Curse

shutdownmesmer · Feb 17, 2009, 05:55 PM // 17:55

i like all this display of wastrel's collapse builds, but I have a question: who do you want to kill with them? Personally, i play with sins to kill monks fast. Lets say that wastrel's collapse worked on a monk. So what??? Almost all the monks in RA (at least the good ones) are Mo/W and have +2 blocking stances. You kd him, the monk instantly puts a stance or worst, the shield bash and... all your chain is useless. Then the monks gets up, carefully wipes out the dust of his clothes and... puts something like guardian.Personally, i like skills like [Palm Strike], [Rigor Mortis], [Wild Blow], [Impale], [Iron Palm], [Dancing Daggers], [Shock] and some devastating dagger attacks just at the right time (when the monk is so scared that forgot to block), like [Twisting Fangs]

Wish Swiftdeath · Feb 18, 2009, 02:13 PM // 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by shutdownmesmer

i like all this display of wastrel's collapse builds, but I have a question: who do you want to kill with them? Personally, i play with sins to kill monks fast. Lets say that wastrel's collapse worked on a monk. So what??? Almost all the monks in RA (at least the good ones) are Mo/W and have +2 blocking stances. You kd him, the monk instantly puts a stance or worst, the shield bash and... all your chain is useless. Then the monks gets up, carefully wipes out the dust of his clothes and... puts something like guardian.Personally, i like skills like [Palm Strike], [Rigor Mortis], [Wild Blow], [Impale], [Iron Palm], [Dancing Daggers], [Shock] and some devastating dagger attacks just at the right time (when the monk is so scared that forgot to block), like [Twisting Fangs]

Just so ya know, bring balanced stance and palm strike, dancing daggers and shock are useless.

Also good monks don't get scared and forget to block, they nearly always have at least one stance up in case they get surprised as you say.

Tbh SA sins are the most annoying to face and i have no idea why they aren't played more

Bobby2 · Feb 18, 2009, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wish Swiftdeath

Just so ya know, bring balanced stance and palm strike, dancing daggers and shock are useless.

Yeah. [wild blow] is so worth it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wish Swiftdeath

Tbh SA sins are the most annoying to face and i have no idea why they aren't played more

Unblockability is fearsome. But they commonly lack a snare of their own, and are restricted to sucky Shadow Steps.

Super Igor · Feb 19, 2009, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Good monks dont get scared, dont rely on this for you build.

Stealth Bomberman · Feb 19, 2009, 03:06 AM // 03:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

Good monks dont get scared, dont rely on this for you build.

"good monks" are overconfident and will die from a carefully planned chain.

Lusciious · Feb 19, 2009, 02:14 PM // 14:14

BB > WC. but there are some pretty good WC builds here which are devastating if the chain is completed but relying on WC and HoTO for the spike isn't good ..

Kyosuki · Feb 19, 2009, 10:27 PM // 22:27

I noticed all of you use Horns Of Ox,isn't pretty useless since it wont work if your ennemy is near there allies(which 90% of the time,they are)

Stealth Bomberman · Feb 19, 2009, 10:52 PM // 22:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyosuki

I noticed all of you use Horns Of Ox,isn't pretty useless since it wont work if your ennemy is near there allies(which 90% of the time,they are)

[horns of the ox] adjacent. in AB that's......never?

Super Igor · Feb 20, 2009, 12:34 AM // 00:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth Bomberman

"good monks" are overconfident and will die from a carefully planned chain.

In that case they are bad monks.

fireflyry · Feb 20, 2009, 09:08 AM // 09:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

Unblockability is fearsome.

QFT.

Cue random tangent:

Rangers are minority enough for me to ignore and to be honest 99% of the time I can say "Guys...ranger in the group, not taking that target" and someone else takes care of them while I deal to the monk or nuker.

Rock, paper, scissors.

gg

Easier to call and communicate than take anti-block skills at the sacrifice of instagib and "just in case".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth Bomberman

[horns of the ox] adjacent. in AB that's......never?

If your one of the sins that takes off solo to gank 24/7.

Good luck helping cap the ele shrine.

I seldom run Horns anymore (stopped after the nerf tbh) because your basically saying you want to gank, not cap, and tbh there are better bars that do both, with better DPS and have less conditions to complete the chain.

Ganking is great fun.

In AB it = fail unless you can both gank and cap assist at speed.

I see to many Sins running around thinking they "pwn" AB when really they add little to the team as they run pure 1v1 gank 1234567 skill chains and are nullified in capping due to conditional attacks.

