Curse

TheGizzy · Jan 29, 2011, 07:29 PM // 19:29

New addition for daggers.

Dropped in Jaya Bluffs while I was feather farming.

superraptors · Jan 29, 2011, 07:44 PM // 19:44

req8 max dmg holy branch only purple in HM pongmei, not sure if it counts but im definitelysure q8s do drop still

Yawgmoth · Jan 29, 2011, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by superraptors

req8 max dmg holy branch only purple in HM pongmei, not sure if it counts but im definitelysure q8s do drop still

Max dmg for staves is 11-22. We're currently looking for a 11-22 req.8 no matter how low the HSR and Energy will be. It is quite likely that we won't find one though.

superraptors · Jan 29, 2011, 08:17 PM // 20:17

oright always thought it was 21 lol

Showtime · Jan 30, 2011, 10:44 PM // 22:44

I've been wondering if the r0 spear does 8-12 and is inscribable, shouldn't it be worth the same if not more (depending on skin) as the candy cane spear? Same damage/modable basically.

LicensedLuny · Jan 30, 2011, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Showtime

I've been wondering if the r0 spear does 8-12 and is inscribable, shouldn't it be worth the same if not more (depending on skin) as the candy cane spear? Same damage/modable basically.

I think perhaps you mean wintergreen spear? Candycane spears have no inscription slot and are available to craft every Wintersday.

Like a lot of things though, market price does not necessarily track with rarity. I suspect one does have to look a lot longer to find a "max" no req. spear instead of a Wintergreen Spear. But I'd be very surprised if there is anywhere near enough market demand to match the price.

Also, don't forget, neither the r0 loot spears nor the wintergreen spears actually deal their rated damage on non-critical hits until you have 12 in spear mastery. All martial weapons are like that. It's quite easy to see if you have a spare wintergreen or candy cane martial weapon around (if not, use a Club of a Thousand Bears or a Banana Scythe.) Take said weapon out into isle of nameless with 0 in the weapon mastery attribute but enough free points to level it up. Start attacking a 60 Armor target. You don't get the rated damage on non-critical hits. Slowly raise your weapon mastery level, and watch the damage rise. You won't see the listed damage of the r0 weapon occur for non-critical hits until you have 12 in the mastery attribute ... even though you're using a no-req weapon. Note, this doesn't apply to spellcasting weapons, which deal their rated damage as long as you meet the requirement.

And yeah, I know the OP needs updating. Sorry for slacking off, but thank you all for the continued reports!

tommaso · Jan 31, 2011, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Guess this might interested you. Q8 spear insc is listed as 14-26. Well, i got a non-insc q8 14-26. It is cyan and doesnt have any inherent, but who knows. Dropped in Heart of the Shiverpeaks NM.

Yawgmoth · Jan 31, 2011, 03:38 PM // 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommaso

Guess this might interested you. Q8 spear insc is listed as 14-26. Well, i got a non-insc q8 14-26. It is cyan and doesnt have any inherent, but who knows. Dropped in Heart of the Shiverpeaks NM.

It's irrelevant because there's no relation between the req+base_stats of any weapon randomly dropped and whether it has: an inscription / an inscription slot / an inherent mod / nothing at all.

Bright Star Shine · Jan 31, 2011, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommaso

Guess this might interested you. Q8 spear insc is listed as 14-26. Well, i got a non-insc q8 14-26. It is cyan and doesnt have any inherent, but who knows. Dropped in Heart of the Shiverpeaks NM.

Also, spears and scythes all drop from inscribable sources (f*ck Mortal Vessel

) and as such don't need the separation "uninscr" "inscr".

LicensedLuny · Jan 31, 2011, 11:27 PM // 23:27

Yawg has said repeatedly that there's no difference in the current drop tables regarding max damage for min req between stuff from inherent areas (Proph, Factions, FoW/UW/Urgoz/Deep except for end-chests) and inscribable areas (Nighfall, EotN.)

I have no reason to doubt him, none at all! I simply kept the insc/inhe split in the first draft of the list I wrote up since ...
a) I'd already written it up that way, and
b) We have this "theory" that there's no difference with a lot of evidence to support it. Why not leave it there and eventually get evidence to support it for every item in every req.?

