Curse

Anori Sakaii · Dec 30, 2008, 12:44 AM // 00:44

Is there a glitch or a bug?

I can't find out what's wrong.

So, I like to farm in TOPK in HM. I prefer A/E but with sliver I have energy problems and will die after 4 fear me's. I do not understand it because I have 61 energy. I do like Perma-Daggers, but it is way tooo slow. Unless you go with orders and a monk with Strength and Honor. My first perma build I used was A/Me, the same one to clear Chambers in UW. So today, I tried out that build because I never had energy problems with it. At first it was going good, I'd kill some of the Terrorwebs and the Banished Dream Riders. It would be pretty hard to time. But a few times, something would go wrong with archane echo. I can't exactly recall what it did, but it may have like recharged too slow or something. And earlier that day, I was in a PUG for a TOPK clear. There was 1 A/Me (edit- rest were A/E's), he too was complaining that there was a bug.

I am not a noob perma.

Thank you guys for any help that you can give, or say if the same thing is happening to you.

~Anori Sakaii

here to troll · Dec 30, 2008, 02:20 AM // 02:20

perma, and problems, should never be in the same sentence, last time i checked it was the easy button.

However regarding your problem, if your using a staff, it can cuase half casting time, making the first or second shadow form recharge faster, thus messing up your timing.

dasmitchies · Dec 30, 2008, 02:30 AM // 02:30

A/me can no longer use arcane echo to keep up shadowform. The recharge time and duration has changed for shadowform and no longer works for mesmer secondary. A/e is the only class combo that can manage SF without cons. As for the energy pressure? That was on purpose. ANET wanted to make speedclears for UW much harder. All they really did was make everyone run sins LOL.

Tom Swift · Dec 30, 2008, 03:58 AM // 03:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by dasmitchies

A/me can no longer use arcane echo to keep up shadowform. The recharge time and duration has changed for shadowform and no longer works for mesmer secondary. A/e is the only class combo that can manage SF without cons.

Timewise A/Me can still maintain at 16 Shadow arts as long as nothing slows cast times down (such as nature's renewal). I don't like the build enough to use it that much so other than trying out the timing I haven't done much with it.

I tried ToPK with the A/E build tonight. I have not done that since the most recent nerf. It is still doable (at least through level 2 where I ran out of time) but seems to require a much more conservative style of play. You have to be careful not to agro too many grasps at once, use zealous weapons and maybe throw critical agility into the mix, hide energy for emergencies, and make sure you are attacking the grasp taking damage from sliver so that no other use "fear me." As long as I did that, I did not seem to have too much trouble. So. still doable but a bit challenging.

And i would say the answer about the staff would be correct. The half recharge time would cause you to cast the echoed SF a little too soon so that you would not have enough time to allow echo to recharge. It's only a 17% difference (about 3 or 4 seconds) so you probably would not realize you had received the boost. But the timing is crucial. You only have a second or two leeway. So casting the echoed SF even a couple of seconds too early would make it very difficult to finish recharging echo in time. That would be a problem that would not be noticed with the A/E build since DP and GoS already cut recharge to the %50 maximum.

dasmitchies · Dec 30, 2008, 05:36 AM // 05:36

A/Me CANNOT maintain Shadowform without cons. Arcane echo recharges to slowly versus SF to manage the chain now.

Luminarus · Dec 30, 2008, 11:05 AM // 11:05

Half the people say its possible, the other half dont. Personally I dont know, or care but i wish someone would post proof one way or the other for it.

Unreal Havoc · Dec 30, 2008, 11:07 AM // 11:07

At 16 Shadow Arts you can maintain Shadow Form as A/Me without consets. The timing is different, and allows absolutely no room for mistakes, but it is definitely doable.

This image shows the exact time you have to cast the echoed copy of Shadow Form to maintain it at 16 Shadow Arts with a Staff that has an Enchantments last 20% longer modification, and no conset.

As soon as Arcane Echo is recharged recast it followed by the recharged Shadow Form.

As someone else said having the HSR mod on your staff can mess you up if you're inexperienced so try to take a staff without one until you have more experience maintaining Shadow Form.