Leave that in RA imo.

Morgoth the dark · Feb 20, 2009, 09:36 AM // 09:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyosuki

I noticed all of you use Horns Of Ox,isn't pretty useless since it wont work if your ennemy is near there allies(which 90% of the time,they are)

i'm not using horns and 3 dual attacks > 2. especialy when finished with blades of steel.

Kyosuki · Feb 21, 2009, 06:50 AM // 06:50

Help =(
Trying to find a build around WC without the use of Horns of Ox...
I came up with this for now,pretty lame,anyone know a WC build with no Horns of Ox?
Wastrel Collapse
Failling Lotus
Iron Palm
Failling Spider
Twisting Fangs
Blades Of Steel
Shadow Refuge
Dash

Lusciious · Feb 21, 2009, 08:33 AM // 08:33

@kyosuki, yeah . i like this . [wastrel's collapse][scorpion wire][flurry][black mantis thrust][jungle strike][trampling ox][falling lotus strike][twisting fangs]

use scorpion wire as a hex for the crippling bonus from [black mantis thrust] and as an anti kite. and if [wastrel's collapse] is timed properly, this build should work without a problem.

moriz · Feb 21, 2009, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

If your one of the sins that takes off solo to gank 24/7.

Good luck helping cap the ele shrine.

I seldom run Horns anymore (stopped after the nerf tbh) because your basically saying you want to gank, not cap, and tbh there are better bars that do both, with better DPS and have less conditions to complete the chain.

Ganking is great fun.

In AB it = fail unless you can both gank and cap assist at speed.

I see to many Sins running around thinking they "pwn" AB when really they add little to the team as they run pure 1v1 gank 1234567 skill chains and are nullified in capping due to conditional attacks.

Leave that in RA imo.

so i herd preventing opposition from capping is just as important as capping yourself. every caster ganked is one less shrine that your side will have to cap.

not to mention, outside of a handful of builds, the ele shrine is not meant to be soloed. and if you cap it with a group, it hardly matters what build you use as long as you can do damage and stand still for a few seconds.

Stealth Bomberman · Feb 21, 2009, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

QFT.
If your one of the sins that takes off solo to gank 24/7.

Good luck helping cap the ele shrine.

I seldom run Horns anymore (stopped after the nerf tbh) because your basically saying you want to gank, not cap, and tbh there are better bars that do both, with better DPS and have less conditions to complete the chain.

Ganking is great fun.

In AB it = fail unless you can both gank and cap assist at speed.

I see to many Sins running around thinking they "pwn" AB when really they add little to the team as they run pure 1v1 gank 1234567 skill chains and are nullified in capping due to conditional attacks.

Leave that in RA imo.

in AB i use, [conjure frost][way of the assassin][golden fox strike][golden fang strike][death blossom]

i actually contribute something to my team.

Kyosuki · Feb 21, 2009, 06:07 PM // 18:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

@kyosuki, yeah . i like this . [wastrel's collapse][scorpion wire][flurry][black mantis thrust][jungle strike][trampling ox][falling lotus strike][twisting fangs]

use scorpion wire as a hex for the crippling bonus from [black mantis thrust] and as an anti kite. and if [wastrel's collapse] is timed properly, this build should work without a problem.

Interesting,but how far is "100'" and woudnt the spike fail if my target dosnt move(Scorpion Wire)

moriz · Feb 21, 2009, 06:34 PM // 18:34

100' is longbow range. or at least, pretty close to it.

Bobby2 · Feb 21, 2009, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

Ganking is great fun.

In AB it = fail unless you can both gank and cap assist at speed.

What moriz said, basically.

Ganking nuker going after your shrine = effective shrine defense
Ganking rupt mesmer/ranger going after your nuker = effective cap assist

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

Rangers are minority enough for me to ignore and to be honest 99% of the time I can say "Guys...ranger in the group, not taking that target" and someone else takes care of them while I deal to the monk or nuker.

Rock, paper, scissors.

gg

Easier to call and communicate than take anti-block skills at the sacrifice of instagib and "just in case".

Our experiences may differ. The presence of Rangers alone would warrant me packing stance removal (communication in AB is minimal unless you're with friends anyway), Monks relying on D-Stance or Dark Escape are just gravy. Your "just in case" is my "every damn match".

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

If your one of the sins that takes off solo to gank 24/7.

