Curse

mystery666 · Dec 30, 2008, 10:30 AM // 10:30

hey ive been playing a sin since i got factions (for 9 months) and its my main character and i love playing him. The only problem is i cannot seem to do anything in HM unless i have help from another player.
I usually run crit scythe or moebius builds.
Ive tried all hero builds: sabway, RoJ, 3 physicals, eles and i just cant seem to do anything in hm.
I take either 2 monks and 2 warriors or 2 monks a warrior and ele for henchs.
is there any reason why?
my moebius build is

golden fox strike
wild strike
death blossom
moebius [e]
"i am the strongest"
crit eye
crit agility
way of perfection

my crit scythe is

ermites attack
mystic sweep
victorious sweep
reapers sweep [e]
crit eye
crit agility
way of the master
way of perfection

and yes i do have max armor with runes and insignas -_-

FengShuiDove · Dec 30, 2008, 10:57 AM // 10:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by mystery666

is there any reason why?

Well... surely there is, because my Sin excels in HM.

First of all, equipment. Yes, you have max armor, runes, and insignia, but unlike NM you can't get away with mistakes when selecting these. First rule: No Superiors except Vigor are allowed. In HM the damage output is clearly much higher and you don't get a buff to armor. I always use a Superior Vigor, Minor Crit, Minor Dagger (on dagger armor), and two Vitae, plus all Survivor insignia. On scythe armor it's just a +1 to Crit Strikes, leaving room for 1 more Vitae.

For weapons, I always have a longbow for pulling, and on dagger builds I've got 3 pairs (2 of which I use in PvE), Zealous, Sundering/Elemental, and Vampiric. All of them have +30 Fortitude mods, so coupled with my armor I have 630 health. I typically don't use Vampiric daggers in PvE, but I keep them on incase I encounter those niche foes that Vampiric is more effective against. On a Scythe, I use Sundering and +20% Enchantments to hold Aura of Holy Might up longer. Plus, I feel more comfortable kiting using Scythe since damage comes in packets through big hits and deep wound not consistent DPS. Still, with my Scythe modded as is, I've got 610 health.

Your builds look fairly decent, and fairly similar to the generic, functional Moebius and Critscythe builds. I'll post my builds so you can see any similarities or differences though. I doubt the problem is your builds, but usage could be a problem, in which case you'd just need more experience in NM to see how effective spiking/spamming works.

Dagger: [Golden Fox Strike][Wild Strike][Death Blossom][Moebius Strike][Critical Strike][Critical Agility], then some utility that is situation dependent.

If I know I'm going to be holding aggro against a lot of physicals, [Critical Defenses], if I know there are going to be strong backlines in the team compositions of my enemies, I may bring [Death's Charge] to put pressure on them, and if I'm just playing standard, generic mobs, [Asuran Scan] is an incredibly strong, spammable hex for insta-destroying anything in the game. Number eight can be a Res or whatever other utility you feel necessary for the area.

Scythe: [Way of the Master][Wounding Strike][Malicious Strike][Eremite's Attack][Mystic Sweep][Asuran Scan][Critical Agility][Aura of Holy Might]

I typically don't bring a Res in this build, though if I replace a skill it's usually AoHM simply because the build does excellent damage without it. Scan could be taken out if you prefer AoHM, but I tend to be an extremely active caller, and Scan, call, Wounding quickly in succession feeds Discord or facilitates whatever spike may follow from my team.

Heroes/team composition seems to be fairly decent as well. Sabway has carried me through most everything, though I often play with my girlfriend so we tend to mix in a WoH Monk on top of N/Rt Restorer. If you're henching, in GW:EN and NF, the Healer henchmen do a fairly decent job, though I'd bring a Prot along as well in HM. Beyond that, Earth Henchmen in each campaign and Fire Henchmen everywhere but GW:EN when fighting Destroyers should get the job done. In GW:EN, concerning areas against Destroyers where Fire damage should be avoided, the Interrupt henchman is fantastic, especially since they don't have any significant and persistent source of healing.

