Curse

Forgotton200 · Jan 09, 2009, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Old palm strike with 13 critical strike:

New palm strike at 1/8/09 with 13 critical strike:

Is this still viable to use with the old Palm strike build?

fenix · Jan 09, 2009, 01:08 AM // 01:08

What a hilarious update. All you need from Palm Strike is cripple to last long enough for Trampling.

So much for nerfing it.

Dmitri3 · Jan 09, 2009, 01:19 AM // 01:19

Nerf without killing it. I like it.

Bowstring Badass · Jan 09, 2009, 01:19 AM // 01:19

Yes it is viable. :\

Seriously what kind of question is that...

Bobulation · Jan 09, 2009, 01:27 AM // 01:27

It still nerfed it because now 2 PSers cant have a whole team perma crippled......

Tyla · Jan 09, 2009, 01:31 AM // 01:31

It's a "fair enough" thing, but I feel it's still too spammable.

Off-topic, but why the hell didn't they touch anything else? Lingering Curse is still there, so meh.

What Now · Jan 09, 2009, 01:32 AM // 01:32

Edit: Complete opinion.
Unneeded nerf.

It's still as spammable just slightly less damaging but it lasts the turnaround so the cripples not that big of a problem is you're training or trying to keep a target snared (they can't block you xD)

Nothing ever stopped you from dshoting it ruining the entire build. And in HB all you have to do is not fail. Monking there (never played sin and I never saw a need for a nerf) I kite in circles around the shrine and when they reach me they stop to cast Palm and as they finish I mend touch out of their range as they catch up.

That alone puts most sins to rest since they 1234 and will not KD you. While higher ranked ones realize, doi I have another dual attack to KD. Although now it's more manageable and if it's really an issue kite between heroes or around your one hero or flag one around with you as you do this.

In GvG I found d-shoting both palms efficiently shut down most the pressure.

Now by nerfing this you did what to the rest of the smites and such? Nothing, nothing has changed nothing will. Even if you remove the cripple the rest of the bar is still quite efficient so maybe its not palm strike, maybe its the synergy in the bar, maybe something needs to be change to fix a huge chain of pressure. I always figured dual attacks were more powerful because they had to be lead up to and when you skip steps that's always been when problems arise. When skills like Falling Lotus Strike and Falling Spider skipped a step none the less only if the target was KDed and under enough pressure and instantly lead into another deadly KD like Horns of the Ox or Blades of Steel (yes comparing Backbreaker to Palms now) and everyone is always so quick to blame the elite. Maybe Shadow Prison wasn't so mindbogglingly overpowered when the chain was addressed aswell? When you can't start off with Black Lotus as an offhand and so on.

I see no further change needed, reducing the armor ignoring damage is pleasant enough. Maybe people need to stop thinking the only way to beat big damage is to run bigger damage and ditch some heroes for tactics, hmm naw those days are dead :P

No ones going to do anything but flame me as they disagree but there's 2 cents.
P.S. Tbh though I'd have preferred a 8-10 recharge and the previous effects and duration remain but a nerf is a nerf none the less ^^ at least it's still playable, that's pretty rare post-nerf eh?

Bobulation · Jan 09, 2009, 01:36 AM // 01:36

...Unneeded? Srsly?

dasmitchies · Jan 09, 2009, 01:39 AM // 01:39

Viable? Yep. PS still sets off a massive damage chain. It should be a spike prep, not a permasnare.

Skyy High · Jan 09, 2009, 01:55 AM // 01:55

Good change. Allows for a good sin combo (which they haven't had since BLS and SP were hit, and this elite snare doesn't come with a shadow step) while removing the I-hit-you-once-now-you-can-never-escape-me nuisance that a 12+ second cripple on a 4 second recharge had.

Puebert · Jan 09, 2009, 02:07 AM // 02:07

Yeah, good change imo.

No more 8-man perma cripple.

moriz · Jan 09, 2009, 02:09 AM // 02:09

this is untested, but i believe a character with dual cripple reduction with a speedboost can now escape a palm striker who's not under IMS. while this is not particularly important, palm strike is now significantly weaker.

Krill · Jan 09, 2009, 02:10 AM // 02:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by What Now

Edit: Complete opinion.
Unneeded nerf.

gtfo...

Would have like to see this skill smiters boon'd but w/e. Next update, cripslash to 4 adrenaline, unblockable, +60 direct damage and gash causes knockdown if crippled.

What Now · Jan 09, 2009, 02:37 AM // 02:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by arienrhode

gtfo...

Would have like to see this skill smiters boon'd but w/e. Next update, cripslash to 4 adrenaline, unblockable, +60 direct damage and gash causes knockdown if crippled.

