Curse

awry · Feb 19, 2011, 09:06 PM // 21:06

It was fun doing aoe 200+ dmg with deep wound while it lasted.

It was fun ripping prophecies enemies in hm into ridiculous gibs with strength of honor overkill. I loved the way the scythe made that lovely sound as it cut into enemies, followed by their shrieks of death and the laments of their women. Undead enemies, you guys were smacked out of the game faster than a mod banhammers nude pics.

Farewell CritScythe, you will be missed.

Outerworld · Feb 19, 2011, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Almost brings a tear to my eye...

FoxBat · Feb 19, 2011, 10:11 PM // 22:11

I can get around 100 DPS with deep wound spam so far, but yeah not nearly the same.

Chrisworld · Feb 19, 2011, 10:16 PM // 22:16

That sucks... But I'm looking forward to finding some new setups with the dervish soon here.

AndrewSX · Feb 19, 2011, 10:28 PM // 22:28

What really sucks is having dedicated the destroyer scythe on my sin, instead move it on a derv.

ensoriki · Feb 19, 2011, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Ooh Futarama.

I bet it still works anyways it's just not ridiculous.
From an above poster, he's still getting 100 damage?
Thats more than enough.

Spiritz · Feb 19, 2011, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Come on guys - crit scythe sin hasnt died ... hes finding better skills .
Ive taken the 6 derv skills an changed my build and i was quite surprised with the results.
OwpjMup8qRfbDYcfQXyk5iLi1gA
Far as i recall atm im only using a +1 crit head with +1crit , zeleous scythe of enchanting .
Aos if you have a mob round you is like 100blades lol.
This is far from complete as im going to test a few diff skills but it does work.
So GO back and appologize to your sins for thinking they were useless :P

shoyon456 · Feb 20, 2011, 12:22 AM // 00:22

1) Critscythe will not be missed and it was an abomination.

2) Assassins with scythes are not useless, just now they can't abuse it more than primary Dervishes, which is the way it should have been from the start.

Bad Company Sin · Feb 20, 2011, 12:27 AM // 00:27

Lol, crit scythe is just Lazyway to rush through the game. ppl should come up with more original builds.

Zodiac Meteor · Feb 20, 2011, 01:55 AM // 01:55

Wota sins > CritScythe Sins.

It's true.

Elfblade · Feb 20, 2011, 02:17 AM // 02:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiritz

OwpjMup8qRfbDYcfQXyk5iLi1gA
:P

The problem is the attribute spread and at 6 earth prayers vow of strength is dealing low damage compared to death blossom. The shame is that vow strength is one of the only elites worth taking the other one being onslaught.

The other problem of the update for assassins being that almost all scythe attacks require you to remove a dervish enchantment. Which i think is impractical due to the attribute spread.

I think like Spiritz there are still options. I am currently trying out onslaught( 6 wind prayers), reap impurities, chilling victory and a hero with withering aura. it shows nice numbers so far.

Zodiac is saying it correct though we still got wota sins which were better than crit scythe sins.

syphonus · Feb 20, 2011, 02:38 AM // 02:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

Wota sins > CritScythe Sins.

It's true.

Always was, and it's why I'm not gonna miss critscythe.

Bad Company Sin · Feb 20, 2011, 02:42 AM // 02:42

Jagged Strike Fox Fangs Death Blossom > Scythe

Spiritz · Feb 20, 2011, 12:02 PM // 12:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elfblade

The problem is the attribute spread and at 6 earth prayers vow of strength is dealing low damage compared to death blossom. The shame is that vow strength is one of the only elites worth taking the other one being onslaught.

The other problem of the update for assassins being that almost all scythe attacks require you to remove a dervish enchantment. Which i think is impractical due to the attribute spread.

I think like Spiritz there are still options. I am currently trying out onslaught( 6 wind prayers), reap impurities, chilling victory and a hero with withering aura. it shows nice numbers so far.

Zodiac is saying it correct though we still got wota sins which were better than crit scythe sins.

The 3 scythe skills i was using im not bothered about any extra dmg from derv ench removal - the elite is basically used like 100b is , 2 andren skills because they are cheap and the energy one is cheap and fast recharge.
crit agility easily makes up speed - and crit agility is similar to wota .
And the elite also seems to trigger on each attacked foe ( max 3 from scythe ) so in a nice ball 3 foes causing the extra dmg.

