Curse

November Raine · Nov 16, 2005, 12:22 PM // 12:22

bumpidy

hello everyone what are you all doing?

Mindcrime · Nov 17, 2005, 12:37 AM // 00:37

bump..

www.lbsra.net

-Elita-

RudyNam · Nov 17, 2005, 03:33 AM // 03:33

Yay, I'm poor (5,632g) But i have many of the sheilds and what not, but not the runes, i would like to join, but hey, i'm poor.

samazon · Nov 17, 2005, 07:27 AM // 07:27

toast thats cuz ur gay

Pong · Nov 17, 2005, 02:52 PM // 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by monk muffle

everyone whos came here happens to have so much money lol and also how do we come up with money for the items we need
55k out of 210k for the ectos

I would have to say I agree with what he says. There are tons of people out there that will see this thread and all this hype of being some professional runner. What about the people that have no where close to this amount of gold. I saw something on the guildwars website that said 75% of the people who play this game have less than 20 plat in there game account. Sure, I understand that it will be great to have an excellent shield, sup vigors, attribute quest, etc. to be better runners. But what I dont understand is why you have to charge people 15 ecto. Thats almost 200k at todays rates.

I personally think if you were really running a legit service you wouldn't charge people 15 ectos. I think 5 ectos sounds much more reasonable. I was also wanting to ask question about this running service.

When the 15 ectos are paid who takes them? Does Lady Blue Steel take all the ectos, or are the ectos distributed between Lady Blue Steel and the other officers of the guild. Also, after reading the first post do people in this guild actually work for Lady Blue Steel. For example, say you run a party of people from Beacons Perch down to Droknars Forge does Lady Blue Steel take a cut from what you made for running.

I understand that the people being taught these running builds will end up being half way descent runners. But what I think they dont understand is that they could probably do a search on this forum and find 100 succesful builds for running. Not only to droks but to anywhere in game.

Dont get me wrong or nothing I think its a pretty unique idea, and it seems like a lot of people take the bait. But I think if you were truly trying to help people to be good runners, as well as give them some good advice about the game you wouldn't charge anything. I know its my opinion, but I just dont think its right that one person is getting extremely rich off of this, while they could probably go out and learn the builds themselves.

dreamex2 · Nov 17, 2005, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Hi Pong,

I myself had many of the same questions as you did and I had some of them answered via PM by an LBS officer. So far my understanding of everything is this:

-The Entrance Fee is in place to discourage people who want to abuse the service, it's a large investment (maybe a bit too large now that Ectos have inflated so much) but it gives the runners a certain degree of credibility while their investment shows their dedication to the system and likely 'weeds' out the bad seeds that just want the credibility but none of the responsibilities.
-The Entrance Fee is paid in full to Lady Blue Steel, although s/he (I really would like to know >.>) may or may not decide to reward her members/officers at any given time.
-Once you prove to Lady Blue Steel that you can complete most of the runs and earn the title of 'graduated,' you're free to do whatever you want. You're welcome to stay in LBS (the guild and the community) to offer your services but generally the senior members have priority choice for jobs; meaning that you may or may not get the chance to actually 'work' for LBS even if you remain a member. But they do offer you a channel to try and find work in. Either way, if you decide to go off on your own, you've still got your symbol of graduation

-Lady Blue Steel does not take a cut off any jobs you're working on. While you're in the LBS group, you're encouraged to charge the LBS going rates but you're free to charge whatever it is you want. (key point for me, I like giving out free runs).
-There's a lot of good running builds out there and I've got a lot of great ones that I use already. I can make all the runs that they're doing in a relatively reasonable amount of time with a lot of experience behind me, yet I still want to join their guild. I think a lot of it goes beyond just profits and builds, it's part of a great community of people who uphold a professional standard. It's true that you could get a similar build from somewhere else, but that might not automatically make you a capable runner. Besides, people aren't being forced to join the academy

As for taking the bait... Well, I'm not in it for the money, if I wanted that, I'd go back to PvP. I guess I just want to be part of the community and feel like I fit in with something. This feels like a really good group of people with a determined objective. I applied because I have an honest intent of joining their community, not because I feel that I need more certification as a runner. I hope you understand what I mean

And yes, it is a matter of opinion. If it were up to me, I think that s/he (there it is again!) should also release a less extensive package that just outlines in documents the builds, strategies, theories, maps, and tips while providing none of the in-game support. Charge a less extreme rate and graduate people via the same tests after they've done more practicing on their own.

That's just my opinion though.

Pong · Nov 17, 2005, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamex2

Hi Pong,

-The Entrance Fee is in place to discourage people who want to abuse the service, it's a large investment (maybe a bit too large now that Ectos have inflated so much) but it gives the runners a certain degree of credibility while their investment shows their dedication to the system and likely 'weeds' out the bad seeds that just want the credibility but none of the responsibilities.
That's just my opinion though. I think a lot of it goes beyond just profits and builds, it's part of a great community of people who uphold a professional standard.

I agree with you on some points, and others I would have to say I'm still a little lost on. There are tons of great guilds out there with a great communities you could join. I hope just because this thread is posted up here on one of the better guild wars forums isn't swaying your opinion to thinking this is some great community. In my opinion if it was so great they would take people in on the basis that they are good people, have an awesome attitude, and would be a dedicated member, not by paying 15 ectos (nearly 200k)!!!!!! Note: Always remember who is getting all these ectos. Someone is profiting dearly off of this so called great community.

You also say that it goes beyond just profits and builds. If it goes beyond these 2 things why is there even a 15 ecto charge. If you think that paying 15 ectos is the only way to gain credibility and have dedication to something thats absolutly ridiculous. Weeding out the bad seeds can be done by many other means instead of charging this kind of price.

Your obviously trying to impress someone here, because you are still wanting to get in this guild. If you just looked around a bit im sure you could find a great guild and a great community to be a part of. Maybe you should start a great community on your own, and charge each person who became a part of it 15 ecto. As well, you could tell them about some amazing running build you created, tell them about all these amazing secrets of the game, and also accept only those who are dedicated. Do what it is you want, but I would never want to be part of a community where I had to shell out almost 200k of gold to the leader.

dreamex2 · Nov 17, 2005, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pong

Your obviously trying to impress someone here, because you are still wanting to get in this guild. If you just looked around a bit im sure you could find a great guild and a great community to be a part of. Maybe you should start a great community on your own, and charge each person who became a part of it 15 ecto. As well, you could tell them about some amazing running build you created, tell them about all these amazing secrets of the game, and also accept only those who are dedicated. Do what it is you want, but I would never want to be part of a community where I had to shell out almost 200k of gold to the leader.

While I respect everything you've voiced so far, I just want to make clear that I'm not trying to impress anyone

You're probably right that there are a lot of other ways to weeding out bad seeds, and a lot of other communities I could be a part of, but I suppose I'm just weak and lazy. Every guild I've been in since I've quit PvP has either been really pointless, full of jerks, or wouldn't let me in unless I helped them PvP (which isn't what I wanted anyways). I guess, this just seems like the 'easy' way to get into a good community-based guild. If you have some other suggestions, feel free to make them to me

I could never start a guild, I'm a supporter not a leader. As for the 15 Ecto charge, I'm sure you notice it was originally posted in early September where the Ecto cost was less than 9k apiece. I've had people offer me 100k in game for a griffin build, or even back during first few months of release when I was tweaking a Mo/W solo build and asked for a Mo/Me partner, I was offered 230k for what has now become the commonplace Mo/W solo build. Obviously because I have no desire for wealth from other players (only from monsters or the HoH :P) I've never charged anybody for my information... but I do refuse to help those that don't take the consideration to speak with decent grammar.

I already stated that I feel that the price is a bit steep especially if some people don't need hands-on teaching and would just like to learn the builds. Perhaps you could discuss some other methods of finding quality, dedicated players and maybe they'll consider some alternative packages and policies? I know I'd like to hear them, so even if no one cares... you could humor me

Thank you for the conversation!