That's like QQing about them making Flare elite and cripple because meteor shower hit you. Maybe the problem is broader than an elite, smiteway was run before with Backbreaker, even warriors, heroway didn't even have cripple, ect. While smiters boon did make it outdo a heal monk the lengthened recharge on skills DID make you easily outpressured without a real monk. Sure overlapping several of these did deal with pressure but then spiking started to roll them so they brought real monks to help vs spikes. Now we are here today. Backbreaker needs more hammer mastery to pull off and smiters no longer heal as much but the build is still rampant as a mod. Under your lead of nerfing elites what would of changed? Maybe its the concepts and normal skills and game mechanics that are beyond hope and repair which is why this game was given up on in hope of a better GW2. Or you can believe things are as easy as nerfing an elite and balance being instantly restored. More damage is good, matches end faster and bad monks QQ about it letting them know things are getting done before 20 minutes now. This build had many counters and wasn't some OMFG IT'S RUNNING TOWARD...I'm dead...kind of bull that everyone makes it out to be. Sure it was massive pressure but you had ample time to deal with it or shut it down. Maybe it was the support that came from the midline pressure and people not knowing whats hitting them and therefore how to react because this games too generic for free thought these days apparently.

Narcin · Jan 09, 2009, 02:41 AM // 02:41

the PS combo did NOT need a nerf. honestly, compared to all the other sin combos that have been in and out of meta because of skill nerfs, this combo is weak. just take a second to think, most of the old sin combos killed you while you were on the floor still. this combo doesnt come close unless you have some sort of spike support. the problem was NEVER palm strike, in HA its hero AI and the spammability of the skills they have. If you were a full heal monk, no support of any kind with you, you would still die to the sin no doubt about it, but it would take him longer that any other meta sin combo yet.

Bobulation · Jan 09, 2009, 02:45 AM // 02:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narcin

the PS combo did NOT need a nerf. honestly, compared to all the other sin combos that have been in and out of meta because of skill nerfs, this combo is weak. just take a second to think, most of the old sin combos killed you while you were on the floor still. this combo doesnt come close unless you have some sort of spike support. the problem was NEVER palm strike, in HA its hero AI and the spammability of the skills they have. If you were a full heal monk, no support of any kind with you, you would still die to the sin no doubt about it, but it would take him longer that any other meta sin combo yet.

So by most you mean Back breaker sin...

and you dont think a 12 second 5 energy cripple with a 4 second recharge is a problem?

Narcin · Jan 09, 2009, 02:54 AM // 02:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobulation

So by most you mean Back breaker sin...

and you dont think a 12 second 5 energy cripple with a 4 second recharge is a problem?

no by most i mean back breaker, shaddow prison, falling shocker build less powerful but kept you on the ground, the list goes on. go learn meta history please, and NO its not a problem a simple aura of stability, draw conditions, guardian, warding stops the sin. if you find it a problem peace and harmony or RC it before he can knock down which is EASY if ur kiting and there goes the damage. the skill was honestly the ONE buffed skill that was COMPLETELY balanced

What Now · Jan 09, 2009, 02:57 AM // 02:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobulation

So by most you mean Back breaker sin...

and you dont think a 12 second 5 energy cripple with a 4 second recharge is a problem?

I dunno would a longer cripple that covers itself and also happens to be ranged with 8 recharge be balanced? Oh wait Mel Shot is

Seriously it's recharge for the damage now is fine, not the best dps for an elite skill x.x cripple is what's saving this skill. It's also highly predictable and as stated dshot eats this...

So Palm strike is no longer run, people go back to Backbreaker or Hundred Blade warriors or anything...what did this update do? People will use the same generic sin skills (the few useful ones remaining) and with new elites continue to make "OPed" combos. Only real effect I've seen is this replace hammer warriors in some balanced teams which I understand and it's iffy but palm strike once again isn't the KD

But OMG YOU'RE RIGHT CRIPSHOT IS OPED o.o a cripple that can't be blocked that's 5e(with expertise) and 2 turnaround... it's not the cripple it's not really the damage as it is everything else and skipping a lead attack.

AKB48 · Jan 09, 2009, 03:07 AM // 03:07

Still useable, just the unblockable damage is lowered.....and despite so many people saying the 1-4 sec cripple is still alot....compare that to a kd AND a 14second cripple. In someways Hidden Calcorps are better than palm strike, now anyways ;D

Bobby2 · Jan 09, 2009, 03:12 AM // 03:12

'Still viable'? Find me another 4s recharge shortcut willya?