Curse

The Herbalizer · Nov 30, 2005, 07:08 PM // 19:08

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Originally Posted by eol
*sigh* i am telling you first hand what is happening and im not apparently the first nor will i be the last, and excuse me if not everyone screen shots every claim accusation and denial in game

Screenshot the supposed scammer/runner/whatever you want to call it, or don't make accusations. Were it any other thread we'd delete it instantly as we don't allow for wild accusations. I'm only letting it stand because maybe, just maybe you'll take that one screenshot and clear everything up with LBSRA.

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and the animal references are

...are you being completely illogical, and as I've said before if you can't disagree politely then don't post at all.

And don't speak for Guru mods or admins again, as you aren't one. As it is, many people refer to GwG for auctions, green weapon pricing, and other things. This thread is here on our forums, so it's not a big deal for anyone to talk about it.

LOL even the mods hate you. I find this most amusing

Edit: Just noticed this: -

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then expect to be temporarily banned as I have warned you enough times and sent enough PMs. This is the last I will ever warn you about this.

Please continue hating us and flaming

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You want an on-topic post? well here's one

I got a run from a LBS "registered" graduate. ABSOLUTELY HANDS DOWN the BEST run I have EVER recieved. and I will ALWAYS look for a "certified" LBS runner for any run that I need done in the future. As a private player of the community and not a moderator or anything I am allowed to say that I will back LBSRA 100%.
~Thanks for the great service guys.

Great, I am glad you are pleased with the run.

eol · Nov 30, 2005, 07:26 PM // 19:26

i am not making insuations it happened to ME first hand i = eye witness = there at the scene of the crime, where is your scrap of proof that i have none this is he said she said aka hearsay didnt know that i would have to submit phorensic eveidence and neither did i know that you guys would casually dismiss me as just a flaimer

lets say i handed in some incriminating screenies what would i have lost my time at the most what would i have wanted an apology what would you have done? kick him? train him some more i dont know those are your affairs but make me go so far as this to get a simple "sorry" you guys are calling my crazy and illogical wow! didnt know there were ppl out there this stuborn

you talk about having a reputation but customer serivice is part of that and when you have complaints that you refuse to adres that reflects badly on you no matter how you spin it telling displeased ppl next time theres a problem take a picture and get out of here isnt exxactly the best solution and it certainly isnt courtious

i as of yet have recieved even a simple apology or admitance that hey "well try and make it better so it doesnt happen again"

the only thing your willing to adhere to is "it will happen again, make sure your ready for it" kind of attitude

The Herbalizer · Nov 30, 2005, 07:28 PM // 19:28

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because you make insinuations and flame people to hell without any scrap of proof to back up what you say maybe? that and you act like you're on some sort fo crusade to save the poor GW population from the evils of the dark and immoral LBRSA

Exactly. I bet he hates the idea of gold all together and thinks everyone should have perfect weapons as it is unfair if only a few do.

He keeps on banging on about his so called screenshots and the LBSRA runner who was so awful but please give us some evidence. As if i claim to have a 15>50 req7 sickle I am sure noone would believe me if I dont have a screenshot or showed someone in-game.

trim · Nov 30, 2005, 07:39 PM // 19:39

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Originally Posted by The Herbalizer

LOL even the mods hate you. I find this most amusing

The mods don't hate anyone there just trying to do there jobs. This thread has had over 400 posts in it in the last few weeks, and there just trying to keep it under control.

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Originally Posted by The Herbalizer

Edit: Just noticed this: -

Please continue hating us and flaming

I don't agree at all with what you'll guys are doing, and it's basically a lost cause arguing about it. The arguing should have been done when the post was started or before LBS had thousands of ectos in his pocket where he felt he could start calling himself one of the most famous and richest player in all of guild wars. I still don't see any problems with someone expressing there views about it as long as they keep it under control.

As for the screenshots. Whens the last time you thought of taking a screen shot when something you disagree with happend in game. I'ts like after someone gets scammed for 100k, and the guy has already logged out. By the time the screen shots take place the crime has already been committed.

Monica Angelina · Nov 30, 2005, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Ah, the joy of running!

I am not affiliated with LSB although I do admire their entreprenurial spirits. If I was more organized and had more time on my hands, I'd do something like it and have fun at it. After all, in the How to Make Money in GW thread, it is listed as one of the ways to start a guild and have OTHER people make money for you!

