Curse

Unreal Havoc · May 14, 2008, 02:46 PM // 14:46

You are unlikely to miss with a Flatbow if Favourable Winds is taken within the team (Barrage/Pet). Also normally you wait to allow aggro to settle around the Tank before firing Barrage into the mob.

You shouldn't be having problems with a Flatbow, if you are Igor then you're doing something wrong.

Super Igor · May 14, 2008, 02:58 PM // 14:58

I liek your last sentence.

But really no, the problem with flatbows is their huge arc and low accuracy, so some of your atacks may miss unless the mob is well stuck nehind the minion wall or snared or whatever, I also dont like taking FA spirit for some unknown reason, maybe because it takes some time to cast but it defo would have some sinergy with N/Rts MBaS.

Unreal Havoc · May 14, 2008, 03:13 PM // 15:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

I liek your last sentence.

But really no, the problem with flatbows is their huge arc and low accuracy, so some of your atacks may miss unless the mob is well stuck nehind the minion wall or snared or whatever, I also dont like taking FA spirit for some unknown reason, maybe because it takes some time to cast but it defo would have some sinergy with N/Rts MBaS.

Spirits should be taken by all Rangers (primary or secondary) in a Barrage/Pet team. Missing shouldn't be happening if aggro is allowed to settle properly, whether in a Barrage/Pet team or in a normal, somewhat balanced, PvE team, and that's regardless of what bow you are using.

Super Igor · May 14, 2008, 05:03 PM // 17:03

In a pug, were nobdy would give mobs any chance of setling I would use longbow>flatbow, spirit is helful unless you move fast thru the mobs and go out of its range before the spirit recharges.

petrorabbit · May 14, 2008, 05:05 PM // 17:05

I've always had fun with this build. Maybe add it to your AP Section?

[build=Deadly Arts Promise; OwBk0pe8nMikNpCDCji4bWNIuzCE]

for PvE, precast CA, then AP, DC, and 1-5. 230 unmitigated damage is very nasty.

If you want it playable by heroes, just replace [skill]You Move Like a Dwarf[/skill] with [skill]Iron Palm[/skill], and [skill]Critical Agility[/skill] with [skill]Tiger Stance[/skill]

Unreal Havoc · May 14, 2008, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

In a pug, were nobdy would give mobs any chance of setling I would use longbow>flatbow, spirit is helful unless you move fast thru the mobs and go out of its range before the spirit recharges.

Forget Barrage/Pet with PUG's lol. I'll take a guild team that knows what they're doing anyday.

Unreal Havoc · May 14, 2008, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by petrorabbit

I've always had fun with this build. Maybe add it to your AP Section?

[build=Deadly Arts Promise; OwBk0pe8nMikNpCDCji4bWNIuzCE]

for PvE, precast CA, then AP, DC, and 1-5. 230 unmitigated damage is very nasty.

If you want it playable by heroes, just replace [skill]You Move Like a Dwarf[/skill] with [skill]Iron Palm[/skill], and [skill]Critical Agility[/skill] with [skill]Tiger Stance[/skill]

I believe a similar concept is in the guide already. Better off using Lightning Reflexes though as it gives you an IAS and blocking (as I pointed out already) that is recharged by AP ready to use again, and Dark Prison to cover Assassins Promise because if AP is removed (hex removal does happen) it will mess up your builds energy managment and skill recharge.

petrorabbit · May 14, 2008, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

I believe a similar concept is in the guide already. Better off using Lightning Reflexes though as it gives you an IAS and blocking (as I pointed out already) that is recharged by AP ready to use again, and Dark Prison to cover Assassins Promise because if AP is removed (hex removal does happen) it will mess up your builds energy managment and skill recharge.

I used [skill]Dark Prison[/skill] before, but found it a bit too energy intensive with [skill]Lightning Reflexes[/skill]. My opener was [skill]Iron Palm[/skill] for the KD. By then, you'd have to replace [skill]Falling Spider[/skill] with [skill]Falling Lotus Strike[/skill] but you'd lose damage from [skill]Signet of Deadly Corruption[/skill]. Besides, there aren't many areas where a cover hex is needed because of lack of hex removal from mobs. Usually, its in the form of [skill]Expel Hexes[/skill] from mesmers. As for LR, I do like [skill]Critical Agility[/skill] since its for pve. The good thing is, an IAS isn't necessary because of the 2 signets at the end of the spike. CA is just icing.

The build in the guide uses the Trampling Ox chain, but this one provided is based on Deadly Arts, so you have a longer AP, or if you choose, a slightly longer Dark Prison. What makes this spike good IMO is the armor ignoring damage.

Unreal Havoc · May 14, 2008, 05:39 PM // 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by petrorabbit

I used [skill]Dark Prison[/skill] before, but found it a bit too energy intensive with [skill]Lightning Reflexes[/skill]. My opener was [skill]Iron Palm[/skill] for the KD. By then, you'd have to replace [skill]Falling Spider[/skill] with [skill]Falling Lotus Strike[/skill] but you'd lose damage from [skill]Signet of Deadly Corruption[/skill]. Besides, there aren't many areas where a cover hex is needed because of lack of hex removal from mobs. Usually, its in the form of Expel Hexes from mesmers. As for LR, I do like [skill]Critical Agility[/skill] since its for pve.

