Curse

Mr. Undisclosed · Oct 13, 2009, 01:45 AM // 01:45

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Originally Posted by Lieutenant Banana

And why is this? 90% of any given group in the game is a PUG. People run PUGs for missions, for quests, for vanq runs, for dungeons, for high-end areas...I'd say basing my findings on the form of grouping that is by far the most dominant one in the game to be fairly logical.

Pugs are also the same people that run warriors with firestorm and think nukers>>>>>>everything. If you're going to base these things off people playing the game base it off the enlightened people who actually know what they're doing and are competent. Never seen people pug vanqs or dungeons in my years of playing this game unless you're counting people buying runs. I also don't see many people pugging at all. Most outposts for missions and such are near dead as most of the people playing the game have had it for a while and have beat it. Only elite areas I've seen people look for pugs in is UWSC and DoA in the ursan days.

Carnivorous Cupcake · Oct 13, 2009, 02:38 PM // 14:38

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Originally Posted by Bobby2

AP - Shadow Fang still feels leet as hell.

I said might be! D:

~ Dan ~ · Oct 13, 2009, 05:19 PM // 17:19

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Originally Posted by Perfected Shadow

if you read more carefully (if at all), the OP is referring to pve.

I read it, and he didn't mention PvE. He talked about SF yes, but his summary of the sin being dead could easily have been applying to PvP.

But in any case, for PvE you still have AP caller, A/D crit scythe, moebius. That's 3 very different builds. Good enough.

Perfected Shadow · Oct 14, 2009, 03:15 AM // 03:15

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Originally Posted by ~ Dan ~

I read it, and he didn't mention PvE. He talked about SF yes, but his summary of the sin being dead could easily have been applying to PvP.

The summary was this:

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Originally Posted by OP

"What?" I hear you cry. "How can this be? The Assassin is one of the most-played classes in the game!" To which I offer one simple reply, which is likely to get me summarily banned from further postings in this forum (but what fun is life without risks?): the PermaFormer isn't a true Assassin.

Yes I even re-read the whole post again, his argument was that the assassin class is dead because of perma SF. I.e. his summary only applies to pve, as I pointed out earlier.

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But in any case, for PvE you still have AP caller, A/D crit scythe, moebius. That's 3 very different builds. Good enough.

Indeed, but after SF dies, sins would be unwanted simply because most pugs still stand by 'nukers'. But that's their loss I guess.

Shanks R Us · Oct 16, 2009, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Ever since perma started becoming popular [back before the "nerf" anet did making it more annoying" I've been using it to run in PvE. Mainly around the Tyrian continent. I don't do the end game shit as much as others.

Also, my assassin is my main. He is in no way shape or form my "perma," he's my assassin. Yes most of the things I tend to do nowadays usually involve the use of SF, but be honest with yourself, 58 day old man. What else is there to do? Just because the skill is good is no reason to hate on it. Just because it works well enough to make it "dominate" a class, as you say, is no reason to bash on it. It should just inspire you to make one yourself, stop crying about everyone else doing it, and stop making ridiculous flame-bait threads.

_Nihilist_ · Oct 17, 2009, 12:21 AM // 00:21

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Originally Posted by Shanks R Us

Just because the skill is good is no reason to hate on it. Just because it works well enough to make it "dominate" a class, as you say, is no reason to bash on it. It should just inspire you to make one yourself, stop crying about everyone else doing it, and stop making ridiculous flame-bait threads.

1) You're right, Shanks, if a skill is good, there is no reason to hate it. What you fail to realize, though, is that Shadow Form isn't good, it's broken. Ask any player who understands the game mechanics at all. Near-invulnerability is never a good concept in a game where death happens.

2) The OP did make an Assassin, it was his/her first character.

3) The OP explained his/her stance, and frankly, not many solid arguments against the original complaint have been raised. I don't see how that makes the Thread flame-bait, unless you take into account the fact that PermaSF abusers are going to get upset, and gladly try to make this Thread a flame war.

4) Just because the skill balancers didn't do their research and didn't take into account how absolutely absurd it was to allow fully maintainable near-invulnerability onto the stage doesn't mean that what they did was a good decision.

5) There is nothing wrong with using SF. It is a skill that exists in GW. It has existed since Factions. However, when it was first released, you paid a price for having a short time of near-invulnerability... when it ended, you lost all but 5...50 health, now, you can maintain it indefinitely, getting all of the benefits without suffering the downsides. That is ABUSING a skill, not using it.

Bobby2 · Oct 17, 2009, 01:06 AM // 01:06

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Originally Posted by _Nihilist_

5) There is nothing wrong with using SF. It is a skill that exists in GW. It has existed since Factions. However, when it was first released, you paid a price for having a short time of near-invulnerability... when it ended, you lost all but 5...50 health, now, you can maintain it indefinitely, getting all of the benefits without suffering the downsides. That is ABUSING a skill, not using it.

You can't blame players for utilising a skill to its fullest potential. If anything, blame the developers for allowing this to be possible.

btw, everyone knows ANet is perfectly okay with the situation. Indefinite SF still exists (after token lolnerfs), and despite popular belief the developers are neither blind nor deaf.

Sir Tieger · Oct 17, 2009, 01:39 AM // 01:39

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Originally Posted by Bobby2

You can't blame players for utilising a skill to its fullest potential. If anything, blame the developers for allowing this to be possible.

btw, everyone knows ANet is perfectly okay with the situation. Indefinite SF still exists (after token lolnerfs), and despite popular belief the developers are neither blind nor deaf.

You quote #5 obviously without reading #4.

With regards to OP i do kinda agree, trying to find a group for any high end area is a nightmare unless you do everything with Guildies.
Purely because people see A/ accept your invite find out your not perma then normally kick you. Its sad but true.

Hardly anyone randomways the tougher areas, its all SC SC SC SC.

And with regards to all those who posted saying there are very effective builds for sin for pve besides SF(Crit Scythe, MS/DB, JS etc). Yes you are correct, but how many groups (beginner areas maybe, but High End?) will actually accept you running those builds?

I suppose we should just be glad that our heros cant say: NO! IM NOT PARTYING WITH YOU, YOUR NOT SF!

dotryok · Oct 17, 2009, 03:42 AM // 03:42

Personally my GvG team run a sin that run WC ganker buid (OwZjgod8IOsZFWCz4z/OHTwuB) might even use a but that is one of the only times i really see sins in PvP. just to throw this out there my defition of PvP is HA, TA, and GvG...lol all the rest i call noob PvP stuff

And also i run PvE sin ...i get bored and just put skills together on a build and run with it in HM but that is just me

Bobby2 · Oct 17, 2009, 10:51 AM // 10:51

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Originally Posted by Sir Tieger

You quote #5 obviously without reading #4.

The use of the word 'abuse' is incorrect.

_Nihilist_ · Oct 19, 2009, 07:50 PM // 19:50

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Originally Posted by Bobby2

The use of the word 'abuse' is incorrect.

No it's not. Check dictionary.com:

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to use wrongly or improperly; misuse

And yes, PermaSF is abuse. It is a skill that has an intended downside/adverse affect, and by using a loophole that allows the positive to be gained without suffering the negative, it is misuse.

Bobby2 · Oct 19, 2009, 07:55 PM // 19:55

The devs fully intended permaSF to be possible. By what (whose) standards is it 'wrong' or 'improper', then?

BlackSephir · Oct 19, 2009, 08:05 PM // 20:05

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Originally Posted by _Nihilist_

And yes, PermaSF is abuse. It is a skill that has an intended downside/adverse affect, and by using a loophole that allows the positive to be gained without suffering the negative, it is misuse.

So Fleeting Stability is p broken?

reaper with no name · Oct 19, 2009, 08:41 PM // 20:41

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Originally Posted by BlackSephir

So Fleeting Stability is p broken?

The skill description specifically states that it only causes knockdown if it lasts it's full duration, demonstrating that the ability to remove it prematurely to avoid the end effect was intended.

SF was not intended to be maintained. When it was first introduced, there was no Deadly Paradox or any of those other things allowing it to be maintained. The skill was temporary near-invulnerability. And it was balanced. It was not until later that additional skills and consumables unintentionally caused it to become maintainable.

BlackSephir · Oct 19, 2009, 08:57 PM // 20:57

And SF causes health lose IF it ends.
Damn, you'd think a dervish would know how enchantments work.

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SF was not intended to be maintained.

It's been maintainable since Nightfall, Deadly Paradox and Arcane Echo my. I think even AN would've noticed since then and taken some action if it wasn't supposed to be maintained.

Tenebrae · Oct 20, 2009, 12:05 AM // 00:05

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Originally Posted by BlackSephir

It's been maintainable since Nightfall, Deadly Paradox and Arcane Echo my. I think even AN would've noticed since then and taken some action if it wasn't supposed to be maintained.

Yes because like we all know , Anet doesnt make mistakes and if they do , they make things right in an update in less than 2 days.

