Originally Posted by Tyla

Some people would still recognise tanks as people who build their skill bar up to do that task solely. I am part of that crowd and recognise the gathering and building up of enemies for defensive, and possible offensive purpose as "managing agro" over "tanking", which means, to my side of the crowd devoting yourself to the task.

Now, we look at most tanking builds and what do we see? Every single skill has defensive purpose only usable on yourself. The only exception to this, would be skills such as "I Am Unstoppable!" because it allows an anti-knockdown that has a decent duration, can't be stripped and has an armour buff aswell. Adding to this is that there are limited skills that negate the effects of a knockdown, either too flimsy in duration / recharge ("Brace Yourself!", "Don't Trip!") or only affect one person for that time (Aura of Stability). You also see knockdown in PvE to be violently pushed in, for example, you see giants Stomping you a lot of the time, and possible Earth Shakers. Almost all knockdowns in PvE are extremely powerful used against you, because of sheer numbers. Back on the topic of tanking, people rely too much on a large amount of skills used for defense. You look at the Obsidian Tank, and you think "shit, how many self-defense skills does this bar need?" - that, aswell as the speed turned down by an incredible amount. One or two defensive skills only appliable to yourself, assuming that that area of defense is limited (again, knockdown) is a "fair enough" thing. Six, jeez, overdoing it. The Shadow Form 'Sin allows you to have incredibly high defense in two skills, three and your secondary excluding consumables, and only one maxed attribute. This allows a heavy investment in your offensive potential.

In short, Shadow Form allows "tanks" to take on a decent offensive turn aswell as a decent defensive turn because it gives you a high amount of usable attribute points and skill slots to take advantage of.

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

I shall append this:

there is difference between "tank(1)" and "tank(2)".

First one goes all the way into making defensive skillbar, neglecting offense. Success of group wholy depends on him gathering all the aggro and staying alive. Should he fail in either, party wipes because such party will not be able to handle aggro spills.

Other thank is scrapegoat that runs in combat with few prots to make mobs waste skill recharges, hes is not exctly carefull about attracting all the aggro and its okay. In any case, group has monks who know what prots are for and can handle aggro spills/deaths/whatever.

Originally Posted by Balky

stuff

Originally Posted by wtfisgoingon

more stuff

Originally Posted by Damian979;

Translated and correctly spelled Qigong means cultivating energy. Originated in Buddhism by Taoist monks before the creation of the Shaolin Temple. It's practice has been adapted to improve mental awareness in martial arts but has nothing to do with actual combat. Kind of like it has nothing to do with this thread....interesting.

Useless sidetracking over, please continue

Originally Posted by Steps_Descending

Just a question. In your theory, is the tank2 supposed to keep the aggro of the mobs he already has while the rest kill the monk, or is he just there to pop the cooldown?

If he stays still, then some aggro should break when a mob is attacked or it has a skill to use on someone else. (hex/enchant removal, interupt, ward...) [edit ]At that point the party should only be attacked by the support classes and the occasional real attacker who broke free of the tank. Easing the burden for the monk.[ end-edit]
If he moves, all aggro should break quickly.
In the first case, we can say the war is tanking, even if he is running a shock axe build with 2 blocking stances to soften the burden.
In the later, he is simply pulling and taking the first blow.

Originally Posted by Balky

You forgot the stuff i originally responded to


And why does everyone think every Chinese martial art is Shaolin ? They`re not !!!

Btw, i could be wrong, but isn`t the monk dance routine Cheng style Tai Chi Chuan

Originally Posted by Balky

You forgot the stuff i originally responded to


And why does everyone think every Chinese martial art is Shaolin ? They`re not !!!

Btw, i could be wrong, but isn`t the monk dance routine Cheng style Tai Chi Chuan

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

Oh and this has absolutely nothing to do with Shadow Form whatsoever considering this is a videogame where there is stuff that happens in a fantasy world can never ever realistically happen in real life.

Originally Posted by romeus petrus

Up till the introduction of the God Mode AKA the SF buff, the classical frontliners or "tanks" used to be dervs or wars, I didnt mean that tanking is what wars and dervs were supposed to be doing.

Originally Posted by MisterT69

Up until the SF buff, eles were the true tanks of GW. They took less damage than any warrior or dervish tank considering most of those defensive tanks needed earth magic spells to keep them alive. There's no reason why people should reserve themselves to war/derv tanks considering they are completely inferior to an ele tank, which in turn is inferior to the assassin tank. Although as well all know, unless you're balling 2-3 mobs together for a big Cry of Pain spike, tanking is fairly pointless in PVE.

And honestly, it's all about what you find fun. Most people love watching mobs of 15-20+ foes being spiked to death in a matter of seconds. I'm certainly one of those people . And again this does go w/a previous argument I saw in this post. SF sins the best tanks? Probably not the BEST, considering a monk can tank most mobs with just a smiter behind him. SF tank needs an armada of cryers behind him to make the damage. 600's just stand there while mobs kill themselves trying to hurt the 600.

Originally Posted by wtfisgoingon

why do people use SF sins to tank, and not 600 monks to tank in PvE? since you said 600 monks are superior in tanking why no one shouts "LF 600 for HM FOW CLEAR!"

hmm?

Originally Posted by wtfisgoingon

Like I said foreigner.
You dont know what you are talking about, Chi Gong originates FROM Shaolin.
I never said All Chinese Martial Arts = Shaolin.
Shaolin is a form of Chinese Martial Arts developed by Shaolin monks.
Many Chinese martial arts techniques and stances uses Chi Gong.

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

Just to nip this arguement in the bud, its Qigong. It represents health maintenence practiced through breathing and movement techniques. Yes it was practiced in Taoist and Buddhist monasteries, but not solely for martial arts purposes as many seem to believe, but more for concentration and focus. It was also viewed as a very contreversial practice by many. While elements of it still exist in some Chinese martial arts today it is hardly the backbone or foundation of many of the methods as you seem to claim it is.

Also, as I have already stated, this has nothing to do with permanant invincibility to almost all forms of damage in a fantasy videogame, it's not even close unless you are going to change the skill description and type.