Curse

Arrogant Bastard · Mar 31, 2010, 07:16 PM // 19:16

ERWAY aka Physway
__________________________________________
[Intro]
__________________________________________
The team is built around two Ether Renewal Bond/Infusers. It's nothing new, but it's the opposite to Tank and Spank playing style, which I know many are fond of still. An essence of celerity is almost always used.

The initial team setup looks a little bit like this

1. E/Mo Primary Bond/Infuser
2. E/Mo Secondary ER

.Primary simply because it has Life Attunement and will use it on itself and the other ER.
.Secondary has more points in Healing, and brings Vigorous Spirit as an added, long lasting, quick recharging enchant to throw around.

3. A/W Quick-attack chain-SY. (or any other melee/physical character)
4. A/W Quick-attack chain-SY.
5. A/W Quick-attack chain-SY.
6. A/W Quick-attack chain-SY.

.The fun part of the team. Under overpowered bonds and damage buffs, the physicals c-space and destroy everything in their path. Quick attack chains are key. For a sin it would be either Jagged Strike-Fox Fangs-Death Blossom; for a Dervish, Mystic, Eremite's and Protector's...etc.

7. N/Mo OoP or OoV + SoH support.

.Maintains SoH on the physicals while spamming OoP or OoV whenever possible. Mark Of Pain nukers were used before, but we found through trial and error that people were too stupid to target the MoP's call often enough to warrant it's use.

8. Rt/x SoS spirit spammer.

.Just to take pressure off the ERs on occasion, the spirits can take aggro at appropriate times and are good at luring, too.

THINGS TO REMEMBER:
Playing as the ER can be challenging. Make sure you know either the area, or the foes you're up against. You need to make sure Ether Renewal is under a stack of enchants ALL the time.

Physicals; the only thing you need to pay attention to is overextending from the ERs. Because if you die, don't come running to us.

Ritualist; try and rush ahead as much as you can to place spirits in-front of everyone else.

__________________________________________
[Builds] by party slot
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1:
-ER Primary
2:
-ER Secondary
-UA/HB Monk
3-6: Primary damage dealers
-WotA Daggers
-100b
-WE Scythe
-Earthshaker
-Zealous Vow
-Crit Scythe
-Scythe Ranger
-Barrage
7-8: Support
-OotV + SoH
-Orders + SoH
-AP MoP
-SoS
-Monk Cleaner + SoH
-Mesmer Cleaner + SoH
-imbagon
-Defensive Communing
-Offensive Communing
-OoU MM
-Fevered Dreams
-Extend Conditions
-AP Nuker

__________________________________________
*because team is bonded, damage dealers can run Frenzy
*SY must be brought on most damage dealers. It is there in-case shit happens (multiple lines of defense reduce the chance of wipes/fails).
*1 damage dealer can be substituted for more support

*Typical team in 8-man areas:
2x ER, 2-3x Support, 3-4x Offense (3+ melee)

*Ideal team in 8-man areas:
2x ER, 1x Orders/SoH, SoS Rit or AP MoP, 4 melee (2+ Daggersins)

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Comparison of Orders Builds:
__________________________________________
There are two types of Orders builds to consider:

1) OoV provides an extra line of defense
a. This means it is superior to OoP for the average team since it decreases
the chance of failure

2) OoP provides a significant damage advantage, adrenaline fueling, and cover enchantments
a. This means it is superior to OoV for more experienced teams, or when using adrenaline based melees, or when in need of extra enchantment cover

__________________________________________
[When to use MoP?]
__________________________________________
Whether or not AP-MoP has a place in this team depends on 4 factors:
1. How good the MoP is at staying ahead of the melee and picking the right targets
2. How good the melee is at following targets
3. How effective the melee is at killing things in a small number of hits
4. How large the mobs are

There are a few areas where the mobs are so big, MoP is going to pay off no matter what (Urgoz, DoA, etc.). (Also, 4 Horsemen quest benefits greatly from the added speed for
those 2 crucial mobs if you're splitting 7/1). Outside of that, on the low end and the high end, teams won't benefit much from MoP. It pays off in the middle.

