Curse

Horace Slughorn · Nov 27, 2008, 04:04 PM // 16:04

[QUOTE=moriz;4373446]
it's also really ironic that you claim that i "run around looking for 1v1", when i started the game by capping 3 shrines and taking out any target that's of any threat to my fire nuker. by that point, going off to pick off stragglers is exact what i (and you) should be doing.
QUOTE]

Oh my bad you were totally with your team for the first ~30sec of the match, awesome work.

I think I'll just respectfully disagree with you that sins are supposed to abandon their group and hunt stragglers. I always thought AB was about team work, but you claim that is being tactically inept.

I guess my confusion at this video arose from the title of the thread. Your description says it is just for laughs, but the title is "how to play sin".

Oh and Im sure Tyla is a trend-setter, but (s)he's definately not the only mesmer who uses distortion. I for one always through it up, especially when i see an errant sin looking for a spike target

Daisuko · Nov 27, 2008, 04:20 PM // 16:20

[QUOTE=Horace Slughorn;4373572]

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

it's also really ironic that you claim that i "run around looking for 1v1", when i started the game by capping 3 shrines and taking out any target that's of any threat to my fire nuker. by that point, going off to pick off stragglers is exact what i (and you) should be doing.
QUOTE]

Oh my bad you were totally with your team for the first ~30sec of the match, awesome work.

I think I'll just respectfully disagree with you that sins are supposed to abandon their group and hunt stragglers. I always thought AB was about team work, but you claim that is being tactically inept.

I guess my confusion at this video arose from the title of the thread. Your description says it is just for laughs, but the title is "how to play sin".

Oh and Im sure Tyla is a trend-setter, but (s)he's definately not the only mesmer who uses distortion. I for one always through it up, especially when i see an errant sin looking for a spike target

You don't HAVE to be with your team, you can break off to go solo cap if you can take down a shrine on your own. (Which he can't) Or I suppose, kill solo cappers. However, anyone with half a brain will notice a sin running towards them. Also, Dagger sin < Warrior.

Tyla · Nov 27, 2008, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horace Slughorn

Oh and Im sure Tyla is a trend-setter, but (s)he's definately not the only mesmer who uses distortion. I for one always through it up, especially when i see an errant sin looking for a spike target

Actually, I'm an Oldschool player who runs oldschool bars. Skill changes... changed some though.

Quote:

Anyways, distortion + empathy > you.

Empathy > all melee only if they kill themselves with it. If they kill themselves with it. With an Assassin chain, it won't kill the Assassin. Unless the Assassin decides to autoattack himself to death. Distortion is barely ever used, but block stances > all physical based damage anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby

KDlock, an IAS would screw it up.

Just use your HoTO at a different time, or go straight for the deep wound, although ineffective for the most part.

I would do some awesome duo Shovesinning with you again Moriz, but I have no keyboard for my (main) computer anymore because it brokened on me.

Unreal Havoc · Nov 27, 2008, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faer

[FONT="Book Antiqua"]Can't. Dash is disabled due to Shove, which means if you want to get away, you just have to turn around and run for the next 6-7 seconds without an IMS getting pounded on from behind (inb4 surprise buttsecks).

Quote:

What do you do for the next 18-20 seconds?

So use it after 6-7 seconds, running in the complete opposite direction you cast Shadow Walk from. Just hope you don't get crippled...

You could also have an Elementalist run Make Haste?

Faer · Nov 27, 2008, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

Just hope you don't get crippled...

I suppose hoping you don't get crippled is fine and dandy, considering in order to succeed with this build, you have to base a lot of things on hope. Hope your HotO works, hope they don't get hit with a heal or a prot of practically any sort, hope you don't get blocked, hope you're facing an idiot, hope that...

Yeah. Mediocrity. Amusing mediocrity, but mediocrity nonetheless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

You could also have an Elementalist run Make Haste?

Or you could run a better bar. ¯\(°_o)/¯

Running any bar that requires a lot of different people to bring/do/be a number of various things is generally a bad move. Synergy and skill are key, utter reliance and dependence are not. This Shovesin sits fairly close to the middle of the bar, but closer to the side of the latter category than the former.