The build in the guild uses the Trample Ox Dagger chain, but this one is based on Deadly Arts, so you have a longer AP, or if you choose, a slightly longer Dark Prison with armor ignoring damage.

To be honest, looking at the build closer you could probably drop the IAS and just take a utility skill like Disrupting Dagger etc. You probably don't need the IAS for just two dagger skills anyway. I guess this is the love (and pain) of GW. So much that can be done with so many skills to throw on your bar!

petrorabbit · May 14, 2008, 05:42 PM // 17:42

Yeah, CA is just icing =)

But [skill]Disrupting Dagger[/skill] is also a good option.

Super Igor · May 14, 2008, 06:05 PM // 18:05

@Petro

Every KD is two seconds m8, if you take an IAS like [lightning reflexes] or [tiger stance] you can fit [falling spider] and [falling lotus] in one KD! meaning you have energy management for high energy skills and [signet of deadly corruption]!!!

I am so clever am not ai? xD

FlamingMetroid · May 14, 2008, 08:11 PM // 20:11

very nice guide

RavagerOfDreams · May 14, 2008, 09:10 PM // 21:10

k back and updated guide with bit about the different types of bows you can use (took both havocs and igors ideas) also added to AP section with the idea of dropping IAS for utility

edit- added bit about leadskips included your KD skill chain igor

Div · May 15, 2008, 09:52 AM // 09:52

For common builds, you might want to list the basic set of skills needed, and then have like 3 optional slots with recommended skills. That way people don't feel as constrained to take all 8 of those skills, and gives them a choice instead of randomly replacing a "vital" skill with a completely crap one. You can take a look at what I did in the monk guide, where I have "vital" skills, "choose one" skills, and "optional" skills.

It's always better to give basic templates with good skills and then optional slots as opposed to a highly specific template, since people don't like "wiki builds."

P.S. Stickied. Great job. Keep it up and maybe it'll help make the sin community less horribad :P

Super Igor · May 15, 2008, 01:04 PM // 13:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Keep it up and maybe it'll help make the sin community less horribad :P

hope so......eeeee.

RavagerOfDreams · May 15, 2008, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

For common builds, you might want to list the basic set of skills needed, and then have like 3 optional slots with recommended skills. That way people don't feel as constrained to take all 8 of those skills, and gives them a choice instead of randomly replacing a "vital" skill with a completely crap one. You can take a look at what I did in the monk guide, where I have "vital" skills, "choose one" skills, and "optional" skills.

It's always better to give basic templates with good skills and then optional slots as opposed to a highly specific template, since people don't like "wiki builds."

P.S. Stickied. Great job. Keep it up and maybe it'll help make the sin community less horribad :P

will do

thank you

petrorabbit · May 15, 2008, 02:27 PM // 14:27

In your Lead Skip section, where you talk about the double spider KD, i'd recommend taking out where you say it combos well with [Signet of Deadly Corruption]. Sure it combos with [Signet of Toxic Shock] but it only boosts 1 side to SoDC. With SoDC, you still want to combo it with multiple condition effects like [Twisting Fangs], or [Temple Strike].

Also you may want to add [Palm Strike] into you Lead Skip section. Although its a crappy elite, it is still a lead skip that shoud be covered.

You may want to include into Deadly Arts section, alternative leads like [Dancing Daggers], or [Iron Palm]. You may also want to cover skills that act as part of the dagger chain like [Mantis Touch], and Deadly Arts skills that require a lead or offhand like [Entangling Asp].

The other thing I recommend are Deadly Arts based combos, like the one I listed in my Deadly Arts AP build that utilizes SoDC.

Although Deadly Arts is more of a PvP line, it is still worth covering since some skills can be utilized effectively in PvE.

Bobby2 · May 15, 2008, 03:46 PM // 15:46

Deadly Arts section /signed

Despite anyone's opinion it's an integral part of playing a Sin, especially if you want some 1337 utility.

Quote:

Originally Posted by petrorabbit

Although Deadly Arts is more of a PvP line, it is still worth covering since some skills can be utilized effectively in PvE.

Until you get [skill]moebius strike[/skill], Deadly Arts rules PvE:
[skill]dancing daggers[/skill] (easily your greatest source of -decent- spammable damage early-game)
[skill]assassin's promise[/skill] (Teh Othar Pee Vee Ee Eliet)

Super Igor · May 15, 2008, 04:21 PM // 16:21

/signed for DA section

because.....

[)/\ |5 73|-| 1337.

Also might cover Assacast build in the build section, I know it is rarely used, but it is quite decent and might work prety much like the AP spike (less powerfull).

Super Igor · May 15, 2008, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Assassin's huge energy gain has a very good synergy with Ursan, might wright that down too. (sorry for double post.)