__________________________________________
[Areas]
__________________________________________
-UW
-FoW
-DoA
-Deep
-Urgoz
-Dungeons

Works in nearly all areas of game. Mallyx is probably the only are you can't use this build.

__________________________________________
[Also See]
__________________________________________
UW Physway
Dual ER Backline

__________________________________________
[Contributors]
__________________________________________
-Elnore Varda
-Higher Minion
-Xenos Mortis
-Chthon
-Carinae Dragonblood
-Diegu The Traveler
-Tsubasa Ex (Troll 1)
-Aina Galamarth (Troll 2)
-Ayumi Nonomura
-probably others
__________________________________________

Arrogant Bastard · Mar 31, 2010, 07:16 PM // 19:16

__________________________________________
[Strategy]
__________________________________________
General:
-Kill everything and don't die
-ER's: Avoid interrupts by being aware of whats around you and using PB to draw out interrupts if needed. Cover ER at all times and cover PB on allies in areas with a lot of strips.
-Damage Dealers: Do not overextend, say something if you lose bonds, and prioritize dangerous targets (e.g. ones with strips).
-Orders: Stay ahead of ER's and spam to draw focus (interrupts) away from them. Prioritize hex removal on ER's.
-Rit: Most of the time you want to stay ahead of everyone and draw initial aggro with spirits (especially important versus foes with interrupts/strips).

Area Specific:
Underworld:

-Starting
* Wait for any cons to be popped if someone is bringing them.
* The ERs will bond everyone in the group in alternating order.
* The Orders nec should maintain SoH on all the physicals and spam CF and maintain it as much as possible.
* Take the first quest and then let the assassins rip it up. Targets in order of priority:
1. Dying Nightmares
2. Skeletons of Dhuum
3. Bladed Aatxe
4. Grasping

-Escort
* After taking Restoring Grenth's Monuments, the Orders Necro should wait back while everyone else runs downstairs and clears the two Aatxes and Skeleton of Dhuum on the floor entrance to Vale.
* Once it's clear, tell the necro to take the Escort quest.
* Take out each mob out one at a time. A designated caller might make things safer and more coordinated.
* Run to Vale and remember to take out the Mindblade spawns below the stairs and before the bridge.
* ERs should walk back out of Mindblade range to minimize chance of getting interrupted while casting Ether Renewal.

-Unwanted Guests
The group will split to complete this quest:
* Two groups of two Assassins and ER Bonder.
* The Orders Necro takes quest.

Have one split standing on the stairs heading to Vale, where the Keeper spawns, and the rest in the narrow chamber where the next closest Reaper spawns. Take the quest then take out the Keeper instantly, followed by skeletons. Meet back at the side passage to the big room with the next Keeper. Rebond everyone, as you will have had to bond players from the other ER's side of the party, and lure the Vengefuls back and simply run past them. Repeat this process for the rest of the Keepers. The order is generally:

* Vale + Middle-chamber together.
* Far room.
* Passage to Wastes.
* Initial loading area with the ghosts.
* Then running from the direction of Wastes entrance, go along the bridge to get to the last Keeper.

-Vale
Generally done before UWG. Get the sins to stand on the Mindblade spawns and the ER's position on the stairs, maintaining GDW on the physicals before the Mindblades spawn. Repeat for the bridge. There are two Mindblade spawns on the way to Vale. Once the reaper is popped, take the quest and have 3 Assassins and one ER take the main groups and 1-2 sins with the other ER go to the top group. The Necro can idle in the middle, spamming Order of Pain. Remember to bond people when you split and then unbond them when you rejoin the main team. Once finished, zone to Lab.