As for tommaso's spear, thanks for the picture! Since it dropped from Heart of the Shiverpeaks, an area known to produce inscribable gear rather than inherent gear, we still count that as "inscribable source area" for the purposes of this thread. If you look at the pictures folks have posted, I suspect there are other examples of "inscribable" records which happened to drop without an inscription slot, too.

tommaso · Feb 01, 2011, 12:21 AM // 00:21

Yeah i got that after the coments and understood the concept. Well, today i got this, already listed as max (seen a white pic of it). Only posting to illustrate with a gold item. Dropped in Bogroot NM.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LicensedLuny

Yawg has said repeatedly that there's no difference in the current drop tables regarding max damage for min req between stuff from inherent areas (Proph, Factions, FoW/UW/Urgoz/Deep except for end-chests) and inscribable areas (Nighfall, EotN.)

I have no reason to doubt him, none at all! I simply kept the insc/inhe split in the first draft of the list I wrote up since ...
a) I'd already written it up that way, and
b) We have this "theory" that there's no difference with a lot of evidence to support it. Why not leave it there and eventually get evidence to support it for every item in every req.?

As for tommaso's spear, thanks for the picture! Since it dropped from Heart of the Shiverpeaks, an area known to produce inscribable gear rather than inherent gear, we still count that as "inscribable source area" for the purposes of this thread. If you look at the pictures folks have posted, I suspect there are other examples of "inscribable" records which happened to drop without an inscription slot, too.

Bright Star Shine · Feb 01, 2011, 01:35 AM // 01:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by LicensedLuny

Yawg has said repeatedly that there's no difference in the current drop tables regarding max damage for min req between stuff from inherent areas (Proph, Factions, FoW/UW/Urgoz/Deep except for end-chests) and inscribable areas (Nighfall, EotN.)

I have no reason to doubt him, none at all! I simply kept the insc/inhe split in the first draft of the list I wrote up since ...
a) I'd already written it up that way, and
b) We have this "theory" that there's no difference with a lot of evidence to support it. Why not leave it there and eventually get evidence to support it for every item in every req.?

As for tommaso's spear, thanks for the picture! Since it dropped from Heart of the Shiverpeaks, an area known to produce inscribable gear rather than inherent gear, we still count that as "inscribable source area" for the purposes of this thread. If you look at the pictures folks have posted, I suspect there are other examples of "inscribable" records which happened to drop without an inscription slot, too.

Well yeah, there SHOULDN'T be any difference, but look, it took you until a week or so ago to prove that q8 max inherent swords still drop, while I see q8 inscr swords drop quite a bit more.. So, it isn't all that obvious imo.. Although Yawg always seems to make sense and I wouldn't never dare to talk badly about him^^

LicensedLuny · Feb 01, 2011, 10:25 AM // 10:25

List updated up to and including post 312, page 16, Jan. 14, 2011.
List updated up to and including post 332, page 17, Feb. 1, 2011.

Req. 4 Axe:
- Inscribable Sources: 5-14 (pic from Intrinsic)
- Inscribable Sources: 6-16 (pic from eviltjuh)
Req. 2 Daggers:
- Inherent Sources:
- Inherent Sources: 5-9 (pic from TheGizzy)
Req. 2 Shield:
- Inherent Sources: 10 ar (claim by Yawgmoth)
- Inherent Sources: 10 ar (pic from Elena Dragonfire)
Req. 8 Staff:
- Inherent Sources: 19/10/11-21 (pic from Pleikki)
- Inherent Sources: 20/10/11-21 (pic from Pleikki)
- Pre NF: 20/10/11-22 (pic from system.fan)
  The update in Oct. 2006 which changed max staffs to have white 20 HSR all spells in the base occurred a few days before NF's release, which seems to be when the minimum req. allowed for max stat gear was changed. So for a few days, the game could and did produce max r8 "postnerf" staffs (with 20HSR all spells) like the one shown.
  
  I added that note above because a couple people have asked me about how could those max r8 "postnerf" staffs exist if everything changed at NF's release. I hope it helps explain. Please let me know if I have that wrong.

