Curse

byteme! · Nov 18, 2011, 03:56 AM // 03:56

Having a low s/b gives you more exposure. The more people bid on your crap the more free bumps you get. The more bumps you get the better the chance of getting the right person at the right time.

Not everyone goes through Ventari's 24/7, 365 days. Getting the right buyer could often take weeks because that's how often certain individuals bother to go through this forum. If I'm not desperate for storage space I see no reason why it's unethical for me to take my time selling whatever I have.

Dark Morelia · Nov 18, 2011, 04:26 AM // 04:26

I don't think it's unethical at all to want a premium price for your items, nor to be prepared to wait for that price.
But I do think it's unethical and a waste of everyone's time to list a ridiculously low starting bid that's nowhere near what you're willing to sell for.
Really, it's just abusing a loophole to circumvent ventari's corner rules on early bumping.

The way I see it, you want to sell your item for X amount, and let it take as long as it wants? fine. But don't list a ridiculously low starting bid for Y amount when you're not even going to contemplate selling it for less than X.

If someone is after something you're selling, they'll probably use the search function. To that end, actually write the item name in plain text instead of using images, and for %&*^'s sake spell the item name correctly so they can find it.

Here on Guru, I will only purchase items which have a buyout price listed. I refuse to keep posting bids on someone's item while they fart around deciding if it's high enough to sell yet, or in some cases, if they even wanna sell at all.
This sort of crap is why I migrated fully to GWA as soon as I found it. Starting bid IS the reserve, set amount of time until auction end, if you're the highest bidder, you know you'll get the item at that price. Perfect.

Swingline · Nov 18, 2011, 04:39 AM // 04:39

It takes about 10 minutes to go through the first 4-5 pages of the sell forum and whenever I sell something it never goes past page 3 or 4 if I am using my free daily bump. Besides there is a search function just as the poster above stated so the exposure excuse is irrelevant.

Showtime · Nov 18, 2011, 05:33 AM // 05:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Morelia

I don't think it's unethical at all to want a premium price for your items, nor to be prepared to wait for that price.
But I do think it's unethical and a waste of everyone's time to list a ridiculously low starting bid that's nowhere near what you're willing to sell for.
Really, it's just abusing a loophole to circumvent ventari's corner rules on early bumping.

Low starting points for auctions have been the norm... forever.

Low ballers are the norm everywhere.

Time is relative... so at what point are we wasting it? Buyer sees something worth 100k. His choice to start at 1 gold all the way up to 100k+ on the 1st bid. People bid and then cancel their bids all the time. So who's wasting who's time?

I welcome all lowball bidders. Feel free to keep bidding cuz you never know.

Ty and have a nice day.

byteme! · Nov 22, 2011, 03:02 AM // 03:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Showtime

Low starting points for auctions have been the norm... forever.

Low ballers are the norm everywhere.[/b]

Exactly. It's been this way since the internet began. Just because 1 person (Dark Morelia) doesn't like it, doesn't mean anything is ever going to change at all.

@Dark Morelia - Why stop here? There are tens of thousands of forums that act the same way. Maybe you should go on a 1 man crusade on this problem and see how far you get. Talk about "wasting time" huh?

I am going to continue to post low s/b on every forum I visit on the internet because that's how I like it. I'm not going to assume people use search all the time. I'm not going to assume my target audience will get exposure to my threads. Try and change my way of thinking. I dare you.

PS. I swear we live in a world with way too many bleeding hearts. If something as trivial as this bothers you I'd hate to spend a day in your shoes.

jimbo32 · Nov 22, 2011, 04:47 AM // 04:47

But here's the thing, byteme - the sales in the Guru Sell forum are not auctions, so you can't exactly compare them to eBay or whatever. Sure, some of them might be run sort of like an auction, but when the seller has no obligation to the high bidder, then they can't be considered true auctions, right?

There's nothing wrong with a low s/b if the seller also lists the b/o upfront, but most of the time that doesn't happen. As I said earlier, there are lots of high-end sales that are basically just elaborate price-checks where the seller may not intend to sell at all. Or they may have hidden r/b's that are so ludicrously high that they may never be met. And as Dark Morelia said, in that case the low s/b's just serve as a way to circumvent the Ventari's bump rules.

Obviously, this applies mostly to high-end stuff. I don't see anything wrong with a low-end thread having (for instance) all 1k s/b's. Lots of players don't want to be bothered PC'ing every single item they're selling, and that's perfectly fine. Given the choice though, when I'm looking for something specific, I'll always buy from someone with listed b/o's for low-end stuff just because I'd rather not wait while the seller considers offers.

Mouse at Large · Nov 22, 2011, 08:36 AM // 08:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbo32

<snip>

As I said earlier, there are lots of high-end sales that are basically just elaborate price-checks where the seller may not intend to sell at all. Or they may have hidden r/b's that are so ludicrously high that they may never be met.

<snip>

This is the crux of the issue. The only reasons for this situation to exist is (as far as I can see)....