-Mountains
After finishing UWG, you'll be at the entrance, and can begin running. If the Charged Blackness are present, kill them and ignore the Behmoths. Equipping a melee weapon, i.e. a spear, will prevent them from wanting to hit you too often. Run to Mountains whichever way you're comfortable with. Once you're there, keep running past the Behmoths until the Reaper. The Necro will have to drop SoH on to Assassins for this part. Do not kill all the Terrorwebs, leave at least one alive otherwise the reaper will blow up via traps. Clear the room first. Take the quest, wait at the corner, and kill the Slayer. Wait at the top and twiddle your thumbs as you wait for a horde of Terrorwebs to walk your way. Have one sin ball them up, and try and stay out of Nature's Renewal. Now run to Plains, again avoiding the Behmoths, killing skeletons and Charged.

-Plains
This area is dangerous for the ERs because of interruption. The ERs should avoid spamming Infuse Health to avoid attracting the Mindblades. Upon entering, run past the BDRs, you can kill the Lords but don't spawn more Mindblades. Kill only the BDR by the entrance to the Pits side of the Reaper and the mindblades it spawns. Lure the last BDR with a bow and then kill the Terrorwebs once it's safe.

-Four Horsemen
There is no split required in this team. Both ERs bond the Reaper with Prot Bond first then Life Attunement. The Reaper needs to be bonded with, in this order:

* Protective Bond from both ERs
* Life Attunement
* Strength of Honor

*green cirlce = secondary ER
*blue line = rest of team

The main team stands on the hill where the Pits side BDR was. Meanwhile, the secondary ER must stand in compass range of the Reaper, to spam his prots when the Horsemen arrive. Once you're all in position and know what's occurring, take the quest and wait for them to walk down. Quickly kill off the Horsemen and try to drop Meteor Shower to one side when being targeted. Once one side is finished, go back to find the Reaper tanking the other mob with the Secondary ER's help. Kill them and gg. Note that the Assassins should use BUH or Asuran Scan as fodder for Diversion. The Ritualist can place spirits just ahead of the reaper on Pools side to give the Pits side more time to clear without rushing.

-Pools
Run from the direction the Pools Horsemen came, killing the skeletons and Lords, but not the Dream Riders. Aggro and kill the loose BDR/Wail group before triggering the Mindblade popup on the path to Pools. This is one of the more common fail points due to rushing. The strips of the BDRs combined with the potent anti-physical/caster of the Mindblades is lethal. Once out of the grasp of the remaining stationary BDR, take out all the Terrorwebs you want. The quest is straight forward: kill the queen, and have someone wait at the Reaper to zone back to Plains.

-Pits
Mind the Chained Souls here, make sure bonds are kept up and make generous use of Protective Spirit. The quest requires two splits: one where the terrorweb spawn and one where the Souls spawn. The split teams are the same as UWG, with the Orders Necro taking the quest. If you wish, bond the souls, though it's not necessary.

-Wastes
Clear the quest area, and where the King spawns. Everyone should be spread out in the middle clearing, where the terrorwebs/Skeletons spawn. Orders Necro takes quest and everyone tanks.

-Dhuum
Cut his health down quickly then drop the bonds from two physicals and the necro for the meter to run down faster. Win. The End. gg. Collect drops from the chest and repeat as desired.

Cuilan · Mar 31, 2010, 08:20 PM // 20:20

You forgot Aina and any changes I made to the builds. Lightning Reflexes can be replaced as desired for a similar skill.

Arrogant Bastard · Mar 31, 2010, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

You forgot Aina and any changes I made to the builds. Lightning Reflexes can be replaced as desired for a similar skill.

Well as you can see, I credited myself for stealing the builds.

TalanRoarer · Mar 31, 2010, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Well most who have played in these teams will know that it fails in heavy enchant removal areas if meele don't do their jobs, heavy hexes can also be a problem but I know that you guys are big on 'cleaners' so thats usually not so bad.

Credit... what exactly for? Critiquing a bunch of generic builds and putting them together in a team? Gz.

