hidden caltrops] and its still one of the best attack chains u can have
(its only missing some [blades of steel] luv)

nerf [black mantis thrust] or [jungle strike]
many ppl dun use it for the snare...but to trigger [trampling ox]
and 1/2s activation attack skill followed by a kd is hax
kd either needs to come out slower (remove 1/2 activation)
and/or make them work harder for the condition to be met (remove cripple effect)

move the non-atrib shadowsteps [aura of displacement] and [shadow walk] to crit strike and require same 5 or more

so no more shove spike and teh likes
(tho i havent faced one in teh longest time)
the way it is rite now u can still use [holy strike] with [shadow walk] with no disadvantage

in fact, since the 3/4s aftercast nerf
i've been playin around with [shadow walk] a lot more
[iron palm] and [palm strike] seems obvious
but i've been messin around wit more obscure choices like [grasping earth]

Trinity Fire Angel · Aug 26, 2008, 05:19 AM // 05:19

i am glad that shadowstep got nerfed cause it makes it sooo much more fun when you Shadow Prison some noob monk in RA. they just are not used to it and the longer it stays nerfed... the more i am going to use keep using it and the easier it is to pwn noobs.

Boba Chick · Aug 26, 2008, 05:32 AM // 05:32

nerf [ride the lightning] too plz

Kyosuki · Aug 27, 2008, 07:11 AM // 07:11

I'v finally figured out a "OK" build,I think it needs a lil bit more spike thought

Luminarus · Aug 27, 2008, 10:01 AM // 10:01

Needs res imo, also change lead. Unblockable is good, but more + damage is better since the rest of the chain will be blocked if they are blocking.

Also no DW on a spike is bad. I will still prefer to run this combo with AoD:

[AoD][Mark of Instability][Golden Phoenix Strike][Twisting Fangs][Falling Lotus][Blades Of Steel][Feigned Neutrality][Resurrection Signet]

But it doesnt get past AoD's aftercast. Rather then aftercast imo, shadowsteps should all be a hex. Ends after 2 seconds, and teleports to target foe. Gives MORE warning then the after cast, but if the monk isnt observant, or its an un smart team then it fullfils its aims. Or 5 Crit Strikes req, or change to a fast run at target foe, which ive suggested on other threads.