Overall regardless of which is better - not everyone likes sin with daggers - i hate chaining attacks which can fail part way thru and being left with dagger attacks till recharge - scythes give better dmg sadly.We`re not comparing crit scythe to wota users but finding an alternative to the old build which is dead. R.I.P Old Crit Scythe Sins ... hello new varients

Elfblade · Feb 20, 2011, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Tried VoS (with 6 Earth prayers) out in a hm mission, it shows better number than a sin using 100b. luckily There are still options left though besides onslaught and VoS compared to before the update where there was only 1 base build with some variants.

You still have malicious strike as a nice attack skill and i am certainly into trying a more variety of builds.

Spiritz · Feb 20, 2011, 04:19 PM // 16:19

malicious strike i find needs a damn condition first which did put me off an remove from the original build but it did play its part.

LifeInfusion · Feb 20, 2011, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiritz

Come on guys - crit scythe sin hasnt died ... hes finding better skills .
Ive taken the 6 derv skills an changed my build and i was quite surprised with the results.
OwpjMup8qRfbDYcfQXyk5iLi1gA
Far as i recall atm im only using a +1 crit head with +1crit , zealous scythe of enchanting .
Aos if you have a mob round you is like 100blades lol.
This is far from complete as im going to test a few diff skills but it does work.
So GO back and appologize to your sins for thinking they were useless :P

Instead of chilling victory I'd run something else...

Quote:

Without teardowns, your options:
Crippling Victory = 5 adrenaline; 7s cripple, 26 earth damage
Reap Impurities = 5 adrenaline; +13 , 34 holy damage = +47
Chilling Victory = 6 adrenaline ; +13, 26 cold damage
Radiant scythe = 6 adrenaline; up to +24 damage ; +6 energy gain - used

Victorious Sweep = 5 energy 4 recharge ; +21 and 70 heal
Crippling sweep = 5 energy 6 recharge ; +26 to moving targets, 10s cripple
Zealous Sweep = 5 energy 10 recharge; +22 and 3energy/adrenaline gain per foe hit
Farmer's scythe = 5 energy 12 recharge or 0 if multi-hit ; +17
Lyssa's Assault = 5 energy 15 recharge; 8s disable

as I posted in Warrior forum, for 12 scythe spec

Ultimately the update amounts to 12 scythe and whatever the critical strikes skills can bring to the table vs 14 scythe and Mysticism (inherent +9 to 13 armor and Zealous Renewal, Balthazar's Rage, Eremite's Zeal and such). Critical Agility, Critical Eye,Way of the Master, Malicious Strike (+27 at 13 or +29 at 14) for example.

Dervishes have 25% IAS from Heart of Fury and Pious Fury now, so Assassins' advantage is minimal in terms of Critical Agility. Mysticism adds armor too, so the armor loss is maybe 10 at best and actually less on assassins when you take into account Vow of Piety (+24).

70+25 (critical agility)+10 from blessed insignia = 105 (110 if you run Nightstalker's)
70+15 (windwalker)+9 from mysticism (8+1 is pretty easy) = 94
80+20 (sentinel's) = 100

I think W/D is a better template these days than A/D though since critical hit damage was reduced (62 base on 60 armor targets, 44 on 80 armor, 31 on 100 armor instead of 80 on 60 armor, 57 on 80, 40 on 100) and +38 from power attack (+14% armor penetration) every 3 seconds or +38 from Body blow (+14% armor penetration) with chance for deep wound is not something possible with a Dervish.

For a A/D, you do get the benefit of +4 energy (13 crit strikes) every critical (with +42% chance from way of the master and critical eye +13% from critical strikes = +55% or +59% at 14 critical strikes) but I feel +3 unstrippable energy every attack with +38 every 3 seconds is more reliable since it takes 1 slot for WE). You also get the benefit of being able to push out +25 damage with Radiant scythe, without needing runes of attunement.

Some dervish enchantments don't need to be torn down and those are the ones of interest since they won't need mysticism for energy. Vow of Strength, Ebon Dust Aura.

So ultimately the basic skills you need for crit scythe are

13 crit strikes
12 scythe
6 in whatever you want (+1 if shadow arts or deadly arts)

1 Way of the Master
2 Critical Eye
3 Radiant Scythe (+25, +6 energy)
4 Victorious Sweep (+21 is not really great it's just the fastest recharge of 4s with no teardown and gives +70health if you get a kill)
5 Dodge This! (+20)/Farmer's Scythe (+17, it's pretty certain that you will crit, which makes it almost free)/Zealous Sweep (+22 and insta-charge Radiant Scythe)
6 Brawling Headbutt (70, but for KD)/Crippling Victory (just to use up adrenaline, helps with kiting)/Dash (IMS)/Test of Faith (if using Grenth's Grasp this gives a reliable enchant removal with an interrupt)
7 Critical agility
8 optional elite skill (Palm strike for KD?/Grenth's Grasp with 6 wind for condition immunity+cripple/Vow of Strength for +16/Ebon Dust Aura for +11 and lose blind every 20s...)