/sarcasm

No , it shouldnt be mantained and when that was possible that skill = broken. Now i think they are :
- Ignoring problem completly
- Thinking about a total rework
It wont change sins tasks except farming so dont really think it matters so much.

BlackSephir · Oct 20, 2009, 12:26 AM // 00:26

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Originally Posted by Tenebrae

Yes because like we all know , Anet doesnt make mistakes and if they do , they make things right in an update in less than 2 days.

Yes, because leaving something game-breaking unfixed for ~3 years is something even AN is capable of doing.

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No , it shouldnt be mantained

Becaaaauuuuseee?
Obsidian Flesh also shouldn't be maintainable- after all it recharges longer than it lasts.
SF is broken, but your "IT SHOULDNT BE MAINTANABLE BECAUSE THIS WAY YOU CAN MAINTAIN IT" is idiotic, stupid and moronic.

Tenebrae · Oct 20, 2009, 09:02 AM // 09:02

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Originally Posted by BlackSephir

Yes, because leaving something game-breaking unfixed for ~3 years is something even AN is capable of doing.

No , because as you can see , they did.

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Originally Posted by BlackSephir

Becaaaauuuuseee?
Obsidian Flesh also shouldn't be maintainable- after all it recharges longer than it lasts.

Because you say so ? are you comparing Obsidian to SF ? LMAO. Dude check the effects and the downsides ..... what do they have in common ? Being elite and "can not be target of enemy spells" thats it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

SF is broken, but your "IT SHOULDNT BE MAINTANABLE BECAUSE THIS WAY YOU CAN MAINTAIN IT" is idiotic, stupid and moronic.

Oh yes , i guess throwing BS on me and that pointless, useless and worthless Obsidian Flesh sentence gives you the right to call names to anyone who disagrees with you.
No , it shouldnt be maintanable , everyone knows it , EVERYONE knows THAT and its "invincible" effect is what makes it broken. Scream and insult me but you are not changing that fact.

BlackSephir · Oct 20, 2009, 10:48 AM // 10:48

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Originally Posted by Tenebrae

No , because as you can see , they did.

They didn't because when perma SF was first possible dungeons and uwsc didn't exist.

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Because you say so ?

Because the game's mechanics say so, junior.

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are you comparing Obsidian to SF ? LMAO. Dude check the effects and the downsides ..... what do they have in common ? Being elite and "can not be target of enemy spells" thats it.

You have absolutely no idea what the hell I'm talking about, do you? I know the downsides and I'm not talking if/how they're game breaking. I'm saying that maintaining an enchant (or a stance) is fine. Of course the difference is too subtle for you.

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No , it shouldnt be maintanable , everyone knows it , EVERYONE knows THAT and its "invincible" effect is what makes it broken. Scream and insult me but you are not changing that fact.

It honestly feels like I'm dealing with a big headed kid who's drooling on his keyboard.
If everyone knew that enchants shouldn't be maintainable there wouldn't be such enchants in the game. And lo, behold, there are. Even without cutting their recharge time.

Tenebrae · Oct 20, 2009, 12:20 PM // 12:20

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Originally Posted by BlackSephir

Because the game's mechanics say so, junior.

You cant argue nothing in favor of SF with "game mechanics" on the same sentence and no , im too far away of your "junior" state kiddo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

You have absolutely no idea what the hell I'm talking about, do you? I know the downsides and I'm not talking if/how they're game breaking. I'm saying that maintaining an enchant (or a stance) is fine. Of course the difference is too subtle for you.

You are like a fish out of the water. Maintaining a stance has nothing to do here even Deadly Paradox exists , maintaining enchants is fine .... some of them are bonds but when that enchant prevents 90%+ of ench removal and makes you almost invincible NO , hell no , is not fine. Maybe the difference between any enchant and SF is too little for you but for the rest of the world .... is not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

It honestly feels like I'm dealing with a big headed kid who's drooling on his keyboard.

Yeah another insult , you are very mature ... i dont think im the kid here.

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Originally Posted by BlackSephir

If everyone knew that enchants shouldn't be maintainable there wouldn't be such enchants in the game. And lo, behold, there are. Even without cutting their recharge time.

Who is talking about "enchants" here ? the voices in your head ? assassin thread, talking about SF . There are underused and totally underpowered skills no one uses and no one boosts them , so there are broken and overpowered skills everyone uses and no one nerfs them , whats your point ? NONE. Done with you kiddo , continue your /ragescream , im not going offtopic to feed you , theres your free insult card.