Curse

Cowsn · Nov 30, 2005, 12:08 AM // 00:08

zOMG, I GRADUATED YESTERDAY!!! w0000t!!!!!111one!11!!!!!

just waitin for LBS's gw to work again, then ive got a Forgerunner Bow customized...w00t.

gslavik · Nov 30, 2005, 12:11 AM // 00:11

While I think that 400k for a "world" tour is too much, that is not my problem. Charging a "tuiton" fee without a guarantee that you will be optimal in the service is the problem, charging 15 globs of ectoplasm is the icing on the "ripoff cake" (tm). You should also urge your students on to graduate as soon as possible, so you can get the other fee, however high it may be and give them the customised forgerunner bow as their diploma.

As for standards, LBS should enforce their standards and not wait for someone to report them. Another thing I would recommend is forcing students to advertise that they are an LBSRA student, that way nobody gets fooled no matter what they claim and they give you free exposure to your questionable (according to me and me only) service (I even question that this is a service).

This is one of the reasons why beta software is popular among companies. It allows them to say "it's buggy" and to get free beta testers. Professional beta testers are paid as much as the developers and are usually as qualified as the developers are in development (they hold equivalent computer science degrees).

LBS, the smart thing would be to charge a tuition but to also offer a "certification" program where you certify runners. The certification will of course be based on your method and your reputation alone. The question changes to what is your reputation worth?

Shen Xi · Nov 30, 2005, 12:29 AM // 00:29

right... so using your university analogies, unis charing tuition fees without a guarantee you'll be good in the subjetc is them ripping off people, correct?

and specifically mentioned in the first post is that it is for knowlege on how to do it and the teaching and doesn't guarantee that you'll be a good runner. no one can guarantee that.

what what other fee would this be? when graduating you can buy a forgerunner bow of LBS customised to his anme for one ecto, the price he bought it at, or purchase one of your own for him to customise.

And how exactly is LBS meant to keep an eye on everyone? stake out Beacons Perch Dis1 for anyone witht he LBS tag and see how they advertise themselves? deluding yourself a tad don't you think? as almighty as LBS is i don't think precognesence is one of his abilities

there already is a certification program, the customised forgerunner bow...

Mindcrime · Nov 30, 2005, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by eol

and yet i have failed to get lbs to acknowledge these FACTS and NECESSATIES
without her speaking of her (i am coming to believe scripted speaches, lbs are you perhaps in the field of politics, a political science major, or a speach writer) and her 10 commandments aka her 1st post about her policies full of loop holes... keep smiling the pressure will only get higher

The ones who know what LBS do for a living (in real life) is smiling right now

masterbeef · Nov 30, 2005, 12:44 AM // 00:44

These posts are getting way too stupid. Oh and eol about wanting a LBS runner. Ok here it is, anybody that knows about LBS and the high service LBS GRADUATES guarantee, will know enough to go to our forums and post for a run there, which only graduates can offer to take. Students will not have an option to take runs from the forums until they graduate. Also, students are not allowed to advertise as LBS certified runners, so when they do pug runs, which is basically all they can do, they must advertise as normal runners, with any price they would like to ask. Frankly, quite a few of LBS prices are rather low and i can get a pug run together charging LBS prices without even mention LBS or anything. Oh and to the guy who thought 400k was too much, someone had a world tour about a week ago and paid 400k or a little more, i'm not too sure, but you can look in our feedback section on our forums for a more accurate account of the run. Oh and toast, you were exactly right when you counted down to eol complaining, so eol i'll give you a countdown from 10 because i'm sure you afk right now, its not as though you monitor this thread 24/7 right? 10.............9............8.........7........... ......6.............5.............4.............3. ..........2............1.......this is where someone posts a mindless, repetitive flame.

Shen Xi · Nov 30, 2005, 12:54 AM // 00:54

maybe cos none of the students advertise as an LBS graduate? you are talking out of your arse yet again, maybe because you suffer from cranial rectal insertion?

students are wlecome to have have their own running businesses as long as they do not advertise as a graduate of the academy. if they do and fail then people are welcome to go point this out on the LBSRA forums.

Also if you can read it's been stated that customers asking for a run on the forums can only be taken by a graduate, not a student. surely that's not too difficult to comprehend?