Arrogant Bastard · Mar 31, 2010, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by TalanRoarer

Well most who have played in these teams will know that it fails in heavy enchant removal areas if meele don't do their jobs, heavy hexes can also be a problem but I know that you guys are big on 'cleaners' so thats usually not so bad.

Credit... what exactly for? Critiquing a bunch of generic builds and putting them together in a team? Gz.

For testing.

TalanRoarer · Mar 31, 2010, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arrogant Bastard

For testing.

Testing?

People have been playing with these builds for ages, how can that be considered testing?

I remember standing in some EV area about 18 months ago when Varda first showed me the ER build with JJ and Moloch.

Didn't take those three long to come up with a 'physway' teambuild based around an MoP.

Hatchet Child · Mar 31, 2010, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Well done for listing a bunch of builds people are already using in "your" idea of a Physical-way Team.

Been there, done that, got the titles and uninstalled the game. Enjoy your 15 minutes of fame.

Cuilan · Mar 31, 2010, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Diegu The Traveler's AP has Drain Delusions over AI.

Hex Eater Signet and Tryptophan Signet are possible on cleaner bars...

Perhaps he means test as in test in a team.

Arrogant Bastard · Mar 31, 2010, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatchet Child

Well done for listing a bunch of builds people are already using in "your" idea of a Physical-way Team.

Been there, done that, got the titles and uninstalled the game. Enjoy your 15 minutes of fame.

Sounds like a personal problem to me.

I posted builds to get more people to play with.

Don't know why you all think I'm taking credit for making original builds or anything. This is a team setup I've been using that I would like more people to become familiar with.

Hatchet Child · Mar 31, 2010, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Hardly 'Personal' All these builds just have BuH and SY on them nothing ingenious.

EDIT: Forgot to add AS to the list.

Fine. It's your setup. You don't need to Credit anyone.

Arrogant Bastard · Mar 31, 2010, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

Diegu The Traveler's AP has Drain Delusions over AI.

Hex Eater Signet and Tryptophan Signet are possible on cleaner bars...

Perhaps, but the builds are just general guidelines.

dr love · Apr 01, 2010, 12:01 AM // 00:01

whats the advantage of dagger sin over crit scythe sin? just the ability to bring SY?

also, has anyone been trying shadowform frontliners as a way to reduce damage, nasty spells and enchant strips?

makosi · Apr 01, 2010, 12:01 AM // 00:01

Aura of Holy might causes your scythe to deal holy damage (which is omitted in the description). It doesn't synergize well with MoP/Barbs or orders.

I'd also put Draw Conditions on the ER ele and add Seed of Life on the Strength of Honor/Signet of Removal monk.

Arrogant Bastard · Apr 01, 2010, 12:59 AM // 00:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr love

whats the advantage of dagger sin over crit scythe sin? just the ability to bring SY?

also, has anyone been trying shadowform frontliners as a way to reduce damage, nasty spells and enchant strips?

Besides SY, the daggersin can trigger buffs faster (e.g. knocklock with GDW).

SF seems redundant if you have everyone bonded. Strips can be dealt with covers and if someone does lose PB, slap on PS/SB and reapply PB asap.

Zodiac Meteor · Apr 01, 2010, 01:14 AM // 01:14

Nice Minion, keep adding to it

Um, the Dervish is missing frenzy and the ranger can bring that Dwarf skill that extends stances.

Also the ritualists are missing Earthbind, got to have that, +1 second does a hell of a lot.

Strategy, explain the roles of physicals, support and healers extremely well. Like foes with enchant stripping dies first etc.

Forgot Triple Axe Warrior, Axe AoE spam is win.

Earth Shaker build sucks, needs more Renewing Smash.

Xenomortis · Apr 01, 2010, 01:22 AM // 01:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

Aura of Holy might causes your scythe to deal holy damage (which is omitted in the description). It doesn't synergize well with MoP/Barbs or orders.

I'd also put Draw Conditions on the ER ele and add Seed of Life on the Strength of Honor/Signet of Removal monk.

If you have an AP-MoP caller don't bring AoHM. If you have OoP or OotV it's your call.

If your midline has an orders nec then he can take Foul Feast and hex removal. Alternatively you can bring a SoH monk that can maintain 6 copies of SoH and have signets for the rest of his bar (heroes work well for this too).

If you're entering an area with meaningful pressure outputs and a plethora of hexes or conditions that hurt, then I would be tempted to take 1 ER and 1 Monk with a focus on heals and lighter prots (maybe even Restore Condition). Then again, I'd be tempted to do this anyway. The advantage to two ERs is that Prot Bond is much safer to run than it is with 1 ER and that near allows you to play on the level of Chimpanzee.

The posted necro bars certainly aren't my bars or bars I would run (save the AP-MoP bar):

Order of the Vampire with SoH
You don't need Angorodon's Gaze to keep up 4 copies of SoH if your team kills fast enough. Use Well of Blood economically (if at all) and Foul Feast is all you need to remove threatening conditions generally, same for hexes and Remove Hex, but you need to be attentive if there are threatening hexes and there's not much hex removal on your team. If you really want extra adreanline, slot in Mark of Fury over Well of Blood. If you want more hex removal, take Smite Hex over WoB.
If you want a little bit more energy then push Soul Reaping up to 9 (or buy a rune).

Order of Pain + SoH
Same again really, fill in the blanks with skills to counter the relevant area (Foul Feast, hex removal etc). You certainly do not need Angorodon's Gaze with Cultist's Fervor - with 16 in Blood most of your blood skills are free and 10e ones cost a mere 4.
If you don't need Dark Fury (no Warriors) then slot in something else. Don't immediately swap to OoV though, this bar is easier on energy and Order of Pain's damage is increased by BuH and Asuran Scan.

The Order of Undeath bar isn't what I run when I play with this setup, but there's nothing wrong with it except that it doesn't have enough energy.

If you do run with 2 ERs, the bars shouldn't be the same. One of them should have a copy of Prot Spirit to cover if PB falls on anyone and only one needs Life Attunement (he can maintain it on both). Vigorous Spirit is nice to help relieve pressure a little bit, but it's not much; it does add up with Blood Bond and OotV however.

A few notes though:
You should tweak whatever general build you have to suit the area you're entering. That's just common sense. Indeed, it's through this tweaking that my friends and I have developed the builds and methods we use and it's pretty much how players develop builds. It's no surprise that these builds use elements (or are even just complete copies) of builds that people have used for a long time because they're what work. I and I suspect anyone else on the list of 'credits' make little to no claim on any of the builds and they aren't anything new.

I really don't know why this thread was created, it didn't need to be.

Chthon · Apr 01, 2010, 02:11 AM // 02:11

1. I approve.

2. Looks like you stole all of [RARE]'s builds.

3. Some specific comments o nthe overall team build:

Whether or not AP-MoP has a place in this team depends on 4 factors:
1. How good the MoP is at staying ahead of the melee and picking the right targets,
2. How good the melee is at following targets,
3. How effective the melee is at killing things in a small number of hits,
4. How large the mobs are.
There are a few areas where the mobs are so big, MoP is going to pay off no matter what (Urgoz, DoA, etc.). (Also, 4 Horsemen quest benefits greatly from the added speed for those 2 crucial mobs if you're splitting 7/1). Outside of that, on the low end and the high end, teams won't benefit much from MoP. It pays off in the middle.
For corpse-rich areas, a OoU MM is probably a superior choice to SoS. The damage output and tanking potential is much higher.
In general, there's enough flexibility that you could run 2ER+3melee+3caster and it could work fine. Perhaps better if the 3rd caster does something particularly useful for the zone.

4. Specific comments on specific builds:

I like Racthoh's Imbagon, with swift java changed to FtW, much better. Why the changes here?
SoS probably does not need AoU unless it's for UW and tanking 1 side of 4 Horsemen.
Not sure about e-management on Soul Twister. I'm leaning towards SoC + AoS, but I need to play around with it more before making up my mind.
Why is offensive communer not using Ghostly Might?
All variants on Orders+SoH builds should probably all be using Mark of Fury and Blood Bond after that last round of buffs.
I question the PvE skill selection on the AP-MoP. None of those skills are bad choices, but BuH and especially MindBender would not be my first choices.
OoU MM is going to have energy problems. Drop the paragon stuff for SoLS + AoS. (There's also a case to be made for SoLS + a cheap melee minion, search necro forum if you really care.)
FD build is going to have energy problems. GoLE doesn't work on all those shouts. Consider Ruby Djinn over YAAW since their burning flips over FD and Frag quite a bit.
EC build might have energy issues, not sure.
All scythe builds. Do not use AoHM with MoP and/or Orders. Damage conversion, doesn't work, anti-synergy, yadda yadda. Use EBSoHonor instead.
ES build could benefit from Renewing Smash (+ Auspicious Blow to pay for it). Also, note that ES tends to suffer in teams with GDW all over, since you don't get the benefit of your stonefist insignia if GDW causes the KD, and you can't KD a already-KD'ed foe.
In a similar vein, axe is almost useful in a GDW-heavy team. Something like: WE, WW, Cyclone, PowerAttack, Dismember, Scan, Frenzy, SY!
I'm still not a big fan of the WotA thing, but I understand the concept behind it. As opposed to the same build with Moebius Strike and Critical Agility...
...you lose some IAS, which is counteracted by Essence of Celerity if you use one (otherwise I wouldn't even consider WotA);
...you lose some armor, but you're under PBond anyway;
...you lose MS, but you should be so buffed that things don't live long enough to MS to make a difference (JS+FF+DB+MS only pulls ahead of JS+FF+DB if your targets survive long enough to hit them with a second DB).
...you gain some e-management, which in turn makes vampiric daggers more feasible;
...you gain IAS that's harder to strip;
...you gain a significant, if short-lived boost from BuH (which multiplies with your stacked buffs).
Like I said, I'm not super fond of this build, and I'd never use it for general purpose PvE, but I understand it, and I think it works well in this specific team.
I don't care for the Barrage build. LR is bad IAS, especially without DStability. Triple Shot is highly over-rated. TBH, I don't have a Barrage build I'm totally happy with. Recently I've been using a pet (!) in most of my ranger builds to take advantage of Scavenger Strike (which could pay for Frenzy while making another target for GDW).

Arrogant Bastard · Apr 01, 2010, 02:16 AM // 02:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

1. I approve.

2. Looks like you stole all of [RARE]'s builds.

3. Some specific comments o nthe overall team build:

Whether or not AP-MoP has a place in this team depends on 4 factors:
1. How good the MoP is at staying ahead of the melee and picking the right targets,
2. How good the melee is at following targets,
3. How effective the melee is at killing things in a small number of hits,
4. How large the mobs are.
There are a few areas where the mobs are so big, MoP is going to pay off no matter what (Urgoz, DoA, etc.). (Also, 4 Horsemen quest benefits greatly from the added speed for those 2 crucial mobs if you're splitting 7/1). Outside of that, on the low end and the high end, teams won't benefit much from MoP. It pays off in the middle.
For corpse-rich areas, a OoU MM is probably a superior choice to SoS. The damage output and tanking potential is much higher.
In general, there's enough flexibility that you could run 2ER+3melee+3caster and it could work fine. Perhaps better if the 3rd caster does something particularly useful for the zone.