Dzjudz · Dec 30, 2008, 12:16 PM // 12:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

try to take a staff without one

Good luck finding a staff without an HSR mod

.

Tom Swift · Dec 30, 2008, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luminarus

Half the people say its possible, the other half dont. Personally I dont know, or care but i wish someone would post proof one way or the other for it.

there you go - this one was taken just after casting the recharged arcane echo. I hit Prt Scrn and SF at same time. Notice the old SF is still just barely up - just enough time to hit the new one.

Although, the fact that the OP had already stated he had used the build and was simply having occasional trouble (as has been pointed out, with the staff) should be pretty good evidence that SF is maintainable with A/Me and that the build is still functional.

faraaz · Dec 30, 2008, 06:11 PM // 18:11

I'm currently uploading a video to youtube (400 MB ftl) which demonstrates exactly how you maintain perma SF with arcane echo post Dec. 11th update.

Pending this update, I'd just like to say, everyone who says that its not possible just fail at perma.

As for the OP, the vid will adequately demonstrate how to maintain it perfectly...but in the meantime, all I can say is, hit the echo'd SF when the first SF gets to bottom left corner of the first SF's icon...

FengShuiDove · Dec 30, 2008, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by dasmitchies

A/me can no longer use arcane echo to keep up shadowform. The recharge time and duration has changed for shadowform and no longer works for mesmer secondary. A/e is the only class combo that can manage SF without cons. As for the energy pressure? That was on purpose. ANET wanted to make speedclears for UW much harder. All they really did was make everyone run sins LOL.

Your post is wrong. Plain and simple. A/Me can run Perma with the current duration and 60 second recharge. So you fail, and you're one of the countless masses that can't do the simple math of recharges and echo'd casts.

OT: Your problem is that you're using a staff with HSR 20% (spells). You should be casting the echo'd copy when the bar of your current Shadow Form is about 1/4. For me, this means casting the echo'd copy when the recharge hits the bottom corner (left or right, I can't remember since it's been about a week) on normal recharge, and just above the halfway mark on the left side on Halved recharge.

I figured we'd see this problem when people returned to A/Me Perma (or went there for the first time because they're posers), because it actually requires thought to maintain.

P.S. I hope they revert it to the way it was before the buff. 21s duration, 60s recharge, no damage reduction. Just the way it was. Makes Perma an art, not a commonplace tactic.

P.P.S. At 16 SA, SF is 22s, 26s with +20% enchanting. DP brings recharge from 45s to 30s. Since AE holds SF for 20 seconds, the perfect cast would be exactly at 19 (or less, since DP reduces activation time as well), but 18s is a more plausible cast. So on the 30s recharge of SF, you get 19s out of the original, given an assumed 1s cast time. Immediately after this, AE will drop SF and begin its 20s recharge. So SF1 goes from 0-19 seconds, and SF2 goes 19-45 seconds. Since AE recharges 20 seconds after it releases the copy, it recharges exactly at 40 seconds. DP and SF have long-since recharged at this point. It takes ~3 seconds to cast the chain, given AE's 2s cast time and an assumed (though in actuality it's less) 1s time for SF. So 43 seconds to have recast the original DP-->AE-->SF chain when all skills are recharged at 40s. Seems pretty maintainable to me.

Anori Sakaii · Dec 30, 2008, 11:16 PM // 23:16

Thank you guys so much, It was my staff. I have 40/40 on it, but good thing I have a back up w/o it. And for you guys who said it isn't do-able. I tested it today. It worked!

Mods- plz close this thread

~Anori Sakaii

Unreal Havoc · Dec 31, 2008, 02:43 AM // 02:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz

Good luck finding a staff without an HSR mod

.

Good point.

Martial weapon with +5 energy and enchantments last 20% longer and focus.

Spiritz · Dec 31, 2008, 04:38 AM // 04:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by FengShuiDove

Your post is wrong. Plain and simple. A/Me can run Perma with the current duration and 60 second recharge.

Err confusing when sf isnt 60 secs recharge anymore which you point out later becomes 45 secs -