Other than that, it's about gameplay. In HM, areas you could usually afford to overaggro and it just feeds your Death Blossom/Scythe killing, you have to be far more careful. Also, builds occasionally must be specialized for the area. I'd say you definitely have a good start and understanding of what a Sin's job is, and I hope my post has helped out with some tweaks that can further your gameplay. Really though, practice, practice, practice. Sins are incredibly fun and effective in HM as the GW community has come to realize in many situations, utilizing many builds for damage, tanking, utility, etc. Keep plugging away and you'll be able to breeze through.

Luminarus · Dec 30, 2008, 10:57 AM // 10:57

Try putting [Save Yourselves] in the moebius deathblossom build.

Also perhaps try the sabway build with urself running:

[Assassin's Promise][Shadow Fang][You Move Like A Dwarf][Finish Him]

legacyofkain85 · Dec 30, 2008, 11:54 AM // 11:54

what do u mean by u can't do anything in hm?I see u have tried some popular builds but have u tried 3 necros with [discord]?U should try that grab a easy to aply hex and condition and u are good to go.

ZeAliX · Dec 30, 2008, 12:10 PM // 12:10

For me I never left any town without 3 monks, might be overkill, but I never died that much after I started brining 3 monks, no extra physicals. And with me using this build:
[Build;OwFi0xjMVDWm5/s/0wcwEDGTCA]

Works like a charm, even 4 secs of SY does the job.. that's what I had when I was doing vanqs. If you would like builds or something of the heroes I use, pm..

Tyla · Dec 30, 2008, 12:23 PM // 12:23

[golden fox strike][exhausting assault][moebius strike][death blossom][brawling headbutt][critical agility]["save yourselves!"][resurrection signet]

If you feel that you're not killing fast enough replace Exhausting Assault with Wild Strike or Golden Fang Strike. I just run Exhausting Assault because everything dies too fast (H/H), but I also feel I get to the Death Blossom...ing more. If you feel that you're taking too much damage don't use Headbutt and hit "SY!" on charge.

Abedeus · Dec 30, 2008, 12:43 PM // 12:43

Wait, I'm confused. Why Exhausting? Just go Golden Phoenix Strike and add Critical Strike for e-management, although with good monk you don't need it.

Standard DB/MS is enough. Or for a little twist, get scythe and WS everything to death.

Slash From The Shadows · Dec 30, 2008, 12:43 PM // 12:43

trust me, since i started using Discordway on my sin, well, most HM areas go pouf. oh , and btw, use this build or any other one you want with discordway with sin : 12+1+1 deadly, Assassin's Promise(E),You Move Like A Dwarf!,Finish Him! ,optional PvE only Skill
trust me, it realy works like a charm.

Tyla · Dec 30, 2008, 12:46 PM // 12:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Wait, I'm confused. Why Exhausting? Just go Golden Phoenix Strike and add Critical Strike for e-management, although with good monk you don't need it.

Standard DB/MS is enough. Or for a little twist, get scythe and WS everything to death.

Uber interrupting action.

I also hate relying on enchants to do my shit.

wind fire and ice · Dec 30, 2008, 12:47 PM // 12:47

Tyla's build.

Make sure your heroes are rune'd,thats very important for h/h HM.

go with a cruel spear para,earth ele(with splinter if you like) and a VoR mes,or any of the standard hm builds.

or just use AP+discord like every one else..

SmokingHotImolation · Dec 30, 2008, 03:45 PM // 15:45

[golden fox strike][Golden fang strike][Death blossom][moebius strike][save yourselves][critical agility][critical eye][For great justice]

IMO.

Quote:

Make sure your heroes are rune'd,thats very important for h/h HM.

No its not.

Zidane Ortef · Dec 30, 2008, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Really when it comes to HM there is nothing different you have to change except your playing actions, take more caution, pull groups and don't agro the whole room, and come prepared for the area your in.

I like my Sin as well and I do like using my daggers.