To the naysayers, I don't know if your beef is with LSB or with the concept of running in general. They do need to be separated. LSB would not exist if there is no need for them. Once someone as gone through the game the second or even 3rd time, what's the point walking through the same environment again and again? A runner here simply help make things progress faster. With LSB, at least you have some form of quality control (perceived or otherwise). Their reputation will be worth more than any gold they make on a single run, and in that, a brand is better than no brand at all.

Again, I'm not affliated with LSB. Although many have told me that I'm a good runner (well, I almost always succeed, maybe that's why?) It isn't hard, it simply is a needed service by some. If it is not for you, move on. If you have a legitimate complaint, register it formally, then move on. BTW, for everyone that has been taken advantage by some scam runner, you ever stop and wonder how many people that have scammed runner out of paying? If only there was a place to complain about that!

dan26ntn · Nov 30, 2005, 07:55 PM // 19:55

I'm not saying the "founders" of this outfit aren't exceptional players nor am I saying anything negative of their honesty . But this is the most ridiculous and gross display of greed and stupidity on the part of the participants that I've ever seen. Most of us average players make these runs for peanuts just because we feel it's reasonable and fair. I run solo to droks from beacons or citadel from copperhammer at least a few times a week for 2.5k per person or so and have never felt that it was worth more than that. This is the kind of thing that starts the ebay gold buying frenzy and KILLs the game economy. Again I'm not so much against the teachers as I am the mind blowingly dumb ppl paying someone 250,000 + gold to teach them how to exploit and trash the delicate balance of the economy. The lunacy of players just never ceases to floor me.

Shen Xi · Nov 30, 2005, 08:00 PM // 20:00

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Originally Posted by eol

i am not making insuations it happened to ME first hand i = eye witness = there at the scene of the crime, where is your scrap of proof that i have none this is he said she said aka hearsay didnt know that i would have to submit phorensic eveidence and neither did i know that you guys would casually dismiss me as just a flaimer

lets say i handed in some incriminating screenies what would i have lost my time at the most what would i have wanted an apology what would you have done? kick him? train him some more i dont know those are your affairs but make me go so far as this to get a simple "sorry" you guys are calling my crazy and illogical wow! didnt know there were ppl out there this stuborn

you talk about having a reputation but customer serivice is part of that and when you have complaints that you refuse to adres that reflects badly on you no matter how you spin it telling displeased ppl next time theres a problem take a picture and get out of here isnt exxactly the best solution and it certainly isnt courtious

i as of yet have recieved even a simple apology or admitance that hey "well try and make it better so it doesnt happen again"

the only thing your willing to adhere to is "it will happen again, make sure your ready for it" kind of attitude

so LBS is to ignore all the people he trusts, all the many satified cusomters, people who trust LBS runner that tey pay up front and listen to you, the one person who has claimed that someone fomr LBSRA lied by saying he/she was a graduate when they were not.... ok then...

not asking for forensic evidence, just asking for a screenie or something mroe than "i am telling the truth, you lot are lying"

why should they apolgise for something which may or may not be true? when all you have to offer is your accusations when you are baltently biased in one direction?

if you actually had some proof then i am sure the person would be dealt with and you would ahev an apology, as it is though, no proof, so why should anyone believe you?

bit like if i said i was makig a trade with you and i said you scammed me and i demand an apology and my money back. i ahve no proof, but on your assumption it doesn't matter!

as for the person who said who would take a screenie afetr the fact of being scammed. lots would! i knowthe first thing i would do would eb take screenies as proof that i ahd been scammed or whatever, then i could report it and help make sure others do not get scammed. how hard is it to press 2 buttons together to get one?

to sue an analogy who would think of getting the license plate fo a car or taking a pic if thye could afetr they had mown someone down, the crime has already happend! yes i realise this si takign an example to the extreme and is stupid but just trying to make a point.

trim · Nov 30, 2005, 08:36 PM // 20:36

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Originally Posted by Shen Xi

as for the person who said who would take a screenie afetr the fact of being scammed. lots would! i knowthe first thing i would do would eb take screenies as proof that i ahd been scammed or whatever, then i could report it and help make sure others do not get scammed. how hard is it to press 2 buttons together to get one?

to sue an analogy who would think of getting the license plate fo a car or taking a pic if thye could afetr they had mown someone down, the crime has already happend! yes i realise this si takign an example to the extreme and is stupid but just trying to make a point.

