Curse

Moloch Vein · Apr 22, 2009, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Dawg

OK, try vanqing or doing HM dungeons with [whirlwind attack] and fail when enemy casters fry you. Then try it with [pain inverter] and win when they fry themselves instead.

You're talking to a Legendary Vanquisher, newbie.

Super Igor · Apr 22, 2009, 04:43 PM // 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

You're talking to a Legendary Vanquisher, newbie.

LMAO!

lgndry vnqvshr is srs bznz.

Super Igor · Apr 22, 2009, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

All those people suggesting buffs: figure they'd go well on a Blossom spammer, too?

@ Igor: Morgahn spreads the love. Mainly for Hayda and for any adren junkie brave enough to join my team. FGJ! = selfish.

I'd rather have FGJ! on my bar than see Morgahn spread love tbh... >.>

Xenomortis · Apr 22, 2009, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Dawg

OK, try vanqing or doing HM dungeons with [whirlwind attack] and fail when enemy casters fry you. Then try it with [pain inverter] and win when they fry themselves instead.

If you are incapable of surviving a nuke, Pain Inverter won't help that.
If you are incapable of stopping a nuker ripping your team apart, perhaps you should examine what you are doing, instead of taking the crutch that is Pain Inverter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by riktw

only downside is that in HM armor can be an problem.

The majority (if not all) of your buffs will be armour ignoring. [Order of the Vampire] is Lifesteal, [Strength of Honor] and [Order of Pain] are armour ignoring. If you have Vampiric Daggers, that's also armour ignoring.
Armour is of little concern.

Super Igor · Apr 22, 2009, 05:08 PM // 17:08

I used this for the lulz, must say its pretty funny.

[build prof=a/w box dagger=14 crit=13][locusts fury][critical agility][critical eye][for great justice!][save yourselves!][ebon battle standard of honor][air of superiority][distracting strike][/build]
[build prof=n/a box curse=14 dead=10 soul=9][assassin's promise][rigor mortis][ mark of pain][barbs][enfeebling blood][weaken armor][rend enchantments][signet of lost souls][/build]

Unreal Havoc · Apr 22, 2009, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

The majority (if not all) of your buffs will be armour ignoring. [Order of the Vampire] is Lifesteal, [Strength of Honor] and [Order of Pain] are armour ignoring. If you have Vampiric Daggers, that's also armour ignoring.
Armour is of little concern.

Throw MS/DB on top and you have even more armour ignoring damage? No?

Super Igor · Apr 22, 2009, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

Throw MS/DB on top and you have even more armour ignoring damage? No?

its all about locusts now Selket, dont you know??

Moloch Vein · Apr 22, 2009, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

LMAO!

lgndry vnqvshr is srs bznz.

What's your point? He claims that "it will get him fried in HM", when we do for a fact know that it's bullshit. If anything, it is the playing style required for Pain Inverter that will get him "fried in HM", because that spell relies on the team taking damage.

What other measures would you set? Bottom line is I'm tired of people blurting out unfounded statements when I know they don't have half the competence or experience of my friends in this area.

Oh and on topic, I don't like Locust's, but that's mostly because I'm allergic to enchantment-reliant front liners. It's not really a logical feeling.

Xenomortis · Apr 22, 2009, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

Throw MS/DB on top and you have even more armour ignoring damage? No?

The effective attack speed of MS/DB is lower than autoattacking under Locust's Fury. DB spamming also requires you to use another (if not two) attack skill to mark the target, slowing you down and it's unlikely one target will live for very long.
However, DB gives reasonable armour ignoring AoE damage. Although this is insignificant next to the AoE damage you'd get if a necro was to put Mark of Pain on your target (see Igor's post).

Moloch Vein · Apr 22, 2009, 05:53 PM // 17:53

The effective attack speed is lower, true, but I am uncertain what the damage break point is, in other words, exactly how many damage increasing effects would you need in order to make Locust's DPS higher than what is achieved by the traditional DB/MS. It's hard to calculate this and it must be done on a case-by-case basis, but my feeling is you'd need to pump the party effects pretty damn high to do this.