R1p70r · Nov 17, 2005, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pong

I agree with you on some points, and others I would have to say I'm still a little lost on. There are tons of great guilds out there with a great communities you could join. I hope just because this thread is posted up here on one of the better guild wars forums isn't swaying your opinion to thinking this is some great community. In my opinion if it was so great they would take people in on the basis that they are good people, have an awesome attitude, and would be a dedicated member, not by paying 15 ectos (nearly 200k)!!!!!! Note: Always remember who is getting all these ectos. Someone is profiting dearly off of this so called great community.

You also say that it goes beyond just profits and builds. If it goes beyond these 2 things why is there even a 15 ecto charge. If you think that paying 15 ectos is the only way to gain credibility and have dedication to something thats absolutly ridiculous. Weeding out the bad seeds can be done by many other means instead of charging this kind of price.

Your obviously trying to impress someone here, because you are still wanting to get in this guild. If you just looked around a bit im sure you could find a great guild and a great community to be a part of. Maybe you should start a great community on your own, and charge each person who became a part of it 15 ecto. As well, you could tell them about some amazing running build you created, tell them about all these amazing secrets of the game, and also accept only those who are dedicated. Do what it is you want, but I would never want to be part of a community where I had to shell out almost 200k of gold to the leader.

Well Pong if LBS taught his builds to just anyone then us runners would go out of business ause everyone would be able to do most runs... the 15 ecto fee is to stop people joining the guild and not taking responability you have to remember that lbs gives alot of his time to this guild and juggiling that with being a lawyer (thats his real life job) can leave very little time for what he wants to do. He charges the 15 ecto as not only a reward for his work but also as a way to stop people joining then getting lbs certified and just scamming people. The 15 ecto does not pay to get in guild but for the lbsra handbook and access to the video's of runs that we offer. If you do not wish to be part of our academy then kindly leave this thread and stop spamming it up with your opinino. I respect you have an opinion but kindly keep it to yourself as everyone must make up his or her own mind about whether or not they want to join.

~R1p70r~

Valdis · Nov 17, 2005, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Since ectos are now 17K at the trader....is the tuition still 15 ectos (150K) or have you modified the ecto requirements to accommodate the price change?

I have all the equipment and the money, im just wondering if the tuition has gone up 50K in 2 months?

R1p70r · Nov 17, 2005, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pong

Your obviously trying to impress someone here, because you are still wanting to get in this guild. If you just looked around a bit im sure you could find a great guild and a great community to be a part of. Maybe you should start a great community on your own, and charge each person who became a part of it 15 ecto. As well, you could tell them about some amazing running build you created, tell them about all these amazing secrets of the game, and also accept only those who are dedicated. Do what it is you want, but I would never want to be part of a community where I had to shell out almost 200k of gold to the leader.

Also i respect that they have done their homework on the guild and made use of the resources available to him/her. This shows they are smart enough to look around and sure as hell hope he/she gets into the academy.

~R1p70r~

R1p70r · Nov 17, 2005, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valdis

Since ectos are now 17K at the trader....is the tuition still 15 ectos (150K) or have you modified the ecto requirements to accommodate the price change?

I have all the equipment and the money, im just wondering if the tuition has gone up 50K in 2 months?

And as far as i know the fee still stands at 15k ectoplasms... sorry.
[Edit] Just checked the official site (www.lbsra.net/forums) and yes 15 ecto is the price standing.[/Edit]

~R1p70r~

Valdis · Nov 17, 2005, 04:37 PM // 16:37

OK, ecto prices will be down soon, I will look into joining then

Thanks

Pong · Nov 17, 2005, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamex2

I already stated that I feel that the price is a bit steep especially if some people don't need hands-on teaching and would just like to learn the builds. Perhaps you could discuss some other methods of finding quality, dedicated players and maybe they'll consider some alternative packages and policies? I know I'd like to hear them, so even if no one cares... you could humor me

Thank you for the conversation!