Guitar Geek · Nov 30, 2005, 02:32 AM // 02:32

Now I am...impressed... by the way many of you are deeply involved in this video game. I have been a student for about a week, passed my forge test and soon to pass my desert mission tests (whenever dream wants to get on so I can capture HB!). Here is what I think of this guild.

My background: I've been playing this game since late august. I became very good at forge runs, as in 90% chance of no deaths, sub 25 minutes. This was pre-update (chaser worms one). Forge paid very well, and I made roughly 2 sets of 15k armor, dyed black, 52 ectos and about 50 shards. Patch came, and my running job seemed destroyed. I then wanted to expand my running "skills" and of course, make more money. After being rejected I realized that it wasn't about the fake money, it was about the challenge of running and about being with a good group of people, helping each other.

Now I will tell you the members of LBS are very nice, helpful and honest. With the help of this guild I have been able to almost flawlessly complete-

Beacons-War camp
War camp-Citadel
Citadel-Copper
Copper-Mines
Mines-Grotto
Elona's reach
Dunes of Despair

Soon to be Thirsty River and eventually any mission required.

Why the 15 ectos may seem like a lot, I admit I had second thought's when I paid my fee, not that they would scam, but was it necessary.

Is it necessary? No. Are you required to join? No. Are you guaranteed to be a great runner? No. This guild does greatly help with advancing your running/mission efficiency, especially the desert and shiver peak’s. Once graduated, you will be in the "loop" of the LBS running "business". Runs will be relayed to you from customers.

I personally do not regret it. It was worth it in my opinion. I have improved greatly in a short amount of time, thanks to the members and the guild’s clever, but efficient way of teaching the runs. Did I become a better runner? I think so.

Now why do people buy clothes based on brand name? Because it is known to be better than x or y brand. It is know to be reliable. It is know you get what you pay for. That is similar to the LBS tag. All it is, is a brand name of a service, that is known to be trustworthy, reliable, and efficient. Why should you join LBS? To be with the better, more honest people of the guild wars spectrum and to share enjoyment of a certain aspect of this game, running.

There is NO REASON to bash this guild. No members that I know have bashed any other guild, or specifically YOU. Yes you have the right to voice your opinion, but is is necessary?

Malice Black · Nov 30, 2005, 03:17 AM // 03:17

im interested in joining <need something to do> do u need to have certain outpost/cities on the map? ive not done alot of exploring with my w/m i have camp rankor/droknar all desert missions/outposts

gslavik · Nov 30, 2005, 05:10 AM // 05:10

As for unis not guaranteeing my skills ... EXACTLY! Do you think that I went to an institution I went to because they have no guarantee? The teaching staff is their guarantee. They are also required to have a Ph.D. to be fully tenured (can't be fired unless they do something real bad). A Ph.D. is a very good guarantee that they know what they are talking about which has been given to them ... get ready ... not by one person, but by a panel of people who ones upon a time sat in front of their panel of distinguished persons who once upon a time sat in that same seat in front of another panel and so the cycle continues.

In this example, you have 1 person saying that you are certified to do this. That person is not even distinguished. To be honest, I though LBS was just a guild who were offering runs through Thirsty River mission for 25k with 4 henchmen. Recently, though, I visited thirsty to try and do the mission by myself and 4 henchmen. Interestingly, I didn't see them advertise. All I saw was some 3 man team advertising for 10k. Thirsty IS doable with 4 henchmen, but anyone can really do it if they have half a brain to actually pay attention to how the game works and not go "see enemy, click enemy, click skills" (there is more to "skills" than just using them of course).