Guilty as charged. When the team I'm in contains a nuker (usually) and they have a free ride to the next shrine, my role is no more than a body to turn the shrine after it's wiped. I can commonly nab a nuker or a straggler or two in the time it takes for the rest of the team to turn that shrine without me and reach the next, ultimately having a greater influence on the outcome of the battle.

Besides, Assassins were made for 1v1 situations (or better). Anyone set on sticking with their team 24/7 would imho be better off playing a Hammer War.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

Good luck helping cap the ele shrine.

I feel I am. What was your alternative, try to Blossom them to death?

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

I seldom run Horns anymore (stopped after the nerf tbh) because your basically saying you want to gank, not cap, and tbh there are better bars that do both, with better DPS and have less conditions to complete the chain.

I always try to include an Ox in any chain I run, currently both (yes, I'm a PS wh0re, but that's off-topic). For me, that's [horns of the ox] over [blades of steel], so clearly I don't mind the loss of DPS - KDs are powerful enough in 1v1 situations but with allies around to capitalize on them they become simply devastating. And none (save Rangers perhaps) are more adept at picking their fights than Assassins.

ac1inferno · Feb 21, 2009, 07:04 PM // 19:04

1. [build prof=A/W Dagger=12+1+1 crit=12+1][flurry][wastrel's collapse][falling spider][Horns of the ox][falling lotus strike][twisting fangs][optional][optional][/build]
- [[Return]
- [[Death's Retreat]
- [[Dash]
- [[Assassin's Remedy]
- [[Blades of Steel] and [[Impale] instead of [[Twisting Fangs].
- Consider an alternative IAS, such as [[Frenzy] or [[Tiger Stance].
- /E secondary and [[Shock], this changes the build from a spike to a pressure build.

2. [build prof=A/W DaggerMastery=12+1+1 CriticalStrikes=12+1][Wastrel's Collapse][Optional][Unsuspecting Strike][Fox Fangs][Horns of the Ox][Falling Lotus Strike][Twisting Fangs][resurrection signet][/build]
- [[[email protected]], [[Flurry], [[Frenzy] (only use without a [[Resurrection Signet]).
- [[Dash] over [[Resurrection Signet] outside of RA.
- Drop [[Fox Fangs] if you have a team which can cripple your opponents, in which case take [[Jungle Strike].

3. [build prof=assas/any dagger=10+1 critic=8 Deadlyarts=12+1+1][Wastrel's Collapse][Falling Spider][Vampiric Assault][Impale][Signet Of Toxic Shock][Optional][Dash][Resurrection Signet][/build]
- [[Iron Palm] (extra KD)
- [[Dancing Daggers] (a spam skill for the down time)
- [[Disrupting Dagger] (Interrupt)
- Swap [[Twisting Fangs] for [[Vampiric assault] and add [[Signet of Deadly Corruption].
- An IAS like [[Tiger Stance]
- Enchantment Removal like [[Rip Enchantment] or [[Rend Enchantments]
- [[Horns of the Ox] for more KD lock.
- A self preservation skill such as [[Return] or [[Feigned Neutrality].
- [[Mending Touch] for condition removal.

fireflyry · Feb 25, 2009, 03:11 AM // 03:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

so i herd preventing opposition from capping is just as important as capping yourself. every caster ganked is one less shrine that your side will have to cap.

Ummm....yeah....I already said that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

QFT.
In AB it = fail unless you can both gank and cap assist at speed.

My point was you can do both, with out depending on non-adjacency to garner KD or complete a spike.

Win/Win.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

Our experiences may differ. The presence of Rangers alone would warrant me packing stance removal (communication in AB is minimal unless you're with friends anyway), Monks relying on D-Stance or Dark Escape are just gravy. Your "just in case" is my "every damn match".

Fair call.

I guess I just prefer a more powerful chain and target switching.

Each to their own.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

Besides, Assassins were made for 1v1 situations (or better). Anyone set on sticking with their team 24/7 would imho be better off playing a Hammer War.

Again just a point of personal difference I guess.

I tend to find it more effective to stay with the team, if there is a nuker I still stick around as chances are they will need protecting.I'm not adverse to chasing strays but tend to find to many people running around going gank crazy usually ends with lots of kills, while the other team wins.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

I always try to include an Ox in any chain I run, currently both (yes, I'm a PS wh0re, but that's off-topic). For me, that's [horns of the ox] over [blades of steel], so clearly I don't mind the loss of DPS - KDs are powerful enough in 1v1 situations but with allies around to capitalize on them they become simply devastating

I agree, but after trying several variations I prefer BoS for the spike.

I don't need another KD if my target is dead.