Super Igor · Apr 22, 2009, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

The effective attack speed of MS/DB is lower than autoattacking under Locust's Fury. DB spamming also requires you to use another (if not two) attack skill to mark the target, slowing you down and it's unlikely one target will live for very long.
However, DB gives reasonable armour ignoring AoE damage. Although this is insignificant next to the AoE damage you'd get if a necro was to put Mark of Pain on your target (see Igor's post).

tho, imagine DB landing on MoP now... :P

Moloch Vein · Apr 22, 2009, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

tho, imagine DB landing on MoP now... :P

I normally use a Moebius build while playing my sin for general PvE, because frankly, I can't really bother to micro Whisp's Mark for every cast. Reversely, if I were to bring a dagger sin hero build, I would absolutely slot him Locust's, because he'll do far, far more damage this way than with his inept handling of Moebius.

Oh and I might note that Moebius/Death Blossom is actually not maintainable if you spam it too much, at least not in any ordinary team build. Locust's certainly is maintainable.

Xenomortis · Apr 22, 2009, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

tho, imagine DB landing on MoP now... :P

When it comes to Mark of Pain, I'd be looking to maximise the attack rate as I'd expect Mark of Pain to outdamage Death Blossom.
The only concern with MoP with Locust's, is that a heavily buffed sin may end up killing the marked target too quickly.

Unreal Havoc · Apr 22, 2009, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

The effective attack speed of MS/DB is lower than autoattacking under Locust's Fury. DB spamming also requires you to use another (if not two) attack skill to mark the target, slowing you down and it's unlikely one target will live for very long.
However, DB gives reasonable armour ignoring AoE damage. Although this is insignificant next to the AoE damage you'd get if a necro was to put Mark of Pain on your target (see Igor's post).

How is it insignificant when MS/DB does AoE damage aswell? You're effectively putting out more AoE damage alongside more single target damage.

Unless it's for severe bar compression there's just no valid reason that I see to take Locusts Fury over MS/DB. The attack speed doesn't mean anything when the damage from Locusts Fury is negated by armour with no armour ignoring damage.

What you're effectively saying is that because the rest of the team is ridiculously overpowered it's a good excuse to take a bad elite over a good one. I'll take MS/DB, which is double strike spamming anyway, over Locusts Fury anyday.

Super Igor · Apr 22, 2009, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

I normally use a Moebius build while playing my sin for general PvE, because frankly, I can't really bother to micro Whisp's Mark for every cast. Reversely, if I were to bring a dagger sin hero build, I would absolutely slot him Locust's, because he'll do far, far more damage this way than with his inept handling of Moebius.

Oh and I might note that Moebius/Death Blossom is actually not maintainable if you spam it too much, at least not in any ordinary team build. Locust's certainly is maintainable.

You dont really have to micro MoP, hero locks n the same target you attack and will MoP it by himself.
Also, I never ran out of energy spamming MS/DB...crits + crit eye + zeal daggers ftw. :3

Xenomortis · Apr 22, 2009, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

How is it insignificant when MS/DB des AoE damage aswell? You're effectively putting out more AoE damage alongside more single target damage.

Unless it's for severe bar compression there's just no valid reason that I see to take Locusts Fury over MS/DB. The attack speed doesn't mean anything when the damage from Locusts Fury is negated by armour with no armour ignoring damage.

What you're effectively saying is that because the rest of the team is ridiculously overpowered it's a good excuse to take a bad elite over a good one. I'll take MS/DB, which is double strike spamming anyway, over Locusts Fury anyday.

Sorry, I understated DB, I forgot it's numbers match (and exceed at times) Mark of Pain (but it triggers nowhere near as often).
The real problem, I find, is the lead up to it. Quite often, you'll only end up using it once or twice on a target before he drops dead.
If you're using Mark of Pain, your attack rate will be higher with Locust's and will therefore, trigger Mark of Pain more often, perhaps compensating for the lack of your AoE damage.
Death Blossom doesn't really depend on allies for damage though, but is still augmented by buffs.