As for the certification. When you want to lifeguard, you are required to pass certain qualifications (being able to swim is one). In LBS parallel it woud be to complete the run from Beacon's Perch to Droknar's Forge. If you fail at your job as a lifeguard due to your inability and use of wrong skills for the job, then whoever said that you could do the job (Lifeguard trainer, who have their own license to train people to become lifeguards), then he "gets the shaft" by someone much higher in the organization food chain than him. If not, then the customers (relatives of the people who drown in the pool) can request monetary damages. Can I request monetary damages for an incompleted run (beyond the refund provided by the person doing the service) from Lady Blue Steel if someone who is a graduate fails the run? Because if they are a graduate then they should not come along a situation during the run which they cannot skillfully complete.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shen Xi

right... so using your university analogies, unis charing tuition fees without a guarantee you'll be good in the subjetc is them ripping off people, correct?

and specifically mentioned in the first post is that it is for knowlege on how to do it and the teaching and doesn't guarantee that you'll be a good runner. no one can guarantee that.

what what other fee would this be? when graduating you can buy a forgerunner bow of LBS customised to his anme for one ecto, the price he bought it at, or purchase one of your own for him to customise.

And how exactly is LBS meant to keep an eye on everyone? stake out Beacons Perch Dis1 for anyone witht he LBS tag and see how they advertise themselves? deluding yourself a tad don't you think? as almighty as LBS is i don't think precognesence is one of his abilities

there already is a certification program, the customised forgerunner bow...

Blue Steel · Nov 30, 2005, 05:53 AM // 05:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by gslavik

A Ph.D. is a very good guarantee that they know what they are talking about which has been given to them ... get ready ... not by one person, but by a panel of people who ones upon a time sat in front of their panel of distinguished persons who once upon a time sat in that same seat in front of another panel and so the cycle continues.

Any guesses how the cycle began? A recognized leader, the resident authority on the topic, offered the first certifications. Do you know anyone more qualified to be certifying people? And this may surprize you, but I don't do it alone! There are panels! There is an admission board just to get in . . .

Quote:

Originally Posted by gslavik

As for the certification. When you want to lifeguard, you are required to pass certain qualifications (being able to swim is one). In LBS parallel it woud be to complete the run from Beacon's Perch to Droknar's Forge. If you fail at your job as a lifeguard due to your inability and use of wrong skills for the job, then whoever said that you could do the job (Lifeguard trainer, who have their own license to train people to become lifeguards), then he "gets the shaft" by someone much higher in the organization food chain than him. If not, then the customers (relatives of the people who drown in the pool) can request monetary damages. Can I request monetary damages for an incompleted run (beyond the refund provided by the person doing the service) from Lady Blue Steel if someone who is a graduate fails the run? Because if they are a graduate then they should not come along a situation during the run which they cannot skillfully complete.

Now you are talking my language, or more specifically "mis-talking" my language. In jurisprudential systems, monetary damages are predicated upon a quantifiable harm and an award by an unbiased fact-finder aimed at making the victim whole. In a wrongful death action, a claim is frequently based on loss of consortium. Has anyone lost consortium as a result of a failed run? I didn't think so . . . In addition, the plaintiff must bear the burden of establishing that a duty was owed, that said duty was breached, that the breach of said duty was both the proximate and actual cause of damages suffered, and must prove the quantity of damages by a preponderance of evidence. And that is assuming you can find a court of law that can exercise both personal and subject matter jurisdiction over a guild wars game.

You are better off making a claim in breach of contract rather than tort, as you would only have to find a competent court and establish an offer, acceptance, consideration, material breach, and damages. And what would your remedy be? That's right: a refund.

Any other questions, gslavik? Like perhaps how did you manage to get yourself so completely pwned just now?

FyrFytr998 · Nov 30, 2005, 06:17 AM // 06:17

Nice one Blue. Words strike just as hard as any fist could. I just don't understand all the hoopla surrounding our little group. We've said time and time again. We're not for everybody. So if you don't like how we do business, then pay us no attention. We don't even have to bump this thread at all anymore. There is no such thing a negative publicity. So, please, keep flaming away. You just bring more people to our cause.

gslavik · Nov 30, 2005, 06:39 AM // 06:39

What makes YOU someone who is an authority on the matter? An ADMISSIONS board that YOU picked out. You are NOT Alan Turing of Droknar's Runs. If you were, EVERYBODY who does those runs would know who you are.

As for damages, my time lost does not qualify as a damage?

Breach of contract, good point, so now I can request addition compensation from the person providing the service and from you due to the person's underqualifications.

I am sure screenshots of the failure would provide enough evidence. Don't forget that the defendant also has the burden of disproving/discrediting my evidence.