Human- [build=A/W;OwFi0xjM19cw0wI69Wq/UDOABA]

Hero 1 - [build=N/Rt;OAhjYwHc4Q5BCN2BlB7OYgVVJXA]

Hero 2- [build=N/Mo;OANDUshtOVB0wS1oVVVqTf0I]

Hero 3- [build=N/Rt;OAhiYwhMZtJNN5I8gBOOVVlcBA]

As for Runes Nightstalkers works well for dagger/scythe sins and I use a Major Dagger on head, and a minor critical on another piece then just fill the rest with 1 minor or major vigor (sup vigor if you can afford)and 2 vitaes.

Hero 1- Survivor, sup curse on head, and minor soulreapon on another piece then just fill the rest with 1 minor or major vigor and vitaes

Hero 2- Survivor on 4 pieces and then Bloodstained on one, sup death on head, and minor soulreaping on another piece and 1 minor or major vigor, and 2 vitaes on the rest.

Hero 3- Survivor on all, minor soul on head, and then fill the rest with 1 minor or major vigor and 3 vitaes.

But I've found myself using this more.

Human- [build=A/Me;OwVSMYPTLQ2k7ixkvZZA9ARA]

Hero 1- [build=N/Mo;OANDUshvOxsqAaoqqUPd1jAC]

Hero 2- [build=N/Rt;OAhjUoGYITxMKgTOSTCPYgVVJXA]

Hero 3- [build=N/Rt;OAhkUoG2hFyUMjdwkj0kwDG44UyF]

Human- You can just get away with Full Survivor, Sup Deadly art Headpiece, and 1 minor or major vigor(again sup if you can afford) and 4 vitaes

Hero 1- 4 Survivors and 1 Bloodstained, with sup death on head, minor soulreaping, minor or major vigor, and 2 vitaes on the rest

Hero 2- full Survivor and minor death on head, minor soulreaping, minor or major vigor, and 2 vitaes.

Hero 3- full Survivor and minor death on head, major soulreaping(do to the major attribute split on that build), minor or major vigor, and 2 vitaes.

As for weapons Fendi's Staff works well on all the builds, the stonereaper is great for the SS,

If you can afford it it a 40/40 resto set never hurts teh N/Rt healer on the first set up but its not a life or death addition.

MegaVolti · Dec 31, 2008, 04:19 AM // 04:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by mystery666

hey ive been playing a sin since i got factions (for 9 months) and its my main character and i love playing him. The only problem is i cannot seem to do anything in HM unless i have help from another player.
I usually run crit scythe or moebius builds.
Ive tried all hero builds: sabway, RoJ, 3 physicals, eles and i just cant seem to do anything in hm.
I take either 2 monks and 2 warriors or 2 monks a warrior and ele for henchs.
is there any reason why?
my moebius build is

golden fox strike
wild strike
death blossom
moebius [e]
"i am the strongest"
crit eye
crit agility
way of perfection

I usually run the same build with [[critical defenses] instead of [[way of perfection] and sabway heroes. I have to problems at all in HM, it's quite easy (at least vanquising and missions ... some EotN dungeons and elite missions of cause not).
As heroes I usually take the earth mage (never fire in HM) if available, one monk (healer) and two physicals, either rangers or warriors. Only more difficult spots I use the 2nd henchmen monk.

Runed heroes help but aren't really necessary. The most important thing is to set them to defensive so they don't aggro everything

And only go for one mob at a time.

Daesu · Dec 31, 2008, 04:45 AM // 04:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

I also hate relying on enchants to do my shit.

It is not that difficult to remain enchanted if you bring an enchant supporting hero team build.