It's a lot easier said than done. Do you know how quick a scam can take place. A guy can scam you, and if he had half a brain in his head he would log out right after he hit the accept button on the trade menu or whatever action took place. This gives you approximatly less than a second to hit that print screen button. Or you could take screenies before the trade or action even occurred. But how many people do you actually know that are going to take screen shots before every trade or mishap that occurs to them in game.

The majority of people probably wouldn't think twice about hitting that print screen button after a scam has takin place. The people that are knowledgable about scams, and what can be done about preventing others might.

dan26ntn · Nov 30, 2005, 08:43 PM // 20:43

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Originally Posted by Shen Xi

very simple, you cater for one class of clientel, LBS caters for a different class. you get people who are willing to wait and you value your time at a certain amount. LBS runners place more of a premium on their time and cater for people who are willing to pay over the going rate but for a guaranteed good runner.

Bit like you can go to MacDonald's and get a burger there for cheap or you can go to a highclass restaurant and order steak. both are beef, both do the same thing. all depends on what you think is worth it.

OK very good point..still sad at best.

Hanso Togakure · Nov 30, 2005, 08:44 PM // 20:44

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Originally Posted by trim

It's a lot easier said than done. Do you know how quick a scam can take place. A guy can scam you, and if he had half a brain in his head he would log out right after he hit the accept button on the trade menu or whatever action took place.

Uh... when people log off, all that they said doesn't disapear as well.

And to eol, when you show proof, you will be believed; but until then, all we have to do is look at your posts to assume that you have another account and are using this one to flame LBS (24/26posts in this forum flamming us for having a successful business).

Come on children, its just a game...

eol · Nov 30, 2005, 08:45 PM // 20:45

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Originally Posted by Shen Xi

why should they apolgise for something which may or may not be true? when all you have to offer is your accusations when you are baltently biased in one direction?

becuase its the responsible thing to do

and im biased cuase im was wronged why would i remain unbiased?

and phorensic evidence is a screenie

hanso: thank for expressing your paranoia about me

but as i have several times already I WAS DIRECTED HERE BY LBS MEMBERS for the very reason of why i am posting i have no other reason to be here and have a second account just to flame you ty and good night

Monica Angelina · Nov 30, 2005, 08:48 PM // 20:48

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Originally Posted by Hanso Togakur

... Snip...

Come on children, its just a game...

Why yes, children and games do go together. You have just idenitified the problem that no one is willing to admit!

trim · Nov 30, 2005, 08:48 PM // 20:48

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Originally Posted by Hanso Togakur

Uh... when people log off, all that they said doesn't disapear as well.

This is true. But how in the hell could you prove that a runner scammed you. I dont think the guy is going to type in "lol you just got scammed".

gslavik · Nov 30, 2005, 09:25 PM // 21:25

How did you verify that the person was indeed an LBS "registered" graduate?

I think that LBS should keep a regularly updated list (update it at least once in a 24 hour period) of the "enrolled" students in a public space. As for lbsra having a list of graduates, I didn't find one.

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Originally Posted by Yellow_lid

You want an on-topic post? well here's one

I got a run from a LBS "registered" graduate. ABSOLUTELY HANDS DOWN the BEST run I have EVER recieved. and I will ALWAYS look for a "certified" LBS runner for any run that I need done in the future. As a private player of the community and not a moderator or anything I am allowed to say that I will back LBSRA 100%.
~Thanks for the great service guys.

Mindcrime · Nov 30, 2005, 10:40 PM // 22:40

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Originally Posted by eol

secondly i was actually going to purchase a run in thirsty river from an lbs runner a day or so ago im kind of surprised that you guys are linked to gwg forums i thought this site was meant to offer free information for those interested in expanding thier knowledge of gw not charge them, but thats besides the point before i got into the lbs runers group in question he had already picked up a client so i asked the client to tell me if how he does, just being cautious since he was charging quite a bit, anyway about a 10 min later the client wispers me that he died twice from some ranger groups and took his money before the last boss, now i dont know if this is true but he the client wasnt happy i dont recall the exact name of the runner but it was dark something

eol

I'm going to comment your first post on this thread, because I have an answer on what happened on that run, you described. The LBS runner (graduate) was going to run two guys through thirsty river. The payment-method he used was full payment before the last boss (monk).
This payment-method is one of the methods when advertising random in thirsty river with customers that is not familiar with LBS or LBSRA.