Well, from what Iv'e heard I can tell you that they have some serious problems if they haven't taken you in already. On most points, you have defended there every move. Hmmm....almost sounds like an LBS member talking under an alternative account name.

I can tell you that it wouldn't take a genius to find a method to hunt down some quality and dedicated members without having to give up ectos. In my opinion, if they wanted to do the paragraph thing that should be good enough. You could learn a lot about a person by a simple paragraph. I think thats an excellent idea on there part. Now on the point for paying for builds. I dont think anyone should pay money to learn a build while there are tons of builds you could find by running a simple search, or just talking to people in game. Yeah, i have realized ecto prices have risen a lot here in the last couple of weeks, but it looks like that 15 ecto price is still up there. I could see them lowering the price down a bit, but i would be surprised if it came down that much. They are making a lot of gold and ecto, and I'm not even going to question them changing any polices on the basis of what i have said. Would you want to give up 15 ecto (200k) per person if you knew you could get. I dont think most people would.

dreamex2 · Nov 17, 2005, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pong

Well, from what Iv'e heard I can tell you that they have some serious problems if they haven't taken you in already. On most points, you have defended there every move. Hmmm....almost sounds like an LBS member talking under an alternative account name.

I will guarantee you that I am not part of LBS nor am I an alt. Depending on the level of proof you require I can do anything from meeting you in game or taking screen shots...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pong

I can tell you that it wouldn't take a genius to find a method to hunt down some quality and dedicated members without having to give up ectos. In my opinion, if they wanted to do the paragraph thing that should be good enough. You could learn a lot about a person by a simple paragraph. I think thats an excellent idea on there part. Now on the point for paying for builds. I dont think anyone should pay money to learn a build while there are tons of builds you could find by running a simple search, or just talking to people in game. Yeah, i have realized ecto prices have risen a lot here in the last couple of weeks, but it looks like that 15 ecto price is still up there. I could see them lowering the price down a bit, but i would be surprised if it came down that much. They are making a lot of gold and ecto, and I'm not even going to question them changing any polices on the basis of what i have said. Would you want to give up 15 ecto (200k) per person if you knew you could get. I dont think most people would.

You're probably right on a few of those points, I'm rather curious myself why they haven't adjusted the enrollment fee despite Ectoplasm having nearly doubled in value since this thread was created. I guess it comes down to a difference in opinion about this whole thing. While I agree that it's not necessary to pay for a build, I wouldn't mind doing it if I felt that I had something to gain. Some others may not see it as such and that's a perfectly valid opinion because there's probably something out there that's equally as good.

The only question I want to pose to you is this, have you seen anyone else offer this type of support, community, and service for free anywhere else on this site or others? I think it's marketed (and well marketed at that) towards those who may feel that they need some solid instruction and merely finding and reading a build isn't enough to help them do some of the things they wanted.

Oh, and of course, there's always idiots like me who throw just throw away money needlessly. I guess there's nothing I can really spend it on and I'm tired of trying to get 'free' enjoyment out of the game XD.

Bottom line: I would like to see them decrease the enrollment in accordance with the Ectoplasm inflation mostly because I don't feel that the economy has inflated overall at the same rate as Ectoplasm has inflated making it a singularity in the growing market. If they did that, I'm sure that they'd get a lot more applications, but it would also display a sort of, consumer-trust type thing where they're showing that they're dedicated to what they offer and care about their customers.

Nonetheless, this has been an awesome conversation, but I'm going to lunch, maybe when I get back we may continue?

Feel free to pm me too!

Mindcrime · Nov 17, 2005, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pong

Hmmm....almost sounds like an LBS member talking under an alternative account name.

dreamex2 is not a member of LBSRA. He has send us an application, but hasnt been accepted yet. dreamex2 is speaking with his own words and isnt using an alternative account name to protect us. We have no reason to hide from answering questions about the academy, positive or negative.

