Curse

Killuminati21 · May 06, 2009, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

K. You asked.

[golden fox [email protected]][wild [email protected]][death [email protected]][moebius [email protected]][critical agility][critical [email protected]][save yourselves][asuran scan]

[golden fox [email protected]][wild [email protected]][death [email protected]][moebius [email protected]][critical agility][critical [email protected]][save yourselves][asuran scan]

That much lower dps to be a game changer? Probably not, but I guess to each his own.

Bobby2 · May 06, 2009, 09:28 PM // 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killuminati21

That much lower dps to be a game changer? Probably not

Wrong.

/12chars

Killuminati21 · May 06, 2009, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

Wrong.

/12chars

Good explanation. Glad we had this chat.

Maneo Ranae · May 06, 2009, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Since you were talking about Critical Defenses lowering damage output,... If you look at it like that, SY does the exact same thing. I'm not saying it's a bad skill, because it's great, but damage-wise, Critical Defenses and SY have the same use -- none at all.

Bobby2 · May 06, 2009, 09:42 PM // 21:42

It's self-explanatory to -most- people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killuminati21

The problem with crit defenses personally, is I notice it tends to fall of between targets if they aren't balled up. Instead of casting the 10e skill every time it falls off, with [Flashing Blades] you cast once and focus on dps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killuminati21

This elite alone solves the biggest downside of assassin for me, dying.

Guess you're beyond redemption

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maneo Ranae

Since you were talking about Critical Defenses lowering damage output,... If you look at it like that, SY does the exact same thing. I'm not saying it's a bad skill, because it's great, but damage-wise, Critical Defenses and SY have the same use -- none at all.

This is where it pays off to be altruistic. SY! takes care of a lot of hate (a LOT). That means that across the entire team, there are more slots to spend on offense/utility.

EDIT: zomg got ninja'd.

Shadow Slave · May 06, 2009, 09:43 PM // 21:43

'Cept that SY is imba and keeps your team alive, so they too can deal damage.

Jaigoda · May 06, 2009, 09:56 PM // 21:56

I think monks would be much more happy for a squishy frontliner to bring an extra skill for defense than a tad more damage. Because if you're dead you do, you know, 0 DPS. And in the last 2 bars, just bring GPS instead of the crappy lead-offhand to get to the damage faster and bring an extra slot for Critical Eye/Strike. Unless you're in low-level PvE where things die too fast to get the skill recharge from MS, at which point it doesn't ****ing matter.

This really isn't that hard, people.

EDIT: like three people got in before me. "SY!" is great and all, but isn't that what an imbagon is for? And again, if you're a squishy frontliner and if everyone else has 160+AL, you're going to turn into a huge target for AI to beat the crap out of you, and look at that, you've only got a little bit of defense so you're going to be staring at the floor (dealing 0 DPS...) much of the time.

kthxbai

Unreal Havoc · May 07, 2009, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maneo Ranae

Since you were talking about Critical Defenses lowering damage output,... If you look at it like that, SY does the exact same thing. I'm not saying it's a bad skill, because it's great, but damage-wise, Critical Defenses and SY have the same use -- none at all.

Lowering damage output? Lol! Seriously?

Save Yourselves is unstrippable partywide damage reduction. Maintainable +100al on your whole party is strong! I'd happily sacrifice a little bit of damage to help contribute to keeping my team alive.

So, Save Yourselves? Or Critical Defenses? Hmm I know which I'll bring along...

[Critical Agility][Critical Defenses][Critical Eye][Golden Phoenix Strike][Death Blossom][Moebius Strike][Save Yourselves][Optional]

How about bring both and keep your Monks even more happy if they don't know how to use Protective Spirit or Aegis?

Or you could just run two frontliners with Save Yourselves and problem solved.

Shadow Slave · May 07, 2009, 12:04 AM // 00:04

Not everybody brings an Imbagon -

If you are the 'squishie' frontliner, the target of choice - the rest of your party buffed with SY and killing stuff ~ the monks job becomes quite simple, and you should not die... uknowY??

Clue: [Protective Spirit] + Healsnstuff!!1! (Oh...and the enemy is dead)

kthxbai2u

Bowstring Badass · May 07, 2009, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Slave

Not everybody brings an Imbagon -

If you are the 'squishie' frontliner, the target of choice - the rest of your party buffed with SY and killing stuff ~ the monks job becomes quite simple, and you should not die... uknowY??

Clue: [Protective Spirit] + Healsnstuff!!1! (Oh...and the enemy is dead)

kthxbai2u

Honestly one of the best posts in this thread. :|

Jaigoda · May 07, 2009, 01:32 AM // 01:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Slave

Not everybody brings an Imbagon -

If you are the 'squishie' frontliner, the target of choice - the rest of your party buffed with SY and killing stuff ~ the monks job becomes quite simple, and you should not die... uknowY??

Clue: [Protective Spirit] + Healsnstuff!!1! (Oh...and the enemy is dead)

kthxbai2u

Clue: Use both SY and CD and let your monk do... Oh wait, he won't really have to do anything because everyone's taking next to 0 damage.