Yawgmoth · Feb 01, 2011, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by myself

there's no relation between the req+base_stats of any weapon randomly dropped and whether it has: an inscription / an inscription slot / an inherent mod / nothing at all.

I have "repeated" it there again because there were often lots of misconceptions about it, and supposed this time it's about another factor than whether it dropped in inscribable area or not - it was about whether it had an insc slot or was practically white.

I'm sure there's no difference whether an item is a completely clean white (or any color) or a blue/purple/gold with a mod, or with an inscription slot, or with an inscription, or with an inherent mod. The base stats and req are unrelated to those.

But there have always been misunderstandings and misconceptions about it. EVEN an official Anet representative back in 2005 has answered to a player's question: "Why there are purple/gold weapons with no mods at all? How are they different than whites?" (not an exact quote)
The answer was like: those weapons are of rare quality because they have either higher dmg than normal drops in that area (true, but same applies to purples/golds with mods) and/or they have lower requirements for their stats (this has always been completely false).

Anet has a long history of not knowing how the drops in their game exactly work

And as for the max r8 updated staves, I gave a detailed explanation in this post: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...3&postcount=12
(it was just ~26 hours between 2 separate updates when they were possible and not even rare drops)

Aesir The Warrior · Feb 01, 2011, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by LicensedLuny

Neither the r0 loot spears nor the wintergreen spears actually deal their rated damage on non-critical hits until you have 12 in spear mastery. All martial weapons are like that. It's quite easy to see if you have a spare wintergreen or candy cane martial weapon around (if not, use a Club of a Thousand Bears or a Banana Scythe.) Take said weapon out into isle of nameless with 0 in the weapon mastery attribute but enough free points to level it up. Start attacking a 60 Armor target. You don't get the rated damage on non-critical hits. Slowly raise your weapon mastery level, and watch the damage rise. You won't see the listed damage of the r0 weapon occur for non-critical hits until you have 12 in the mastery attribute ... even though you're using a no-req weapon. Note, this doesn't apply to spellcasting weapons, which deal their rated damage as long as you meet the requirement.

I think you are getting the mechanics wrong here... they aren't dealing their rated damage because of the armor damage reduction.... and when you add attribute points, you are essentially offsetting said reduction by increasing the damage... the only way to test for sure would be against an armor 0 character...

The spellcasting weapons... now that's an interesting note... maybe the armors in the Isle of the Nameless are physical only, and all elemental damage goes through... who knows

Monster · Feb 04, 2011, 10:39 PM // 22:39

I got this in Istan yesterday. Most likely during the 'Douse Your Enthusiasm' quest.

Not sure if it is of any interest but, meh

Aesir The Warrior · Feb 05, 2011, 02:55 AM // 02:55

Found on Mehtani Keys, nm of course

Yawgmoth · Feb 05, 2011, 04:06 AM // 04:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aesir The Warrior

I think you are getting the mechanics wrong here... they aren't dealing their rated damage because of the armor damage reduction.... and when you add attribute points, you are essentially offsetting said reduction by increasing the damage... the only way to test for sure would be against an armor 0 character...

The spellcasting weapons... now that's an interesting note... maybe the armors in the Isle of the Nameless are physical only, and all elemental damage goes through... who knows

You're right with the first part, target's armor does reduce the gains from attribute levels, but the baseline armor in this game is 60 (used for balancing everything for level 20 combat). While you can pick any lower armor level, like 30 (and use attribute rank 6 to deal listed damage), or armor 0 target (and use 0 attribute) it's just not practical to test things like that.

The 60 armor dummy is enough for testing almost everything. It's just 60 armor. Not any odd variation of only vs physical or vs martial weapons.

And spellcasting weapons work differently, their damage works like damage from skills - their "strike level" is based on the character's level and is normalized for level 20 characters damaging a 60 armor target (to deal full listed dmg).

tommaso · Feb 05, 2011, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Hammer q1: found today a req 1 hammer higher than the listed. Dropped in Fort Ranik Mission, NM, from an ascalonian chest. 11-16 dmg. There goes the picture. Send PM if you need more info.

tommaso · Feb 06, 2011, 02:22 AM // 02:22

well now its time for a req 3 scythe, 9-24 (listed 9-22)