15 ecto is the tuition fee (a moving tuition fee, to describe the current state of the economy market)

The main reason is as statement before to "weed the bad seeds" from entering the academy.
We seek only serious players who are dedicated to play guildwars in a new way, experienced or not. And remember also that we provide a highly quality running-service. Thats why we need this tuition fee to not be swarmed with new students and spend all our time learning the build to others.
To bring balance into the academy in other words.

Quote:

Originally Posted by R1p70r

the 15 ecto fee is to stop people joining the guild...
~R1p70r~

We still encourage new students to join the academy (and the guild).

www.lbsra.net

-Elita-

Pong · Nov 17, 2005, 05:42 PM // 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamex2

The only question I want to pose to you is this, have you seen anyone else offer this type of support, community, and service for free anywhere else on this site or others? I think it's marketed (and well marketed at that) towards those who may feel that they need some solid instruction and merely finding and reading a build isn't enough to help them do some of the things they wanted.

Well, I think that there are tons of guilds out there that could offer this kind of support, community, and service. Most of these guilds I beleive wouldn't try to promote this type of service on a website. Which brings me to my first point, that they are trying to profit from this, and one person in particular seems to be taking in the bulk of these profits. This is the only thing I disagree with. Theres tons of great communites and guilds that would give you this info. for free, but not a lot of them will market it in such a way that this one has. I'm sure I'm fixing to be encountering some LBS members flames so im going to head off for awhile myself.

dreamex2 · Nov 17, 2005, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mindcrime

dreamex2 is not a member of LBSRA. He has send us an application, but hasnt been accepted yet. dreamex2 is speaking with his own words and isnt using an alternative account name to protect us. We have no reason to hide from answering questions about the academy, positive or negative.

Yep, I don't think they really have anything to gain from this anyways

but that heavy emphasis on the 'not' makes me feel like I'll get rejected XD. Just to clear the air, I'm not really 'protecting' them per se, I just share an opinion with some of the reasons that they have things the way they are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pong

Well, I think that there are tons of guilds out there that could offer this kind of support, community, and service. Most of these guilds I beleive wouldn't try to promote this type of service on a website. Which brings me to my first point, that they are trying to profit from this, and one person in particular seems to be taking in the bulk of these profits. This is the only thing I disagree with. Theres tons of great communites and guilds that would give you this info. for free, but not a lot of them will market it in such a way that this one has. I'm sure I'm fixing to be encountering some LBS members flames so im going to head off for awhile myself.

I understand your concern and view 100%, as Ms. Elita stated, the steep entrance fee helps to balance out their applications to a more tolerable level BECAUSE they are marketing it on a public forum. They wouldn't have that kind of problem if they originally kept everything strictly in game.

Now then, for my honest opinion about that matter, here's what I think:

-LBS probably initially started this to make some spare cash on the side.
-The academy grew in popularity and interest, suddenly there's more applicants than he (I'm assuming r1p70r is right on this) can handle so he installs this whole application system.
-The cost was instated/increased to discourage those not serious about the academy from applying (which would only waste everyone's time anyways).
-It has grown to what it is today.

Although I do agree with you that there are probably many communities/guilds out there that would be willing to give the information out for free, I don't know if they would necessarily provide the same quality of service to you, nor could they offer you the same credibility (which is only attained BECAUSE of the marketing done outside of the game).

Another bottom line:

Do I think the enrollment fee is a good idea? Yes.
Do I think everything they're doing is a good idea? Yes.
Do I agree with the 'locked' enrollment fee despite increased inflation? No.
Do I think that everyone will get their money's worth? No.
Do I think that some will? Yes.
Do I think it discourages some potentially great people from joining? Yes.
Do I think that there's a better way to do it? Probably.
Do I think the actions are justifiable? Yes.

PS. I doubt anyone will flame you

We're just having a very good conversation and we've all been nothing but polite and well mannered throughout. It is good to talk about opinions sometimes without one party degenerating into 'attack' mode and destroying whatever interesting discussion might've taken place ^.^

Edit: Corrected Typo.