1) There is a mismatch between buyers and sellers - either in price expectations or simply that the seller and buyer never hook up. That being said, without someone being willing to bid a what the seller considers a reasonable amout of pixels, any items immediately realisable value is the merchant value

2) Epeen - i.e. "look at my pixels - got a bid of 150 pink pixels and turned it down" or variations thereof. This does not apply to serious collectors who buy for the satisfaction of building up their collections rather than epeen.

Just my opinions

Rushin Roulette · Nov 22, 2011, 12:49 PM // 12:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by byteme!

@Dark Morelia - Why stop here? There are tens of thousands of forums that act the same way. Maybe you should go on a 1 man crusade on this problem and see how far you get. Talk about "wasting time" huh?

Actually there arent. Most forums I see (Wartower for example) have an extra rule... You set the time a sales thread stays open when you create the thread, list your S/B, how big each bid step is and what the B/O is if there is one. Once the thread is automatically locked by the system, then the highest bidder wins the item no matter what.

If a seller is stupid enough to put a Mini Island Guardian up for a S/B of 1K and only one person bids... then either that one bidder is a happy owner of an Island Guardian mini for 1K or the seller gets an infraction warning and a ban if it has happened too many times.

Im not saying that this is the best method of running a forum sales section... but its a hell of a lot better than how some users here seem to want to maybe, eventually, probably, on an off chance that hell freezes over, sell some high end items.

If you want to sell something... please at least list your R/B (maybe after the 30th bump without bids?

) if no one bids higher than the lowball offer you are complaining about. Stop misusing the sales forum for hidden price checks or showing off your E-Peens with glossy pictures. Stop hogging the, how you call it, "Free bumps" to move other threads, in which users really want to sell stuff, away from the first page.

Swingline · Nov 22, 2011, 05:25 PM // 17:25

I really like the rules Wartower has and I think there should be steps taken to try and make the guru sell thread the best possible auction system for Guild Wars. Giving sellers the freedom to do w/e they want is what got us here in the first place.

I also want to add another problem I think only a small number of people see and that is the market manipulation of high end items. People are rich enough and markets on certain items are small enough to become the target of manipulation. I see the same small circle of people bidding on things I know they have multiples of only to have a sell thread with those items for bloated prices. Powertrading is one thing but this is just douche baggery on a whole new level.

P.S. Never underestimate the ambitions of a nerd, no matter how ridiculous they may be.

LicensedLuny · Nov 22, 2011, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

I really like the rules Wartower has and I think there should be steps taken to try and make the guru sell thread the best possible auction system for Guild Wars. Giving sellers the freedom to do w/e they want is what got us here in the first place.

"Here," as in one of the most, if not the most, well-known and highest traffic English-language fansites where gear trading is allowed in a game without any built-in gear trading system?

Ventari's has always been flexible. If they add in new restrictions on how people may and may not list their items for sale, then they will change the dynamic of the community. Undoubtedly given the implied change, they will alienate a fair portion of the community.

I get that you (and some others commenting here) would prefer that some rules be enacted to stop how some other players want to trade. I'm wondering if you realize that will most likely reduce the traffic every thread here might see.

It's already happening with argos. I meet more players who "just check argos" than I do who use anything like Guru. The limitations of that system make Ventari's seem streamlined!

Quote:

I also want to add another problem I think only a small number of people see and that is the market manipulation of high end items. People are rich enough and markets on certain items are small enough to become the target of manipulation. I see the same small circle of people bidding on things I know they have multiples of only to have a sell thread with those items for bloated prices. Powertrading is one thing but this is just douche baggery on a whole new level.

P.S. Never underestimate the ambitions of a nerd, no matter how ridiculous they may be.

That may very well be going on, but I don't really see how it's more than tangential to this thread's topic.

Honestly, the tone of your comments comes off like, "Ventari's should be just the way I want it. Everyone should play by my rules or leave!" If you get your wish, lots of people will leave. Maybe they'll go somewhere else and some other site will become the most-well-known fansite trading venue.

Would you seriously choose a lower chance that players will see your trade threads just to get rid of these never-ending "offer" threads that seem to vex you so?

------------------------------

I still like the flexibility that Ventari's gives us. As an OP, it's up to me how I want to trade pixels. It's up to viewers to decide if I seem like someone they want to trade with. Many GW players will/can not register for fansites for various reasons (not the least of which is security concerns.) Setting a system up where all listings are binding and must sell to the highest offer from a registered user removes the option for us to accept offers via PM or whisper; it removes the option for us to change our mind if we honestly don't think any active bidder is willing to pay the price we're looking for.

There are lots of options for players to trade where listings and bids are binding already. None of them seem to have nearly as much traffic as Ventari's.

My ideal would be for Guru/Curse to get more functional auction software like what Maarten built for GWA. But I think there will always be a demand for a venue to advertise items for sale in a "seller's choice" format like Ventari's threads, regardless of how great any auction system is, even if it's implemented in game.

And I still strongly disagree with implementing any new rule for something we can do ourselves - if you don't like the hidden reserve threads, don't read or post in them; it is just that simple. Given the relatively low traffic in Ventari's these days, I honestly doubt those open-format threads are seriously reducing the traffic other threads get.

Swingline · Nov 23, 2011, 12:31 PM // 12:31

Quote: