Curse

Lumanis · May 01, 2006, 07:46 PM // 19:46

I quickly decided that assassins where all about the knockdowns (+falling spider). This one is alot of fun, and I expect it will get very popular.
I started with the shove idea, and did a ton of testing to optimize the build.

Palm + Spider + Horns of Ox
Shove + Spider + Twisting Fangs

A/W

Shove [E] (Knockdown for Falling Spider)
Falling Spider (Poison)
Twisting Fangs (Deep Wound + Bleed)
Horns of the Ox (Knockdown / Alternate for Twisting Fangs)
Iron Palm (Knockdown for Falling Spider)
Res Signet
Siphon Speed (Hex for Iron palm, also stops runners)
Healing Signet

You basically always start combos from a knockdown, you have 2 openers and 2 finishers. One of your finishers itelf is another knockdown.
I've also found that you can wait for your horns of the ox... I've wated about 4 seconds after the Falling spider, and it still does the knockdown.
This is helpful, as you can interupt a caster / healer on demand while your waiting for your next knockown opener.

This build is badass in 4v4, he barely needs help to kill a monk, and can kill certain monks builds all by himself. I think it's just badass in general.
Def owns most assassin builds 1v1, since they do a cheezy opener, and you do a knockdown + finish your combo.

Vurtalna · May 13, 2006, 10:33 PM // 22:33

4 words:

balanced stance
or
flashing blades

and, you can wait as long as you want to make a dual attack after an offhand as long as your enemy is still alive, as far as my experience goes.

Xasew · May 13, 2006, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vurtalna

4 words:

Balanced Stance
or
Flashing Blades

Now that, my dear friend, is a retarded comment right there.

1. Balanced Stance is one of the most rare skills you see. Because it sucks.

2. Saying Flashing Blades is like when someone comes up with a Warrior build you run in and say Blinding Flash. We know things have counters.

3. In case you are somehow implying that the original poster should put those 2 skills in his build, I suggest you say it more clearly. And btw that idea would suck.

And that build seems pretty good to me, good thinking with Shove btw.

LaserLight · May 14, 2006, 04:48 AM // 04:48

Hm hm...been working on a Shovesin myself. Concept is just awesome, it works so well with the Assassin's natural style. Just awesome.

Course, mine didn't focus exclusively on KD. Let me go pull up the Word doc...there it is.

Wild Blow
Shove [E]
Falling Spider
Twisting Fangs
Shadow Refuge
Shadow of Haste
Dash
ReSig

That's the list I used. Designed more for mobility than a heavy knockdown char. Get in hit your attacks, and bolt. Went with more Shadow than you did because I didn't relish the thought of -40 armor in my self-heals. Warriors can take it, most Assassins can't. Still...got ideas now. Going to rework mine. And good work on yours, though I'd recommend looking into a few more support skills. Ye fell into the usual Assassin trap, packed the skillbar with virtually nothing but attacks. Doesn't work well on most Warrs, doesn't work well on most Assassins.

Miakoda · May 14, 2006, 11:46 AM // 11:46

I still prefer shock. and glyph for recall.

Novalon · May 15, 2006, 03:37 PM // 15:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miakoda

I still prefer shock. and glyph for recall.

Could you please elaborate on this? I understand that shock is great for KD, thus negating the need for an elite, but I am unsure what you mean by glyph for recall.

I suppose you mean Glyph of lesser energy, now that I think about it, because that would totally negate the energy cost, however, there is still the exhaustion of Shock to deal with it.

So if we apply this to the original build to the OP posted:

Quote:

Palm + Spider + Horns of Ox
Shove + Spider + Twisting Fangs

A/W

Shove [E] (Knockdown for Falling Spider)
Falling Spider (Poison)
Twisting Fangs (Deep Wound + Bleed)
Horns of the Ox (Knockdown / Alternate for Twisting Fangs)
Iron Palm (Knockdown for Falling Spider)
Res Signet
Siphon Speed (Hex for Iron palm, also stops runners)
Healing Signet

We get:

[A/E]

Shock (Knockdown for Falling Spider)
Falling Spider (Poison)
Twisting Fangs (Deep Wound + Bleed)
Horns of the Ox (Knockdown / Alternate for Twisting Fangs)
Iron Palm (Knockdown for Falling Spider)
Glyph of Lesser Energy (no rez, I'm usually dead in the event I'm asked to rez anyway)
Recall (To get away when you need to, can replace with Aura of Displacement [E] if you so choose)
Shadow Refuge (Does not drop armor like Heal Sig)

Any comments?

TAZTG · May 15, 2006, 04:43 PM // 16:43

Good idea with Shove to start off. Falling Spider doesn't actually require a Lead Attack. I wonder if you could work Entangling Asp in there somehow. It also has a knockdown.

My Sweet Revenga · May 17, 2006, 03:10 AM // 03:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vurtalna

4 words:

balanced stance
or
flashing blades

That's 5 words

Miakoda · May 18, 2006, 01:30 AM // 01:30

"We get:

[A/E]

Shock (Knockdown for Falling Spider)
Falling Spider (Poison)
Twisting Fangs (Deep Wound + Bleed)
Moebius Strike
Glyph of Lesser Energy (no rez, I'm usually dead in the event I'm asked to rez anyway)
Recall (To get away when you need to, can replace with Aura of Displacement [E] if you so choose)
Shadow Refuge (Does not drop armor like Heal Sig)

Any comments?"

there.. fixed

Due to energy return from crits and 3 pips from Recall exhaustion isn't really a problem as long as you don't try and spam it. I find I would rather have the points into shadow arts for a better heal and Dark Escape (to lead into battle) rather than put any into air.

More often then not enemies are either at half or below half health and moebius is just a nice reset for twisting for the next target, and of course a nice damage bonus too, As always Blind etc will be a problem, The only real problem with Shock is DP and in that way is not as good as Shove, one gives -10 energy and the other disables your heal and non attack skills for a few seconds.

Both have good advantages, Ele for the KD and Glyphs, warrior for the KD and stance/shouts if you feel so inclined to use any, In the end I chose not to invest attribute points into them for pvp - 16 dagger - 13 crit - 3 shadow arts (pve 16 - 10 - 6 - 6 tactics or air), Even if you have a longer attack chain you can still miss etc so I prefer a shorter chain, also if moebius doesn't finish off that boss who almost died, you can use twisting straight away again and wait out the exhaustion and recharge after you recall out (if ele). Or if you find yourself shut down recall out to your friendly target and aid them instead.. Or just wait for removal/end of hex/condition.

I used it in randoms and alliance battles and worked great, however DP will screw it up, It's far from the best build but like others I am attatched too much to Falling Spider+Twisting Fangs and don't see the need for more than 3-4 attacks, so while in pve I'd go for Shock, and pvp i'd go with Shove. Bummer that Horns of the Ox has to follow another attack :/

Remember you are not leading the attack so the enemy should not be at full health when you reach it, so Moebius should be working great in that instance, hell most non boss mobs are dead after Twisting.

If someone could find a nice short high damage combo that recycles fast and leads with a KD post it please and I will love you forever.

I personally think KD is still one of.. if not 'The' best ways to setup an attack.

Ideally ANET should change Horns of the Ox to have no previous attack requirement so we end up with .. Horns/Spider/Twisting/Moebius < start over, Then Assassins would be right where I'd like them attack wise

At the end of the day, i'm still not happy with the Assassin in general, but with a few tweaks and more time I may delete the warrior after all.

Symir · May 18, 2006, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Nice looking build, but what attribute point setup do you use?

Miakoda · Jun 11, 2006, 09:13 AM // 09:13

Certainly the A/E seems to be gaining popularity lately in GvG, could be observer error however.

fallot · Jun 11, 2006, 09:43 AM // 09:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symir

Nice looking build, but what attribute point setup do you use?

Same here, it looks solid but I want to know how you've spread over 4 attributes.

MistressLust · Jun 12, 2006, 01:28 PM // 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miakoda

Certainly the A/E seems to be gaining popularity lately in GvG, could be observer error however.

they are ok

Claymore · Jun 12, 2006, 04:19 PM // 16:19

At the moment I use Jagged strike> Iron palm> falling spider> critical Strike
I still usually have time to drop jagged strike again to help the poison degen along.
I was using, Jagged>entangling asp> Falling spider> critical strike, but I found without the poison stacking from asp and spider the energy wasn't worth it.

Back to the first build, I also swap critical strike out for twisting fangs sometimes, with critical eye to back up the energy, I hardly have energy issues.

Jam Jar · Feb 29, 2008, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vurtalna

4 words:

balanced stance
or
flashing blades

I'm pretty sure that's five.

Painbringer · Feb 29, 2008, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xasew

1. Balanced Stance is one of the most rare skills you see. Because it sucks.

You are correct unless you are a running build it is not seen to much, but I have used a solid tactics build with it combined with [skill]drunken blow[/skill] no need to fall down

Edit- I need to read dates Hooked on phonics must not of worked for me