Both guys agreed with the payment-method and before the last boss, one of the customers refused to pay and said "he forgot the money" and he didn't agreed to use his armor for tradeback in Augury Rock for the payment for completing mission. The LBS runner refunded the other honest guy's money and then killed himself, so the customer that "forgot the money" had the chance to repair the "mistake".

Once again before the last boss this same customer refused to pay. The LBS runner refunded again the other honest guy and said he can't complete this mission for both customers, because of a possible fishy customer in party. That's the true story.

eol · Nov 30, 2005, 10:59 PM // 22:59

that sounds nothing like the events i have described to you and yes it was before monk boss that he asked for payment but the story in which you are telling has nothing to do with me

now this maybe the case with some other runner but not with the runner i was dealing with (aparently from my inquiries he was a non graduate)

how your scenario has anything to do with my situation i do not understand and do not see how it is relevant unless you are telling me that this is the statment your are posting on behalf of the runner in question i dont even remember his name anymore could you at least tell me which runner described to you this scenario?

if you are for example posting to me what the typical scenario is then what is the point of it?

my problem was what do you guys do when u have a bad runner, your telling me you want a screen shot or to stfu

at the least you could have done is apologize for the blunder and offer another runner but instead i am constantly meeting with your hostilities

Blue Steel · Dec 01, 2005, 12:40 AM // 00:40

I have no idea what people are talking about now. I thought eol's complaint was that he felt that there was some ambiguity between students and certified graduates in their advertising. Did something else happen that I missed in all the flames and posts? Did someone not complete a run and yet not refund the money? Because if that did happen, then there is a valid complaint, and it will be fixed. Have I just missed your entire complaint, eol, in all the crazy grammer and disregard for spelling and punctuation? Because if you are saying someone associated with the Academy victimized you personally in some way, I do take that very seriously.

I will state again that I have complete confidence and trust in the intentions, integrity, and ability of Academy members and graduates. And for those who challenge the Academy membership as making a mistake and needing your help or "protection" making their decisions, I recommend a fun little game: guess what the average age of Guild Wars players in general is, and then take a guess at what the average age and education level of the Academy members are.

gslavik · Dec 01, 2005, 12:59 AM // 00:59

Here are some guesses:
- average Guild Wars player age = 12-15
- average LBS member age = 12-15

Is that supposed to do anything? Are you somehow trying to imply that LBS members are actually High School students?

I think you are a very intelligent person (being able to charge 15 Globs of Ectoplasms for your "service" (don't forget that I am still questioning it)). I also think that you KNOW that the education level of a person doesn't matter as ANYONE can get scammed.

As for eol's no refund runner. Let's say I bought a run from an LBS student/graduate (since there is obviously no price difference in what you say) and I get, well ... scammed. Then I report the said offender which is indeed an LBS member/graduate. What is your course of action then?

Note, I am not trying to say anyone from LBS scams (I really don't care). I am only inquiring as to what your course of action would be in such hypothetical situation.

I would also like to reiterate the fact (if I haven't stated it before) that I fail to see any LBS members at Beacon's Perch district 1 whether they are advertising a run to Droknar's Forge or not. The same is true for Thirsty River, which there used to be some, but not anymore?

To answer the last question I posed to you, simply answer "They are busy with real life at the moment." I guess I answered for you, so you don't have to come up with a very long paragraph about whatever they need to do. I also did it in one sentence.

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Originally Posted by Blue Steel

I have no idea what people are talking about now. I thought eol's complaint was that he felt that there was some ambiguity between students and certified graduates in their advertising. Did something else happen that I missed in all the flames and posts? Did someone not complete a run and yet not refund the money? Because if that did happen, then there is a valid complaint, and it will be fixed. Have I just missed your entire complaint, eol, in all the crazy grammer and disregard for spelling and punctuation? Because if you are saying someone associated with the Academy victimized you personally in some way, I do take that very seriously.

I will state again that I have complete confidence and trust in the intentions, integrity, and ability of Academy members and graduates. And for those who challenge the Academy membership as making a mistake and needing your help or "protection" making their decisions, I recommend a fun little game: guess what the average age of Guild Wars players in general is, and then take a guess at what the average age and education level of the Academy members are.