Asguard · May 07, 2009, 01:58 AM // 01:58

[Sever Artery][whirlwind attack][final thrust]["finish him!"][seeping wound][critical agility][way of the master][critical defense]

very funny bar to run with.. but thats just me.. maintainable 13+dps (at 12 critical) as well as some hard hitting crits.. spike with final blow and finish him simultaneously for deep wound, cracked armor, and 142+base attack*non crit

and whirlwind is optional. take w/e u want in it's stead

Shadow Slave · May 07, 2009, 03:32 AM // 03:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaigoda

Clue: Use both SY and CD and let your monk do... Oh wait, he won't really have to do anything because everyone's taking next to 0 damage.

Ohhhh....not content with wasting skill slots, you hope to waste party slots? lolz.

Think about what you wrote.

If everyone is taking next to 0dmg...your Mr/Mrs Monk might juuust have a lil energy spare to do their job of keeping you alive.

Meanwhile, you kill stuff.

Like Naruto does.

Bobby2 · May 07, 2009, 03:37 AM // 03:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

How about bring both and keep your Monks even more happy if they don't know how to use Protective Spirit or Aegis?

And so, we arrive at the core of the issue...

zwei2stein · May 07, 2009, 06:48 AM // 06:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Slave

'Cept that SY is imba and keeps your team alive, so they too can deal damage.

Here we have winner!

Anyway, even without it, [Critical Agility] moves your AL to warrior levels. Its not like you are squishy anymore, and if we take prot spirit into account, you are not squishy at all. Since your monks really, really want to bring that skill for HM, you can spend your crit defences slot on anything. If it is SY!, you are getting bonus points.

Jaigoda · May 07, 2009, 03:08 PM // 15:08

So you're saying that a bar like this:

[Critical Agility][Critical Defenses][Critical Eye][Golden Phoenix Strike][Death Blossom][Moebius Strike][Save Yourselves][Asuran Scan]

Is actually sacrificing damage??? This actually will usually do more damage considering you skip the lead attack and go straight in to MS>DB spam, as compared to most Moebius builds. If they've got a ton of block stances in the area, maybe the lead-offhand is warranted, but even then you could always just bring a warrior hero with Wild Blow. Condsidering you probably only will need 1 monk since everyone's taking tiny bits of damage, that'll leave you with 7 slots to fill in plenty of damage. Seriously, if you're running [Save Yourselves] then you might as well just take [Critical Defenses].

Bobby2 · May 07, 2009, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Sigh. I give up. Just like it'll always feel like a wasted slot to me, so there are people swearing by its merits.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaigoda

This actually will usually do more damage considering you skip the lead attack and go straight in to MS>DB spam, as compared to most Moebius builds. If they've got a ton of block stances in the area, maybe the lead-offhand is warranted

Yezzz Unreal makes good barz ya?

Anyways, what you said is true in theory. In (my) reality stuff dies quickly enough for the 8s recharge on GPS to be annoying, tipping the balance in favour of GFS-Wild.

Also, unblockability is nice. GFS-Wild doesn't have to wait for a called Rigor to start wailing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaigoda

even then you could always just bring a warrior hero with Wild Blow

...nah.

Shadow Slave · May 07, 2009, 03:52 PM // 15:52

In a word : Yes

[Critical Defenses] Doesn't deal any damage last I checked.
[Golden Phoenix Strike] - Has obvious weaknesses -
[Wild Strike] > [Wild Blow].....Ask your Warrior Hero.

With [Critical Agility] you are landing your lead + offhand in literally seconds ~
Lower recharge, therefore you are able to switch targets quicker if you've yet to land MS ~
Its already unblockable - and removes a stance - and doesnt require [Wild Blow] (+10 points) ~

If you are only bringing one monk - I'd recommend killing things quickly...and playing Hard Mode.

EDIT: Dammit Bobby Uninja!

Jaigoda · May 07, 2009, 03:54 PM // 15:54

GPS has no recharge when you use Moebius, eh? I'd say 90%+ of the time I can get the <50% clause to hit and recharge Moebius. The other 10% where you have to wait 1-2 autoattacks before it recharges is worth it for bar compression.

But yeah, I'll admit that if block stances are prominent then you might not be able to fit in CD (but heroes are meant to be your b*tches, so bring stuff on them if you can), but otherwise you don't really have an excuse in my eyes.

EDIT: Shadow got in before me. What I'm saying is you're sacrificing next to no damage for more self defense which is only going to make it easier on the monk. Wild Blow is nice, but there's not much point bringing it when there aren't a lot of block stances around.

Bobby2 · May 07, 2009, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaigoda

GPS has no recharge when you use Moebius, eh? I'd say 90%+ of the time I can get the <50% clause to hit and recharge Moebius.

Quote:

Originally Posted by me, last post

Anyways, what you said is true in theory. In (my) reality stuff dies quickly enough for the 8s recharge on GPS to be annoying, tipping the balance in favour of GFS-Wild.

Translation:
GPS-DB.... shit, it's dead

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaigoda

But yeah, I'll admit that if block stances are prominent then you might not be able to fit in CD (but heroes are meant to be your b*tches, so bring stuff on them if you can), but otherwise you don't really have an excuse in my eyes.

[aegis] and [protective spirit] are bitch skills pur sang, and they're not gonna have to apply the latter to any other party member anyway.