As for your latest reply, it is clear that you are into law and I already have made up my mind about people who are interested in becoming lawyers. I hope you work on litigating on behalf of the SCO Group, I hear they pay very well.

Edit: Fyr, it's not you ... it's the person who charged you 15 globs of ectoplasm.

As for marrying her, please do, that way another poor soul won't be hurt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Steel

Any guesses how the cycle began? A recognized leader, the resident authority on the topic, offered the first certifications. Do you know anyone more qualified to be certifying people? And this may surprize you, but I don't do it alone! There are panels! There is an admission board just to get in . . .

Now you are talking my language, or more specifically "mis-talking" my language. In jurisprudential systems, monetary damages are predicated upon a quantifiable harm and an award by an unbiased fact-finder aimed at making the victim whole. In a wrongful death action, a claim is frequently based on loss of consortium. Has anyone lost consortium as a result of a failed run? I didn't think so . . . In addition, the plaintiff must bear the burden of establishing that a duty was owed, that said duty was breached, that the breach of said duty was both the proximate and actual cause of damages suffered, and must prove the quantity of damages by a preponderance of evidence. And that is assuming you can find a court of law that can exercise both personal and subject matter jurisdiction over a guild wars game.

You are better off making a claim in breach of contract rather than tort, as you would only have to find a competent court and establish an offer, acceptance, consideration, material breach, and damages. And what would your remedy be? That's right: a refund.

Any other questions, gslavik? Like perhaps how did you manage to get yourself so completely pwned just now?

lord_shar · Nov 30, 2005, 07:38 AM // 07:38

This thread never ceases to amuse me

Quote:

Originally Posted by gslavik

What makes YOU someone who is an authority on the matter? An ADMISSIONS board that YOU picked out. You are NOT Alan Turing of Droknar's Runs. If you were, EVERYBODY who does those runs would know who you are.

I have no idea who Alan Turing is...
EDIT: NVM, google answered my inquiry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gslavik

As for damages, my time lost does not qualify as a damage?

Nope, unless you get paid to play GW, which in itself might be a breach of the EULA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gslavik

Breach of contract, good point, so now I can request addition compensation from the person providing the service and from you due to the person's underqualifications.

I am sure screenshots of the failure would provide enough evidence. Don't forget that the defendant also has the burden of disproving/discrediting my evidence.

Only the plaintiff has the burden of proof based on what I've read above, at least under American laws (innocent until proven guilty).

Quote:

Originally Posted by gslavik

As for your latest reply, it is clear that you are into law and I already have made up my mind about people who are interested in becoming lawyers. I hope you work on litigating on behalf of the SCO Group, I hear they pay very well.

Not sure how this conclusion was drawn...

Quote:

Originally Posted by gslavik

Edit: Fyr, it's not you ... it's the person who charged you 15 globs of ectoplasm.

As for marrying her, please do, that way another poor soul won't be hurt.

I think a few feathers got ruffled based on this reply.
EDIT: There were plenty of hints/warnings about LBS's real life profession throughout this thread... If you plan on talking or preaching law, you'd better be a real lawyer as well.

AncientPC · Nov 30, 2005, 08:29 AM // 08:29

To the griefers,

There are usually two ends of the spectrum for each product or service. High priced items typically compete in quality of product and service while lower priced items compete in price wars. Then there's everything else in between.

Obviously you could probably get a run from some random guy for much cheaper than LBS (or even for free/tips) but sometimes you find poor quality runners. However with LBS you're guaranteed a good run.

It's like guys buying a $40,000 Rolex vs a $40 Timex watch. They both achieve the same purpose. Who are you to tell buyers how they spend their money or sellers how they should price their goods / services?

Hockster · Nov 30, 2005, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Welcome back indeed.

I'd aslo like to take this chance to thank the clowns for continually bumping this thread and providing endless advertising opportunities. All you've really done is provide many of us with new customers. Most see right through your petty jealousy and rhetorical points. Not that they make any sort of sense.

