Curse

Bobby2 · Nov 05, 2008, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

Also:

build

^this? It might be better actually although it lacks kd and doesnt have good enough ims and snare.

I've actually tried this yesterday, just with [assassin's remedy] instead of [natural healing]

since [attacker's insight] wears off before you get to [golden phoenix strike].

D'OH!

And no; it doesn't have enough spiking power, [golden skull strike] not having bonus damage screws it over, Daze will always be good for ganking though it's ridiculously short... I'd still take Haze over this any day

lord_shar · Nov 05, 2008, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Here are several variants based on AoD / Whirling Charge...

The first five skills:
[signet of pious restraint][aura of displacement][iron palm][whirling charge][falling spider]

For condition spike: [twisting fangs][signet of deadly corruption]
For KD-disruption: [trampling ox][impale]

Eigth Slot = res sig

Dagger Mastery = 12, Deadly Arts =12, Critical Strikes = 8, Wind Prayers = 7
Equipment: full raidiant armor, 1 rune of atunement, +5 energy +30 life non-zealous daggers

I haven't clocked the #2 variant yet, but #1 can score an 8-11 sec kill times vs. the Master of Damage depending on luck.

This set-up is NOT cheap... it requires 38+ base energy to consistently use. However, it has a shadow-step hit/run, 9 seconds IAS/movement speed, cripple, condition degen, and 1-2 knockdowns depending the skill variant selected.

Enjoy...

Luminarus · Nov 06, 2008, 02:00 AM // 02:00

8-11 second kills are pretty crap. If you dont kill them in 6 seconds then theres no point. Hell, 6 seconds is incredibly slow as it is.

lord_shar · Nov 06, 2008, 02:07 AM // 02:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luminarus

8-11 second kills are pretty crap. If you dont kill them in 6 seconds then theres no point. Hell, 6 seconds is incredibly slow as it is.

I agree, but the master of damage seems to start the clock from the moment your first skill hits him, so his metrics seem slightly off. EDIT: He has 590 Health, 30 energy and 60 armor according to wiki.

Can you please post a screen shot of a sub-6 second sin kill using the Master of Damage as the target? Something like this...

Based on the above #'s, the sin has to hit 118 dps to score a 5-sec kill. The best I could hit in the above tests were 70 dps over 5 seconds with the pictured skill set.

Super Igor · Nov 06, 2008, 10:48 AM // 10:48

I dont like your skill set, besides sadow steps have aftercast now, and thats makes you think if you want to shadow step or simply run to your target, both are eually predictable/prottable now.

lord_shar · Nov 06, 2008, 11:08 AM // 11:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

I dont like your skill set, besides sadow steps have aftercast now, and thats makes you think if you want to shadow step or simply run to your target, both are eually predictable/prottable now.

That's fine, but please note that none of the pictured skill buttons are seriously affected by aftercast. EDIT: Attack skills and stances have zero delay, and iron-palm vs. a crippled target has a pretty good chance of doing an opening KD.

PS: I posted the build above in trying to stay with the OP's original prototype. This is just another interpretation and nothing more.

Luminarus · Nov 06, 2008, 11:16 AM // 11:16

I dont use sin much anymore, but ill try next chance I get.

Luminarus · Nov 06, 2008, 11:27 AM // 11:27

Stupid double post ><... anywho, got the screenshot. 5 seconds flat.

lord_shar · Nov 06, 2008, 11:52 AM // 11:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luminarus

Stupid double post ><... anywho, got the screenshot. 5 seconds flat.

Good pic. Not practical for kiters, but it demonstrates the requested DPS.

EDIT: I just ran a similar test build and got these results...

Something I just noticed was that shove allowed the first two dagger attacks to skip their animation delays completely yet hit with full damage. Is this a known bug?

moriz · Nov 06, 2008, 01:41 PM // 13:41

shove does not have an aftercast, which allows the next dagger attack to execute immediately after shove finishes. it shouldn't affect the next one after that.

Super Igor · Nov 06, 2008, 04:55 PM // 16:55

I was thinking about this:

[flail][unsuspecting strike][shove][falling spider][falling lotus strike][twisting fangs][dash][resurrection signet]

You can fit both spider and lotus under one shove y'know.

lord_shar · Nov 06, 2008, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

shove does not have an aftercast, which allows the next dagger attack to execute immediately after shove finishes. it shouldn't affect the next one after that.

EDIT: I did further testing and confirmed the above. The animations were present but shortened due to IAS.

Are there any other builds without shove that can execute a 5 sec or faster MoD-kill?

lord_shar · Nov 06, 2008, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

I was thinking about this:

[flail][unsuspecting strike][shove][falling spider][falling lotus strike][twisting fangs][dash][resurrection signet]

You can fit both spider and lotus under one shove y'know.

How does the above handle runners with snares?

X Cytherea X · Nov 06, 2008, 07:52 PM // 19:52

^it has [dash] for runners. it cant do anything about snares or antimelee.

id definitely replace [unsuspecting strike] with one of these...
[malicious strike] / [thrill of victory] / [wild blow] / [signet of malice]

Bobby2 · Nov 06, 2008, 08:58 PM // 20:58

lolwut. / just lol. / decent utility, might not wanna run flail. / the condition you should be worried about is Blind, gl @ making it work.

Super Igor · Nov 06, 2008, 09:10 PM // 21:10

It works, not that it works really well but fitting two on kd skills in one kd is fun.

Luminarus · Nov 06, 2008, 10:37 PM // 22:37

That only works if they havent moved at all in the 3/4 cast of shove. I dont rely on that though, in mine unless they have IMS you can catch them with falling spider. (Can swap in tiger for flail if you want, I just grabbed flail for that scenario because it lasted longer and had to be cast before shove because it disables them.

X Cytherea X · Nov 07, 2008, 11:28 AM // 11:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

lolwut. / just lol. / decent utility, might not wanna run flail. / the condition you should be worried about is Blind, gl @ making it work.

use after twisting for a nice finisher / on second thought it sucks / yeah / what about other conditions like the ones that can kill u

[unsuspecting strike] is 10e and its conditional is often not met in the heat of battle

Luminarus · Nov 07, 2008, 11:55 AM // 11:55

Unsuspecting should deal damage if hitting target in the back, so its more "unsuspecting"... the 90% hp deal is useless anywhere. Useful one time every battle, makes a skills pointless.

petrorabbit · Nov 07, 2008, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Cytherea X

snip...

what about other conditions like the ones that can kill u

[Signet of Malice] is too conditional, since it requires your target to have a condition on them. The point bobby was making is that if you have blind on you, you won't be able to stack conditions on your target since you will be most likely missing. Then you won't be able to meet the condition of Signet of Malice to remove those conditions that will supposedly kill you.

The only conditions that will kill you will degen you. If you're more worried about degen than you are about blind, then take [Shadow Refuge] to counter that degen, and have a self heal on the side. Personally, I'd rather eat burning before I eat a blind.

Even though its 10 energy, I still prefer [Assassin's Remedy]. Its much more reliable since your attacks are not required to hit, just to use an attack skill to shed a conditions. Even if your blinded, it will get removed before your attack. Although its an enchantment, its both a pro and con since it can get stripped yet meet the condition for things like [Golden Phoenix Strike].