Unreal Havoc · Nov 27, 2008, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faer

I suppose hoping you don't get crippled is fine and dandy, considering in order to succeed with this build, you have to base a lot of things on hope. Hope your HotO works, hope they don't get hit with a heal or a prot of practically any sort, hope you don't get blocked, hope you're facing an idiot, hope that...

Yeah. Mediocrity. Amusing mediocrity, but mediocrity nonetheless.

Or you could run a better bar. ¯\(°_o)/¯

Or you could just learn to pick your battles more carefully and not run around trying to spike anyone and everyone.

Quote:

Running any bar that requires a lot of different people to bring/do/be a number of various things is generally a bad move. Synergy and skill are key, utter reliance and dependence are not. This Shovesin sits fairly close to the middle of the bar, but closer to the side of the latter category than the former.

You could say that about most sin spikes nowadays considering all it takes is one well placed stance block to mess them up. The thing is the bar doesn't require all those thing to work, and having team mates that can support a build isn't generally a bad idea. Especially Rigor Mortis as it allows better bar compression for the Assassin along with a better freedom of the secondary proffession. With that said, nowadays I don't bother with the sinspikes and concentrate more on dealing with the common counters thrown up, while causing disruption behind enemy lines, along with dealing constant damage over time.

I think the thing you have to remember is the build was being used in AB, which is hardly a hardcore PvP gaming enviroment.

moriz · Nov 27, 2008, 06:09 PM // 18:09

[QUOTE=Horace Slughorn;4373572]

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

it's also really ironic that you claim that i "run around looking for 1v1", when i started the game by capping 3 shrines and taking out any target that's of any threat to my fire nuker. by that point, going off to pick off stragglers is exact what i (and you) should be doing.
QUOTE]

Oh my bad you were totally with your team for the first ~30sec of the match, awesome work.

I think I'll just respectfully disagree with you that sins are supposed to abandon their group and hunt stragglers. I always thought AB was about team work, but you claim that is being tactically inept.

I guess my confusion at this video arose from the title of the thread. Your description says it is just for laughs, but the title is "how to play sin".

Oh and Im sure Tyla is a trend-setter, but (s)he's definately not the only mesmer who uses distortion. I for one always through it up, especially when i see an errant sin looking for a spike target

more like the first 2:30. by that time, my group had picked up a bunch of other teammates and are on a path to the epic mob vs mob battle. i merely had the foresight to break off and start picking off the inevitable stragglers. that is actually teamwork at its finest (or the finest you'll likely see in AB), because me tagging along for the aforementioned epic mob vs mob battle would be highly unproductive.

snaek · Nov 27, 2008, 06:49 PM // 18:49

well it seems better than the 1st vid
i was hopin for a different skillbar tho
not a big fan of shove

@the stayin with team comment:
the point is that u have to be where u will be the most productive
believe it or not
that will not always be with ur team

in fact, of all the game modes
ab encourages the most splitting
(i'd say hb 2nd, and then maybe gvg 3rd)

i mean u start out split rite from the start 4-4-4
theres no reason it shouldnt change to 5-4-3 or 3-3-4-2, etc etc

sin in its current state is not an effective shrine npc killer
if u try to kill npcs as a sin
u r being inneffective

tho... one exception is the solo monk shrine
i tend to solo cap those when the opportunity arises

@the distortion/empathy comment:
sure if a sin fails a combo, then he has a long downtime
its tru

but an important ability for a sin is scouting a good target
and having perfect timing to strike when hes vulnerable

if u attack without any regard
u failed not because the enemy has distortion
but because u chose to attack an enemy that has distortion

besides
theres a difference between losing a battle and losing a war

Faer · Nov 27, 2008, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

the build was being used in AB, which is hardly a hardcore PvP gaming enviroment.

"It's okay to kill a man as long as you do it while you're in prison" follows that same line of logic. Murder is murder, no matter where it happens, just as mediocrity is mediocrity, regardless of the environment. Things are what they are.

Anyway, the thread title is misleading. "How to play Assassin" is read as "The best way to play Assassin" by the typical Campfire populous. A more appropriate title would be "How to play Shovesin in AB".

moriz · Nov 27, 2008, 07:54 PM // 19:54

the title is appropriate, because what i'm trying to get across is the mindset of playing a sin, which carries over just about any assassin build, across any arena.

ensoriki · Nov 27, 2008, 10:51 PM // 22:51

ello Moriz.

Should've showed more than Shovesin.