4. Specific comments on specific builds:

I like Racthoh's Imbagon, with swift java changed to FtW, much better. Why the changes here?
SoS probably does not need AoU unless it's for UW and tanking 1 side of 4 Horsemen.
Not sure about e-management on Soul Twister. I'm leaning towards SoC + AoS, but I need to play around with it more before making up my mind.
Why is offensive communer not using Ghostly Might?
All variants on Orders+SoH builds should probably all be using Mark of Fury and Blood Bond after that last round of buffs.
I question the PvE skill selection on the AP-MoP. None of those skills are bad choices, but BuH and especially MindBender would not be my first choices.
OoU MM is going to have energy problems. Drop the paragon stuff for SoLS + AoS. (There's also a case to be made for SoLS + a cheap melee minion, search necro forum if you really care.)
FD build is going to have energy problems. GoLE doesn't work on all those shouts. Consider Ruby Djinn over YAAW since their burning flips over FD and Frag quite a bit.
EC build might have energy issues, not sure.
All scythe builds. Do not use AoHM with MoP and/or Orders. Damage conversion, doesn't work, anti-synergy, yadda yadda. Use EBSoHonor instead.
ES build could benefit from Renewing Smash (+ Auspicious Blow to pay for it). Also, note that ES tends to suffer in teams with GDW all over, since you don't get the benefit of your stonefist insignia if GDW causes the KD, and you can't KD a already-KD'ed foe.
In a similar vein, axe is almost useful in a GDW-heavy team. Something like: WE, WW, Cyclone, PowerAttack, Dismember, Scan, Frenzy, SY!
I'm still not a big fan of the WotA thing, but I understand the concept behind it. As opposed to the same build with Moebius Strike and Critical Agility...
...you lose some IAS, which is counteracted by Essence of Celerity if you use one (otherwise I wouldn't even consider WotA);
...you lose some armor, but you're under PBond anyway;
...you lose MS, but you should be so buffed that things don't live long enough to MS to make a difference (JS+FF+DB+MS only pulls ahead of JS+FF+DB if your targets survive long enough to hit them with a second DB).
...you gain some e-management, which in turn makes vampiric daggers more feasible;
...you gain IAS that's harder to strip;
...you gain a significant, if short-lived boost from BuH (which multiplies with your stacked buffs).
Like I said, I'm not super fond of this build, and I'd never use it for general purpose PvE, but I understand it, and I think it works well in this specific team.
I don't care for the Barrage build. LR is bad IAS, especially without DStability. Triple Shot is highly over-rated. TBH, I don't have a Barrage build I'm totally happy with. Recently I've been using a pet (!) in most of my ranger builds to take advantage of Scavenger Strike (which could pay for Frenzy while making another target for GDW).

I'm going to add your MoP thing to help teams decide on what to use.

As far as builds, none of them are really perfect because you need to adjust for the area. I will make some of the important changes eventually.

HigherMinion · Apr 01, 2010, 02:39 AM // 02:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

1. I approve.

2. Looks like you stole all of [RARE]'s builds.

Whether or not AP-MoP has a place in this team depends on 4 factors:
1. How good the MoP is at staying ahead of the melee and picking the right targets,
2. How good the melee is at following targets,
3. How effective the melee is at killing things in a small number of hits,
4. How large the mobs are.
There are a few areas where the mobs are so big, MoP is going to pay off no matter what (Urgoz, DoA, etc.). (Also, 4 Horsemen quest benefits greatly from the added speed for those 2 crucial mobs if you're splitting 7/1). Outside of that, on the low end and the high end, teams won't benefit much from MoP. It pays off in the middle.
I question the PvE skill selection on the AP-MoP. None of those skills are bad choices, but BuH and especially MindBender would not be my first choices.

You contradict yourself a little here, Cho. You say the MoP pays off more if it can get ahead and cast before the physicals arrive at called target, which wastes less physical-running-to-target time. Mindbender does this, aswell as speeding up casting, which is very much necessary in a team that already kills as fast at the 4x sin combo.

As for BuH... There is nothing more satisfying than bigger numbers. Simply nothing better to put there. Don't need PI, GDW, EBsoH or anything else. Therefore- BuH!