You could spec 6+1 in Shadow arts and run Shroud of Distress if survivability is an issue.

Reap impurities:
13 crit strikes
12 scythe
6 wind

1 Way of the Master
2 Critical Eye
3 Radiant Scythe (+25, +6 energy) - use on cooldown of Victorious Sweep or Farmer's Scythe, also if you need +6 energy
4 Victorious Sweep (+21 is not really great it's just the fastest recharge of 4s with no teardown and gives +70health if you get a kill)/ Farmer's Scythe if you can reliably hit 2+ enemies
5 Reap Impurities (+47)
6 Test of Faith (if using Grenth's Grasp this gives a reliable enchant removal with an interrupt)
7 Critical agility
8 Grenth's Grasp

Victorious Sweep/Farmer's Scythe-->Reap Impurities = +68 or +64
Radiant Scythe-->Reap Impurities = +72

Grenth's Grasp @ 6 gives 5sec cripple, which is plenty of time to use Reap Impurities. It also is more reliable than Crippling sweep which is 5 energy and 6 recharge with 10s cripple or Crippling Victory which is 5 adrenaline and 7s cripple with a low 26 earth damage.

EDIT: Keep in mind you can get +50 from Pious [email protected], and +28 from Irresistible sweep @14, albeit with a feeder enchantment like Rending aura/Staggering Force/Dust Cloak. +52 from Reap [email protected] isn't as reliable and you might remove something useful so it needs more careful play.

Since the fastest recharging Dervish attack is 4 seconds now (Victorious sweep) and Zealous Renewal gives +1 energy per hit and costs <5energy, Dervishes don't really need the insane energy management of Zealous Vow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elfblade

I agree that the dervish now is more equal with assassins and warriors, but we are discussing in this thread how to create new crit scythes and not which profession is now better at using the scythe. (although it is obvious out of the updated skills it is more geared at primary dervish because enchantment requirements and attribute spread)

Given that asuran scan has been nerfed along with BUH! and AoHM, I think discussing the options for making a A/D that can do better than a D/A or W/D (at least in terms of scythe damage) is valid. If you are making a critscythe, it better do something a D/W or A/any with daggers can't do. A A/D doesn't have SY! like a D/W or W/D.

Elfblade · Feb 20, 2011, 06:02 PM // 18:02

I agree that the dervish now is more equal with assassins and warriors, but we are discussing in this thread how to create new crit scythes and not which profession is now better at using the scythe. (although it is obvious out of the updated skills it is more geared at primary dervish because enchantment requirements and attribute spread)

Spiritz · Feb 20, 2011, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Thing is we never bother trying to make a sin better than d/ - out of all the professions sins get a raw deal with having toothpicks as weapons , stick on that having to use a damn attack chain to get actual dmg specially in hm - hell 7-17 in hm isnt much.
Scythes now have decent attack speed and even as basic dmg will out dmg daggers basic dmg - but its more dmg and abaility to hit 3 foes at once.
The question is - as a sin do you want be doing dmg and killing faster or even in a team would you want an efficient killing sin ?
You are only as strong as your weakest link and we all know attack chains can be blocked or broken same as casters can be shut down but casters dont rely on attack chains.
If you dislike a profession then dont use it - no one forces you to play or be any chr , i dont see ( tho a few team builds were made in gw ) of pure sins vq`ing every zone an dungeon etc all of the time , rarely have i seen 3 or more sins in a team .

Elfblade · Feb 20, 2011, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

Given that asuran scan has been nerfed along with BUH! and AoHM, I think discussing the options for making a A/D that can do better than a D/A or W/D (at least in terms of scythe damage) is valid. If you are making a critscythe, it better do something a D/W or A/any with daggers can't do. A A/D doesn't have SY! like a D/W or W/D.

but this is the assassin forum and that as this is a new update it is more interesting to know what are the Options are for A/D not the discussion in this thread which profession is better at a scythe. I am not disagreeing one is better or not ( i did not have the time for this).