Another consideration, is that with locust's (and someone with suitable buffs and/or Mark of Pain), you'll be able to take and fuel Save Yourselves and perhaps take some more PvE skills to augment the damage output of you and your allies (EBSoH). Locust's gives much better bar compression and with a suitable team, only a small (if any, depending on situations) reduction in damage.

If I was running on my own or with a bunch of idiots, I'd run Death Blossom every time. However if I was in a group of competent people and we had a plan, I'd consider switching to Locust's if it would benefit us.

As for heroes, I would only every take Locust's to power Mark of Pain, but I don't think I'll ever bother with an Assassin hero.

Moloch Vein · Apr 22, 2009, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

You dont really have to micro MoP, hero locks n the same target you attack and will MoP it by himself.
Also, I never ran out of energy spamming MS/DB...crits + crit eye + zeal daggers ftw. :3

The problem is that the hero will lock onto the target you call and that Mark of Pain is on a 20 seconds recharge. If you play the way I do (which I guess) you call nearly every target for focused fire. In this manner it will become inevitable, unless you micro the Mark, that it gets put on a low-priority target now and then.

You could give the hero Assassin's Promise, but then, you'd need to micro that...

Unreal Havoc · Apr 22, 2009, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Sorry, I understated DB, I forgot it's numbers match (and exceed at times) Mark of Pain (but it triggers nowhere near as often).
The real problem, I find, is the lead up to it. Quite often, you'll only end up using it once or twice on a target before he drops dead.
If you're using Mark of Pain, your attack rate will be higher with Locust's and will therefore, trigger Mark of Pain more often, perhaps compensating for the lack of your AoE damage.
Death Blossom doesn't really depend on allies for damage though, but is still augmented by buffs.

Another consideration, is that with locust's (and someone with suitable buffs and/or Mark of Pain), you'll be able to take and fuel Save Yourselves and perhaps take some more PvE skills to augment the damage output of you and your allies (EBSoH). Locust's gives much better bar compression and with a suitable team, only a small (if any, depending on situations) reduction in damage.

If I was running on my own or with a bunch of idiots, I'd run Death Blossom every time. However if I was in a group of competent people and we had a plan, I'd consider switching to Locust's if it would benefit us.

As for heroes, I would only every take Locust's to power Mark of Pain, but I don't think I'll ever bother with an Assassin hero.

There is no problem with the lead up. You're still landing effective armour ignoring damage on the target until you get into MS/DB. It takes all of two seconds to do under an IAS.

I find I can fuel Save Yourselves more than adequately with MS/DB, I really struggle to see the big deal here. If you want to be pro about maintaining uber damage negation buffs then run an Imbagon.

If you're killing stuff that quickly I'd take an Assassins Promise Sin with Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support over Locusts Fury to be honest. Go Ritualist secondary and you can throw Splinter Weapon and Ancestors Rage on it for even more AoE damage while sitting back out of the way abusing ridiculously overpowered PvE skills.

FoxBat · Apr 22, 2009, 06:37 PM // 18:37

MS-DB averages out to 44% "chance" to double strike. LFury averages out to 80%, so basically double the double-strike chance.

MS-DB cycle- 3 attacks under IAS, 2.63 seconds - average 4.3 attacks with doublestrike, add 130 damage from skills.

Same 2.63 seconds for fury- 5.4 attacks, no additional damage.

5.4 - 4.3 = average 1.1 more attacks under fury, 130/1.1 = 118. So you need to cram over 118 external damage bonus on your character for fury to beat DB... good luck.

As the OP mentioned the main advantage here is slightly better SY maintenence... but it's really slight once you do the numbers. In theory there could be some skill slot/utility advantage but I've yet to see some good things stuck in the empty slots, and these have to be skills you can use while attacking.

Bobby2 · Apr 22, 2009, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

Oh and I might note that Moebius/Death Blossom is actually not maintainable if you spam it too much, at least not in any ordinary team build.

...

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