Cheers to free advertising, because there really is no such thing as bad publicity.

eol · Nov 30, 2005, 06:19 PM // 18:19

*sigh* I am telling you first hand what is happening and i'm not apparently the first nor will I be the last, and excuse me if not everyone screen shots every claim accusation and denial in game

as I was saying I was brought attention to lbs by an lbs runner and I was brought attention to this forum by an lbs runner whether it should be here is another argument all together (not my problem) and whether you guys should exist is another argument as well (not my problem) my problem was with the way you guys represent yourself how you have directed my attention to you (which is obviously in a negative way) clearly I was not charmed by our first meeting and clearly I have been anger by my continuing conversation with you this is my problem

Now excuse me for wanting to investigate this persons claims and posting my experience with said lbs runner

and excuse me for wanted to address certain issues I feel you are being neglectful of no matter the excuse of whether you can "monitor" it or not, I am here as a victim bystander what ever you want to call me

If you can’t handle it then say so and stop dismissing me as another flamer or saying all your guys are great we get it you love your shiny boots

and the animal references are me trying to point out you can deny retort and dismiss everything as much as you want but the only real authority isn’t gwg gw lbs or me its the court of public opinion and those are the outsiders who are either meeting a lbs runner for the first time or those who are reading about them as we speak and that my friend is what I am saying and if you don’t know that phrase then read about it i'm pretty sure its common in most places

edit: you may laugh as you will with the way i type with how i mis spell miss punctuate but you can not stop a reader from ingesting the points i am making, you may say some of my posts are mere accustaions , you may say that some of my points have no validity but at least i do not waste ppls time with posts such as "yawn" "pwned" and "your spelling sucks"

Savio · Nov 30, 2005, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by eol

*sigh* i am telling you first hand what is happening and im not apparently the first nor will i be the last, and excuse me if not everyone screen shots every claim accusation and denial in game

Screenshot the supposed scammer/runner/whatever you want to call it, or don't make accusations. Were it any other thread we'd delete it instantly as we don't allow for wild accusations. I'm only letting it stand because maybe, just maybe you'll take that one screenshot and clear everything up with LBSRA.

Quote:

and the animal references are

...are you being completely illogical, and as I've said before if you can't disagree politely then don't post at all.

And don't speak for Guru mods or admins again, as you aren't one. As it is, many people refer to GwG for auctions, green weapon pricing, and other things. This thread is here on our forums, so it's not a big deal for anyone to talk about it.

eol · Nov 30, 2005, 06:31 PM // 18:31

i used the words "kangaroo court" and "koalas of justice" in reference to a jury of public opinion

how is this an illogical argument?

also i was talking about how a lbs runner directed me to your site as representing his group

excuse me for making the assumption that you guys dont "officially" support them and are neutral to this argument

perhaps i was wrong in not finding this information

should i become able to give substanial evidence in the future i will do so but at the moment i can not, still becuase i am angered does not infer that i am entirly out of line in my argument, if gwg is perhaps in standing with lbs then make it clear and i will understand making any sort of argument will be pointless

dream: before it was deleted is said the the court of public opinion is a kangaroo court

Savio · Nov 30, 2005, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Quote:

how is this an illogical argument?

You used "banna peels" too. The whole... paragraph didn't make sense aside from a short blurb about public opinion.

Quote:

if gwg is perhaps in standing with lbs then make it clear and i will understand making any sort of argument will be pointless

GwG staff is more or less neutral. We are biased against flamers though, and accusing us of standing with LBSRA is another good example of not making a logical argument. If you can't stop for a second and compose a half-decent post without "flaims and trolling until your point is made clear and the koalas of justice give in thier verdict" (because flaims and trolling does not make a clear argument), then expect to be temporarily banned as I have warned you enough times and sent enough PMs. This is the last I will ever warn you about this.

EDIT: See gslavik? At the very least, he/she is being polite about their disagreement. Look at how the other posters disagree and learn how to get your point across clearly.

And for everyone else, keep on topic. There's the Offtopic forum for random chat if you must.

Yellow_lid · Nov 30, 2005, 07:04 PM // 19:04

You want an on-topic post? well here's one

I got a run from a LBS "registered" graduate. ABSOLUTELY HANDS DOWN the BEST run I have EVER recieved. and I will ALWAYS look for a "certified" LBS runner for any run that I need done in the future. As a private player of the community and not a moderator or anything I am allowed to say that I will back LBSRA 100%.
~Thanks for the great service guys.