To those who are all "Stay with your group".... IMO.
Most groups slow me down, the only time Im actually in a group is when that scrimmage is already engaged....I hate being seen with people, because if a group scrimmage ever happens, when the guy is cycling through his targets, he finds the assassin...next thing I know im hexed like mad >.>

Instead I could stay on the outskirts, let whatever is going to happen, happen, and just come in a bit later, and avoid actually putting myself in serious risk >.>

Thats just for AB >.>

Stealth Bomberman · Nov 28, 2008, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

Instead I could stay on the outskirts, let whatever is going to happen, happen, and just come in a bit later, and avoid actually putting myself in serious risk >.>

same

12 characters

ensoriki · Nov 28, 2008, 01:38 AM // 01:38

Although Im not a fan of shove sin.

I find Shovesin is down for to long, and theres not enough for me to do.
I remember Yanman had a build where it was
Leaping mantis-Exhausting-Moebius-Critical strike/death blossom...I love that build...toss in Wild blow or even Blinding powder....I'm a utility kinda guy >.>

What I agree with Faer about is the downtime, I hate large downtime builds, because well, they bore me, and are too Hit or miss.
Though you seemed to of done it well Moriz.

X Cytherea X · Nov 28, 2008, 02:02 AM // 02:02

Quote:

the title is appropriate, because what i'm trying to get across is the mindset of playing a sin, which carries over just about any assassin build, across any arena.

it's an overgeneralization, cuz not every player or build plays that way nor would want to.

had some potential at the start, but there was a long boring section in the middle, and then instant lose when MCR came on.

Celeborn10 · Nov 28, 2008, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Cytherea X

it's an overgeneralization, cuz not every player or build plays that way nor would want to.

had some potential at the start, but there was a long boring section in the middle, and then instant lose when MCR came on.

Partially true. To be honest, I think I learned more from the first than this one. I'm trying to get rid of the W and S keys but as a Counterstrike/DoD player it is rather hard. Maybe if I think of it more as an RTS like BFME I can get mouse clicks down.

I think playstyle is not quite the right word either. The videos show more of a mentality for playing Assassin ie kite, run, skirmish and avoid trouble. Most of this can be applied to other classes but the Sin is unique because of it's relatively low Armor as a melee. This hampers its use as a frontliner and tends to lead to skirmish builds heavy on damage and/or conditions. It can be used as a frontliner but it will be comparatively squishy (unless Critical Defenses is up and not stripped) to a Warrior, Dervish or R/D.

As for the build, personally I'd go with the oldschool AoD Shocksin for a more repeatable chain but the Shovesin is just about as resilient. I think Moriz stated in the other thread that the purpose of chosing Shovesin was that it required good play to make a difference as opposed to more optimal builds.

Bobby2 · Nov 28, 2008, 05:05 AM // 05:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

Leaping mantis-Exhausting-Moebius-Critical strike/death blossom...I love that build...toss in Wild blow or even Blinding powder....I'm a utility kinda guy >.>

Moebius Breeze build, died with Shadow Walk.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celeborn10

As for the build, personally I'd go with the oldschool AoD Shocksin for a more repeatable chain but the Shovesin is just about as resilient. I think Moriz stated in the other thread that the purpose of chosing Shovesin was that it required good play to make a difference as opposed to more optimal builds.

If only AoD didn't have aftercast.

lord_shar · Nov 28, 2008, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

Moebius Breeze build, died with Shadow Walk.

If only AoD didn't have aftercast.

Are any shadow-steps aftercast-free?

I still find shadow-steps much more effective than running up to the target... they rarely ever react in time before an opening knock-down attack followed by a thorough beat-down.

moriz · Nov 28, 2008, 07:49 PM // 19:49

shadow walk on the shove spiker is effectively aftercast-free. there's also shadow fang, but it's far more restrictive. it basically locks your elite to glyph of renewal if you want to build around it.

snaek · Nov 28, 2008, 08:28 PM // 20:28

glyph of renewal shadow fang spike isnt too bad

but i prefer it for ra

the recharge time is really nice
u can pull off spikes one after the other really quik

so u can literally jus spike a target for the hell of it
cuz ur next spike will be ready in ~10-12s

the downside is the lower dmg and less shutdown of course
and lack of ias is lame too
so its harder to guarantee a spike kill in split situations