One idea is to bring a [[Ether Renewal (PvE)] Smite/Protect Ele and cast [[Strength Of Honor] on your sin. Having more enchantments, rather than just [[Critical Agility] would reduce the chance of an enchantment removal gimping your build. This way, your [[Golden Fox Strike] will always be unblockable, your [[Golden Fang Strike] would always cause a deep wound, and your [[Golden Phoenix Strike] would not miss. And of course, I am not using the standard sabway or even discordway. I try to match my heroes to my characters.

mystery666 · Dec 31, 2008, 10:25 AM // 10:25

hey thanks for the replys i set up the discordway build and it works like a charm ^^

Little Wibblets · Dec 31, 2008, 03:25 PM // 15:25

My favorite is the Discordway setup. The only real skills you need are Assasin's Promise (Elite), You move like a Dwarf, Finish Him, and my Favorite is Assasin Support (Vanguard).

With Assasin's Promise and Assassin Support I sometimes get 3-4 Vanguard Assassin's running around.

Daesu · Dec 31, 2008, 06:16 PM // 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zidane Ortef

Human- [build=A/Me;OwVSMYPTLQ2k7ixkvZZA9ARA]

Hero 1- [build=N/Mo;OANDUshvOxsqAaoqqUPd1jAC]

Hero 2- [build=N/Rt;OAhjUoGYITxMKgTOSTCPYgVVJXA]

Hero 3- [build=N/Rt;OAhkUoG2hFyUMjdwkj0kwDG44UyF]

Human- You can just get away with Full Survivor, Sup Deadly art Headpiece, and 1 minor or major vigor(again sup if you can afford) and 4 vitaes

Hero 1- 4 Survivors and 1 Bloodstained, with sup death on head, minor soulreaping, minor or major vigor, and 2 vitaes on the rest

Hero 2- full Survivor and minor death on head, minor soulreaping, minor or major vigor, and 2 vitaes.

Hero 3- full Survivor and minor death on head, major soulreaping(do to the major attribute split on that build), minor or major vigor, and 2 vitaes.

I am probably OT discussing this but besides AP, that is not a primary assassin build and probably works better with a caster secondary assassin.

Spirit Transfer requires a spirit and Life lasts 20s at most, shorter if it is attacked, then Spirit Light would also start to sac 17% hp per cast. I prefer the [[Protective was Kaolai] and [[Recovery] combo, but thats just me.

The Arching Healer · Dec 31, 2008, 06:23 PM // 18:23

We got Ioncannon now:
[ray of judgment][smite condition][smite hex][reversal of damage][castigation signet][smiter's boon]
Run 3 of these, take 1 healer hench and PvE is a laugh.

Luminarus · Jan 01, 2009, 07:23 AM // 07:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Arching Healer

We got Ioncannon now:
[ray of judgment][smite condition][smite hex][reversal of damage][castigation signet][smiter's boon]
Run 3 of these, take 1 healer hench and PvE is a laugh.

PvE is always a laugh...

Zidane Ortef · Jan 01, 2009, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

I am probably OT discussing this but besides AP, that is not a primary assassin build and probably works better with a caster secondary assassin.

Spirit Transfer requires a spirit and Life lasts 20s at most, shorter if it is attacked, then Spirit Light would also start to sac 17% hp per cast. I prefer the [[Protective was Kaolai] and [[Recovery] combo, but thats just me.

I prefer AP on Sin primary do to the fact that at 15 DA you get back a nice 20 nrg to cover the 35nrg chain, but other profession have there tweeks ele has ES so energy should never be a problem and alot of combination you can use.

When moving from group to group AI always will cast life on recharge so if you notice most of the time it will be back behind away from people.

At 12 resto 0 spwning Life will have 210 hp it would take 5 cast to kill it just with the heal itself. and if it gets kill soon than the 20 seconds are up it's not a big deal because no matter how it dies you will get healed.

As for Recovery its nice if you have a friend running another Necro healer but just by itself its more energy and takes longer to recharge and at the pace you kill things with discord there would be no reason not to bring the short recharging skill. Protective was Kaolai works I just prefer the double Pure was Ling Mi do to the fact that the build has no hex removal what so ever so keeping the conditions mostly degen off of your team relieves a lot of pressure off your healers.

Over all choosing Prot was and Recovery over Prot was and Life or Pure was and Life is not wise. that +hp every 20seconds is alot of less work for your healers.