Blue Steel · Dec 01, 2005, 01:29 AM // 01:29

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Originally Posted by gslavik

Here are some guesses:
- average Guild Wars player age = 12-15
- average LBS member age = 12-15

I think you are pretty close on the average player's age. Try doubling that and you will be a lot closer to the average age of the LBS membership. I'm just suggesting that the people who join the Academy regularly don't need your protection from making their own decisions on where to find new challenges in the game. That's all.

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Originally Posted by gslavik

I also think that you KNOW that the education level of a person doesn't matter as ANYONE can get scammed.

Crime statistics suggest otherwise: that lower education levels are correlated with victimization.

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Originally Posted by gslavik

Let's say I bought a run from an LBS student/graduate (since there is obviously no price difference in what you say) and I get, well ... scammed. Then I report the said offender which is indeed an LBS member/graduate. What is your course of action then?

Note, I am not trying to say anyone from LBS scams (I really don't care). I am only inquiring as to what your course of action would be in such hypothetical situation.

It is a reasonable question and one that I appreciate you qualifying as hypothetical, because it is essentially unthinkable that an LBS member would scam someone. But entertaining the question: If such a thing were to happen and if you could make a showing with screenshots, admissions, or any other competent evidence, I would personally restore the lost money from my own vault, and that person would no longer be a member of the Academy. Their reputation would be destroyed. It is as simple as that.

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Originally Posted by gslavik

I would also like to reiterate the fact (if I haven't stated it before) that I fail to see any LBS members at Beacon's Perch district 1 whether they are advertising a run to Droknar's Forge or not. The same is true for Thirsty River, which there used to be some, but not anymore?

Huh? They might be busy with real life, they might be retired, they might be playing the game, they might be in the Hall of Heroes, they might be somewhere more profitable for themselves, they might be running repeat customers who are contacting them directly or through our forums (www.LBSRA.net), and they may be doing any of a million other things. I have never found in game advertising to be particularly effective, and there are much more profitable places to be than Beacon's Perch. Is it somehow significant in your mind that you haven't seen LBS runners advertising in two specific locations recently?

eol · Dec 01, 2005, 01:30 AM // 01:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Steel

I have no idea what people are talking about now. I thought eol's complaint was that he felt that there was some ambiguity between students and certified graduates in their advertising. Did something else happen that I missed in all the flames and posts? Did someone not complete a run and yet not refund the money? Because if that did happen, then there is a valid complaint, and it will be fixed. Have I just missed your entire complaint, eol, in all the crazy grammer and disregard for spelling and punctuation? Because if you are saying someone associated with the Academy victimized you personally in some way, I do take that very seriously.

I will state again that I have complete confidence and trust in the intentions, integrity, and ability of Academy members and graduates. And for those who challenge the Academy membership as making a mistake and needing your help or "protection" making their decisions, I recommend a fun little game: guess what the average age of Guild Wars players in general is, and then take a guess at what the average age and education level of the Academy members are.

yes lbs i have been wronged by a runner who represented him self as some graduate of a academy this happened already almost a week ago

i am no longer sure of his name only that he claimed to be a graduate or something or other at the time
at a later point in time i saw a duo runers doing the same mission and made inquries about their academy since i doubt there are that many around they told me the runner was not qualified most likly a student and that you guys are based out of gwg. perhaps it was thier fault for directing me here as i now see you have your own forum and arent really part of gwg (which is why i was asking if the mods supported your school saying they belong here)

this is the point in which i began to post here (with bad spelling and grammar)

almost immediatly i was accused of flaiming and making false accusations

im sorry i cant provide the burden of proof but as one honest gammer to another, you guys handled yourselves extremly poorly not everyone is out to get you but honest mistakes will happen somewhere in the insanity of your members attacking me and others left and right i was coralled into being typed as a lbs hater, i have expressed i am not for or against you i only want to know how this happend and whether you will claim responsiblity for it (for which i would only have sought an apology and nothing further any curtosys you would have extened to me at that point would be yours to make, i only implied you should be more polite rather that the members of lbs who also reprrsent you should be more polite)

this is the point where i became biast about your operation and made questions about your whole set up

one bad apple spoils the bunch as they say
at this point i neither care to debate your school your runners or your motivations for lbs, i only sought to find out more about this lbs situation as it seemed i should perhaps report the runner at this time but sadly that window has closed

ther only reason i remain here is becuase it seems there is no other place to voice myself as your personal forum only serves as a request center and at least here there is somewhat of a neutral party present